Sous-Vide Cooking - Let's get down to business!!!

treitz3

I know John Megadeth cooks with an Annova. He's the only other cook on this forum I know of that cooks Sous Vide. I know fo' sho' that he eats some damned good meals. This is without a doubt. No reserves.

This thread is dedicated to cooking Sous Vide. Education for those who know nothing about it. Time and temp for those who may or may not and then expert experience for those who have been there, done that.....finishing off their own Sous Vide experience to a final dish worthy of a king.

I have personally experienced such a great experience with Sous Vide that I have not one - but two Sous Vide Supremes on my countertop for daily use. Many times I will be cooking different meats at the same time, in preparation for meals up to days ahead of when they will be eaten.

I have only eaten one steak in the past 3 or 4 years that tops what I can cook at home. Salmon is sublime, pork is off the charts great and even I am still experimenting.

First off, can I get a roll call of who knows what Sous Vide cooking is and if they have ever tried it? (You probably have at a restaurant but did not know it)....

Tom

PSOVLSK

No clue what you’re talking about, but very interested to follow this thread.

Kex

Okay, I’ll help to kick off the discussion!

I’ve had an Anova for about a year, and although it does work well, and I suppose that it takes some of the guess work out of the results, my wife and I just find it makes cooking too complicated. Too many steps, and, if you do it right the old-fashioned way, it’s not really any better... this is IMHO of course!

I totally understand why some people will have great success with sous-vide, where they had mediocre results before, but I just don’t find that I need it.

Kex

This link is for you, @PSOVLSK (and anyone else with questions)!

WagnerRC

I have a pico brew that has a sous vide mode. I have tried it once and it is an easy cooking method. I prefer smoker or plain charcoal grilling . More options is all good.

treitz3

For those not in the "know"? Sous-vide is nothing more than a French water bath.

In other words, you "cook" your meats/veggies in a bath of water - also in a sealed environment (I.E. a bag with no oxygen in it) and you can cook well below normal safety standards for temps.

The end result is that you can take (for example) a cheap cut of meat and have it not too far off of a Ribeye, NY Strip or a more expensive cut of meat. Case in point....take a cheap chuck steak, right? With SV, one can make that taste and have a texture like that of a flank or NY strip. Even a Prime Rib, if done correctly.

This is unheard of with other cooking techniques.

Some meats can be cooked for as long as 3 days.

Then you finish it off with whatever cooking technique one desires.

I'll give you an example. Take Flank steak, right? Cook it in the SV 48 hours at 131F for extremely tender texture. I mean, cut it with a fork type texture. What you do is dry off all moisture off your Flank steak after SV'ing and add your seasoning. Sear in a hot Cast Iron pan for about 45 seconds each side with perhaps a half a pat of butter and you now have a steak worthy of a $60 plate at a reputable high end restaurant. NO BS!

I know this from experience. From bacon to veggies, one will NOT have any other way to replicate the same texture, flavor and end result (unless you have a personal 5-star professional chef) as I have found SV'ing things. Many times, the end result will make many of your favorite restaurants sub par to your taste palette. This, without going to a cooking school for years, if not decades of trial and error.

Of course, I say this with the understanding that one has passed the point of being able to not burn boiling water. LOL

Tom

ZLTFUL

I sous vide from time to time. Cast iron on the grill outside is my preferred go to though.

But there is nothing like sous vide lamb chops with copious amounts of fresh rosemary, garlic, salt and pepper and then before going into the cast iron, a pat down with some Moroccan seasoning.

tonyb

treitz3 wrote: »

For those not in the "know"? Sous-vide is nothing more than a French water bath.

In other words, you "cook" your meats/veggies in a bath of water - also in a sealed environment (I.E. a bag with no oxygen in it) and you can cook well below normal safety standards for temps.

The end result is that you can take (for example) a cheap cut of meat and have it not too far off of a Ribeye, NY Strip or a more expensive cut of meat. Case in point....take a cheap chuck steak, right? With SV, one can make that taste and have a texture like that of a flank or NY strip. Even a Prime Rib, if done correctly.

Don't get it Tom, why would one want to even start with a cheap cut of meat. If you start with a good prime grass fed piece of meat, what's the purpose then of this technique ? Plus I won't even get into how bad cheap cuts are for you health wise.

I get it that some cheaper cuts can be used for things like tacos and such, but a good steak should start out as a good steak, not a tu rd your trying to make taste better. Know what I'm sayin' ?

Interesting technique though, I can see it's usefulness on certain things. Honestly I haven't done any research on it but I'd be interested to see if the foods retain their nutritional value during this process. Having them basically soaking in water over a period of time one would think much of those nutrients would escape into the water. Same principle as making soup, right ? Just not at as high of a temp.

pitdogg2

Water never touches it Tony. It's vacuum sealed in a bag.

treitz3

tonyb wrote: »

Don't get it Tom, why would one want to even start with a cheap cut of meat. If you start with a good prime grass fed piece of meat, what's the purpose then of this technique ? Plus I won't even get into how bad cheap cuts are for you health wise.

I get it that some cheaper cuts can be used for things like tacos and such, but a good steak should start out as a good steak, not a tu rd your trying to make taste better. Know what I'm sayin' ?

That was just an example. It's not that you would want to use a cheaper cut of meat, it's that you can if you want too. My go to for steaks used to be Ribeye. Now, it's Flank steak. There is a whole lot less fat in Flank but it tastes just as juicy as a Ribeye with SV and the texture can be the exact same...cut it with a fork.

As for the nutrients, I don't think you lose any. The heat isn't up to normal cooking standards and there is nowhere for the nutrients to go. Here's a link to what appears to be a scientific explanation of the nutrient loss when SV'ing versus conventional cooking techniques. You may find this helpful if you are into this kind of stuff...;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5448368/

I recently got into SV'ing my bacon. Always though bacon was bacon was bacon. Man, was I wrong! When you SV thick cut bacon and then fry it off in a pan to sear it? Bacon is transformed to the next level of deliciousness. Tender and flavorful insides with a crispy outside and yes, you can definitely tell the difference. It's out of this world good.

Tom

delkal

A sous vide is a totally different way of cooking things. How done something gets is only do to the max temperature it hits. NOT how long it stays at that temp. Want a perfect medium rare steak? Put a thick steak in at 133 for a couple hours (or leave it in for 4-6 hours), the amount of doneness is the same. It will be perfectly medium rare from one side to the other. Not the bullseye or layered pattern where it is burnt, turning to grey, then a thin band of perfectly medium rare. It is always best to crisp it as fast and hot as you can to crisp it at the end. It adds a lot of flavor and if you do it hot the grey portion of the meat is only 1/8 of an inch in. The rest is the perfect temperature.

But for me this is a weekend thing only. Thick cuts of beef, pork and chicken take at least 2 hours. Then you have to separately crisp it. So it is not convenient when you get home at 6:00. I don't use it for steaks under an inch. Takes too much time and when you crisp it hot a thin steak will have the bullseye pattern. Just cook thin steaks like you always do.

But it is the only way to cook a thick porkchop. No dry overcooked edges. Try it at 145 for 3 hours then crisp

Chicken has been the biggest eureka moment for me. For years the old cookbooks said cook to 170+ and everyone ate dry chicken for generations. The USDA says chicken needs to get to 165 or you will die. They came up with that temperature because at 165 Salmonella dies in one second (so eating something straight off the grill is safe). What they didn't tell you is that chicken is dry and tough at 165 and that salmonella also dies at lower temperatures if you hold it there for a few minutes. Try 152 for boneless skinless Chicken **** for 2 1/2 hours. Put 1 or 2 in separate ziplock bags and then put the bags directly into your refrigerator. You will never buy precooked packaged chicken again. Legs and thighs are tougher so I like to go to 158, cool slightly and crisp hard on your grill.

delkal

Everything you need to know.....

https://www.seriouseats.com/2015/06/...ide-steak.html

https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/...enderloin.html

https://www.seriouseats.com/2015/07/...en-breast.html

And this is the article that started it all. You can sous vide something with a beer cooler. This is how I started and it does work. Sous Vides used to cost $500-1000 and only people in culinary school knew about them. After this article it became more popular and the prices starting dropping. I couldn't believe it when they finally got down to $100. I bet this Christmas will be the one when they go to $50.

https://www.seriouseats.com/2010/04/...vide-hack.html

treitz3

Your links did not work when I tried them, Delkal. For those who want to read about the basics, here are a couple of good links I have saved. Get your read on...

Nice overall link to basics - https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/modernist-cooking-blog/more/what-should-i-sous-vide-first?fbclid=IwAR02A7Fs2GOcYasX6kxARhZ4Gyf6GUZKGyvm0LjNVfs7-h9bYh1woYGlRrs

More detailed information about SV - http://douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html?fbclid=IwAR1uC8CW0fhwyXaXdf05PQYdY5bjVY-FR6oAqsWaCwHQhxge7Q6t6lWI2cg

I do steaks during the week all of the time. When I do my flank, I cut them up into individual pre-cut sections (portion control) and SV for 48 hours at 131F. That way, when I am cooking one meal for the night, I simply drop the bag(s) into the SV and know that they will be ready in two days.

When I do Prime rib, I will place the bag in the SV in the am and head off to work with the SV set at 130F. The Prime Rib will be done anywhere from 8 to 11 hours, so even if I come home late, the cut is ready whenever I am.

This is primarily the reason why I have two SV Supremes on the counter. I'll use one generally for meats and the other one for veggies or different cuts of meat that require a different temperature.



The above photo is what sits on the counter, albeit two of them. Nice enough to not be a distraction or seem out of place in the kitchen. The Annova's may not be as nice but from what I hear, folks love them. I just didn't want a plastic tub or cooler with something sticking out of the top on my counter. That just seems out of place to me.

Tom

tonyb

OK, maybe I misunderstood the concept. It's in a bag, duh.

My only concern would be the BPA in the plastic bags then. If they make those bags without it, golden then in my book. Rock on...

verb

Reading this thread is making me a bit hungry! Makes sense, take something that would ordinarily be, muh, and make it fabulous. Fork cutting flank steak? Wow!

treitz3

Absolutely! The wife and I both love flank steak that you can cut with a fork. I would take my flank steak SV'd over a $60 a plate steakhouse anyday of the week and twice on Tuesday. Simply melt in your mouth goodness.

I'll tell you how easy and quick it is later on today.

Tony, you can use regular ziplock bags (the freezer kind is what I use) or you can use the vacuum sealer. Either one works and is BPA free. The only thing you need to do is make sure there is no air in the bag. Not 100% of it but as much as possible. When I do the ziplock bags on longer cooking times, I will double bag them to prevent any leaks and I will keep the "zipper" part above the water line.

PS, please forgive any typos or weird words, I am typing with Gorilla fingers on a small keyboard phone...

Tom

tonyp063

tonyb wrote: »

OK, maybe I misunderstood the concept. It's in a bag, duh.

My only concern would be the BPA in the plastic bags then. If they make those bags without it, golden then in my book. Rock on...

That's a concern for quite a few folks.
I use the reusable silicone bags with my Anova (got mine on their original kickstarter)

Tom has it right. Flank or skirt done sous vide & seared is notches better than you can believe.
And pork chops done sous vide are a game changer.

polrbehr

I have to ask, has anyone done pork using this method? Either ribs, shoulder, or tenderloin, in that order of curiosity. I've always held to the belief that you can't cook
pork in water first, but the whole idea of doing it in a sealed bag is interesting.

No matter, my OK Joes won't be for sale anytime soon...

Kex

I’ve done the tenderloin. It was certainly delicious, and juicy, but I’ve only done it twice before going back to plain ol’ grilling. All the messing with plastic Ziploc bags & managing the time factor, having to finish them off in a pan with butter after cooking... it was just too much of a schedule constraint... plus, anything tastes brilliant with butter 😂.

Maybe I just lack patience!

It’s not that I wouldn’t recommend it, by any means. It’s just not for me and our household, where I do most of the cooking.

I’lll follow the thread with interest! I’m not set in my ways! 😂

treitz3

You will NEVER have dried out pork using Sous Vide IME. Unless you go well beyond the typical time/temp recommended. I usually do mine at 143/1 to 2 hours, then follow with seasonings and a quick sear. The following chart below I grabbed from a serious eats website page on pork chops...

Texture / Temperature/ Timing Range

Medium-rare: Tender, juicy, and meaty (my favorite) 140°F (60°C) 1 to 4 hours
Medium-well: Quite firm and just starting to dry out 150°F (66°C) 1 to 4 hours
Well-done: Firm, a little dry and tough, but still moist 160°F (71°C) 1 to 4 hours

The one thing about SV, is there is no "exact" time or temp. If it isn't something I have cooked before, what I do is go online and look up what other people usually do theirs at and come up with a time/temp of my own choosing based upon the findings I see online.

I haven't cooked anything besides Carrots (first time trying them) that I have thrown away or disliked. I have since learned that carrots needed a higher temp and more time.

All of my pork chops come from a tenderloin. I get the tenderloins at Sam's Club at about a 2 foot length and cut them up into individual thick cut pork chops, placing two in each bag. Then I'll freeze them and pull them out whenever I want PC's for dinner or lunch. Every once in a while, I will take a 6 to 8" portion and SV as a Tenderloin. If they go in frozen, I just add about 30-45 minutes to the SV time. No biggie.

They always come out juicy as all get up and this is one of the "fool proof" meats that you cannot mess up.....unless you place the temp too high or you leave it in the bath for too long. Meats tend to get "mushy" when you overstay their welcome in the water bath. Even cheap cuts of meat.

With that said, typically the longer you leave the meats in there, the more tender they become. It does not matter with some meats (like Flank) if they stay in the water bath for 2 days. In fact, I always do mine for 2 days, unless I wake up one morning and have a hankerin' for flank steak. Then I'll just heat up the water to the desired temp, place the frozen or partially thawed meat in the SV and forget about it until dinnertime.

With any meat, all you do is cut the bag, drain the juices (unless you want to use them for another purpose), pat dry ALL of the moisture off of the outside of the meat while your CI pan is getting blazing hot. When it's dry as you can get it, add your seasonings and immediately sear for about 45 seconds on each side of the cut and serve.

It's as easy as that.

Once you nail your preferred time/temp for each type of thing you cook (I have all my notes on One Note for time/temp), all you have to worry about is what you want to season it with while in the bag or what you want to season it with when it gets out. Usual working time is less than 20 minutes. Easy Peasy.

Tom

codycatalist

I know of it but never tried it. MIGHT get around to it sometime but I don't mind the time it takes to cook stuff the old fashioned way and comes in handy whenever you can't take your Sous Vide device with you to family's or a friends.

Totally not knocking it at all, it is a cool method and consistent.

delkal

treitz3 wrote: »

Your links did not work when I tried them, Delkal.

Sorry about that. Lets try again.................

Everything you need to know.....

https://seriouseats.com/2015/06/food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-steak.html

https://seriouseats.com/2016/07/food-lab-complete-guide-sous-vide-pork-tenderloin.html

https://seriouseats.com/2015/07/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-breast.html

And this is the article that started it all. You can sous vide something with a beer cooler. This is how I started and it does work. Sous Vides used to cost $500-1000 and only people in culinary school knew about them. After this article it became more popular and the prices starting dropping. I couldn't believe it when they finally got down to $100. I bet this Christmas will be the one when they go to $50.

https://seriouseats.com/2010/04/cook-your-meat-in-a-beer-cooler-the-worlds-best-sous-vide-hack.html

treitz3

Those are all great links and they all worked this time! I actually added them to the notes where I keep all my SV information. Thanks,

Tom

codycatalist

When the price gets right I might jump in.

polrbehr

One of my concerns, especially with the first two pork items I listed, is time and temp. For ribs (either baby back or St Lou), I normally try to get them to 190, for a Boston butt, even higher. Technically overdone, but it takes 4-7 hours to get there on my smoker, assuming temps don't get crazy high or low. Taking it slow breaks down more of the connective tissue inherent in ribs/shoulders, I don't see that happening in a 143 water bath but anything's possible.
Tenderloin probably would be OK, as that can be grilled pretty quickly and is not as dependent on hitting those high temps to get them
tender.

I'm going to be following this thread as well, I love this place!

delkal

polrbehr wrote: »

One of my concerns, especially with the first two pork items I listed, is time and temp. For ribs (either baby back or St Lou), I normally try to get them to 190, for a Boston butt, even higher. Technically overdone, but it takes 4-7 hours to get there on my smoker, assuming temps don't get crazy high or low. Taking it slow breaks down more of the connective tissue inherent in ribs/shoulders, I don't see that happening in a 143 water bath but anything's possible.
Tenderloin probably would be OK, as that can be grilled pretty quickly and is not as dependent on hitting those high temps to get them
tender.

I'm going to be following this thread as well, I love this place!

I doubt ribs or a Boston butt would work well. I did see some recipes where they did a London broil for 12-24 hours and it was tender but I doubt pork would be as good as doing it on a smoker. And it would not have any smoke flavor or the bark.

But a with a tenderloin or thick pork chop it should be superior to anything you tried. Experiment with 145-150 degrees, Sous vide it for a couple hours, take it out and let it cool slightly then give it a fast crisp on your grill. The pork will be moist and might have a slightly pinkish color (not all grey and dry) but it will be safe and very tasty.

In case you are wondering about cooking pork to medium. After generations the USDA officially changed the minimum temperature for pork to 145. It is safe. When was the last time you heard of anyone getting trichinosis from commercially raised pork. Probably not in a generation or two. Not even a recall.

treitz3

@polrbehr - Liquid smoke is the key to getting a head start on the smoking process. Here is a link to doing pork ribs with SV style cooking - https://recipes.anovaculinary.com/recipe/barbecue-ribs

While this is the way many people do SV pork ribs, others will smoke before, SV it to break down the collagen and tenderize the meat and then slap it right back in the smoker. Most just SV it and then finish it off by smoking the traditional way.

Personally, if I were to smoke them, I would just smoke them the traditional way.....low and slow. Sous Vide is not the end all to be all for cooking. It is a great asset to your arsenal of weapons in the kitchen and the outdoors but it is NOT going to be the one cooking tool to dominate or replace what you have mastered using other techniques.

With that said, if I wanted, say, a Korean/Sesame Seed version of pork ribs? Eh, screw the smoker, I'd choose Sous Vide and finish it off on the grill.

I have not tried a pork shoulder or butt yet but I have one sitting in the freezer to try out. I just keep wondering to myself....would Sous Vide improve on an already tender and juicy cut such as this? Who knows....but I'm more than willing to find out.

Tom

kharp1

When you say best steak in 3-4 years, did you mean a steak cooked sous-vide? I realize a steak is a cut, however, its largely taken on a terminology to a style of cooking. I've had several things sous-vide, duck being one that stuck out as "couldn't be better," but, I've never had a steak cooked sous-vide. Just seems more like a roast that way. I've done several steaks in reverse sear, and, though they were great, they reminded me more of slow roasted prime rib (when cooking ribeye) than a steak...regardless of sear. Does that make any sense?

delkal

If you like thick steaks (2 inches+) Sous vide is the only way to go.....If you have the time. The interior is just like a slow cooked medium rare prime rib from one side to the other. Not grey on both sides with a small layer of perfectly cooked in the center. Give it a quick sear and it adds the crispy steak flavor and you know you are eating a steak and not just the center of a roast.

Its a hassle but you can try it with the beer cooler method I posted (with the correct links). Fill up a cooler with 133 degree water (for medium rare), put a steak in a ziplock bag, submerge it in the water till all of the air is out, then seal the bag. Then let it sit for 2 hours periodically adding more hot water to keep it at exactly 133 (that is the hassle part). Then sear it as hot as you can on a grill or cast iron pan.

This is how I started. It didn't take long till I ended up buying an Anova for a little over $100. They should go on sale for Christmas.

tonyp063

Personally, if I were to smoke them, I would just smoke them the traditional way.....low and slow. Sous Vide is not the end all to be all for cooking.

^^^
It's a tool. You use the right tool for the job.
I'm firing up the Weber for a low & slow brisket or rubbed butt.

Pork chop? Sous vide & a rocket hot skillet.

treitz3

kharp1 wrote: »

When you say best steak in 3-4 years, did you mean a steak cooked sous-vide? I realize a steak is a cut, however, its largely taken on a terminology to a style of cooking. I've had several things sous-vide, duck being one that stuck out as "couldn't be better," but, I've never had a steak cooked sous-vide. Just seems more like a roast that way. I've done several steaks in reverse sear, and, though they were great, they reminded me more of slow roasted prime rib (when cooking ribeye) than a steak...regardless of sear. Does that make any sense?

Well, there is a little confusion here. Let me clarify. You had mentioned that I said "best" steak in 3 to 4 years. What I actually said was, "I have only eaten one steak in the past 3 or 4 years that tops what I can cook at home".

While it was not the best steak I have ever had, the sear and flavorings were top notch. The actual rib eye (meat) portion was a tad chewy for me. My SV'd flank steak was much more tender than that one. Not even close. BUT with that said, the sear on that bad boy was off the top awesome....and that "made" the steak for me. You could tell that they had a true professional chef in that kitchen. That sear was to DIE FOR!!! I have not been able to find a way to get that kind of sear at home (yet).

It was as if they used some sort of pizza oven or rocket stove to get the sear/char. THAT was probably the best flavor/sear I have ever eaten but definitely not the best steak.

I d not eat steak out as much as I used too after I got my SV about 3 or 4 years ago, as the ones I get are all sub-par to what I can do myself at home. Including at 4-5 star restaurants (That one was a 5-star Irish restaurant) and $60 a plate or more restaurants. I like to eat my steak, not chew on it like a different kind of beef Jerky. Okay, slight exaggeration there, but once you have gone SV with a steak and nailed your time/temp? It's very hard to go back....I say this after mastering the art of cooking a steak in a CI pan and on the grill.

Tom