just picked up a mint pair of SDA2B's and I'd like to bring them up to date (rebuild the crossovers)
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91rtstealth
Posts: 64
first off...I want to make sure they are B's and not A's...they are 4 ohms and they have 6503 and 6511 mid drivers, sl2000 tweeters, and a pin/blade interconnect cable...that makes them a B, yes?
I purchased them from the original owner (I even have the original boxes)...he said they are SDA2A's, but once I got them home and started taking them apart, I'm fairly certain they are B's...plus there's a random "B" sticker on the backs of them.
ANYWAYS, I've never rebuilt crossovers before but I have replaced capacitors in the ECU's of the few Dodge Stealths i've had/have. I'm assuming it's not overly complicated. I really want to see if it makes THAT much of a difference. I'm very curious. Would ya'll be willing to help me along the way? I want to try it on these and then if it makes a world of difference, I'll also do it to my SDA1B's.
So, can someone help me out with the parts I need to order?
1. Which caps should I use? there seems to be a few debates out there between the various brands.
2. is the TL upgrade a huge and worthwhile upgrade? I my as well replace that one cap while i'm in there. I haven't replaced the tweeters yet, but the RDO198's aren't drastically more expensive than the 194's.
3. polyswitch? ditch it?
Thanks in advance.
I purchased them from the original owner (I even have the original boxes)...he said they are SDA2A's, but once I got them home and started taking them apart, I'm fairly certain they are B's...plus there's a random "B" sticker on the backs of them.
ANYWAYS, I've never rebuilt crossovers before but I have replaced capacitors in the ECU's of the few Dodge Stealths i've had/have. I'm assuming it's not overly complicated. I really want to see if it makes THAT much of a difference. I'm very curious. Would ya'll be willing to help me along the way? I want to try it on these and then if it makes a world of difference, I'll also do it to my SDA1B's.
So, can someone help me out with the parts I need to order?
1. Which caps should I use? there seems to be a few debates out there between the various brands.
2. is the TL upgrade a huge and worthwhile upgrade? I my as well replace that one cap while i'm in there. I haven't replaced the tweeters yet, but the RDO198's aren't drastically more expensive than the 194's.
3. polyswitch? ditch it?
Thanks in advance.
Comments
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Ditch the switch!
Cap selection is usually based on budget.
If you're in there: might as well TL.
Time to consider a dreadnought also. -
The MW's you have listed are correct & pin/blade. But I think the 2b are 6ohm iirc..
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Randy/Maine -
Ditch the switch!
Cap selection is usually based on budget.
If you're in there: might as well TL.
Time to consider a dreadnought also.
I mean....caps can't be terribly expensive. I want the speakers to sound as best as possible (yes, of course that's subjective)....what's the price range between low end-high end....
dreadnought? The only dreadnoughts I'm familiar with are guitars...enlighten me.... -
You measured the resistance, the 2B's are 6 ohm nominal. Do a search here for 2BTL or 4.1TL, same exact crossovers. Sonicap are the preferred caps along with Mills resistors. Sonic Craft carries everything in the exact values required. A set of Gimpod's crossover boards will make the job much easier.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
91rtstealth wrote: »dreadnought? The only dreadnoughts I'm familiar with are guitars...enlighten me....
If you would like to know more about the dreadnaught and other available upgrades please see this page.
http://vr3mods.com/site/mobile?url=http://vr3mods.com/LCSDAUpgrade.php#2549
Have just done upgrades on my 2bs. For just the tl upgrade with sonicaps. Hmm
100 for rdo 198 tweeters
100 for gimpod boards
291 befor tax and shipping for caps and resistors
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O and ya the upgrade is definently worth it. The changes are fairly apparent. I was surprised when my father in law said he could tell a diffrence. He had only listen to them for short periods a handfull of times. Over all they sound much more natural with a wider and deeper soundstage My only gripe is, if you can call it that, is they are much more revealing now and will let u know if your listening to poorly recorded music.Post edited by windstriker on
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windstriker wrote: »91rtstealth wrote: »dreadnought? The only dreadnoughts I'm familiar with are guitars...enlighten me....
If you would like to know more about the dreadnaught and other available upgrades please see this page.
http://vr3mods.com/site/mobile?url=http://vr3mods.com/LCSDAUpgrade.php#2549
Have just done upgrades on my 2bs. For just the tl upgrade with sonicaps. Hmm
100 for rdo 198 tweeters
100 for gimpod boards
291 befor tax and shipping for caps and resistors
what's the advantage of the gimpod boards? I've only heard about these.
are you saying it's 291 for all parts (tweeters, boards, caps, and resisters), or just the electrical components for the crossover and another 200 for the boards and tweeters?
I know guys have mentioned sonicaps, clarity caps, dayton, etc. Are there specific sound characteristics between them?windstriker wrote: »O and ya the upgrade is definently worth it. The changes are fairly apparent. I was surprised when my father in law said he could tell a diffrence. He had only listen to them for short periods a handfull of times. Over all they sound much more natural with a wider and deeper soundstage My only gripe is, if you can call it that, is they are much more revealing now and will let u know if your listening to poorly recorded music.
I love everything about what you just said. My favorite thing about these speakers is the sound stage (and of course how little money they can be had for). My only gripe with both my SDA2's and SDA1's are the mids...I think the mids can be pretty harsh at loud volumes. I'd like to try to remedy that with the mods.
I have the opportunitey to pick up a pair of Vandersteen Model 3 for $500. I'm wondering how these modded Polks would compare. I feel some kind of loyally to Polk at this point and I want to try to give them as much justice as possible (hence the mods)
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windstriker wrote: »91rtstealth wrote: »dreadnought? The only dreadnoughts I'm familiar with are guitars...enlighten me....
If you would like to know more about the dreadnaught and other available upgrades please see this page.
http://vr3mods.com/site/mobile?url=http://vr3mods.com/LCSDAUpgrade.php#2549
Have just done upgrades on my 2bs. For just the tl upgrade with sonicaps. Hmm
100 for rdo 198 tweeters
100 for gimpod boards
291 befor tax and shipping for caps and resistors
also...that link didn't work for me -
You measured the resistance, the 2B's are 6 ohm nominal. Do a search here for 2BTL or 4.1TL, same exact crossovers. Sonicap are the preferred caps along with Mills resistors. Sonic Craft carries everything in the exact values required. A set of Gimpod's crossover boards will make the job much easier.
and I measured 4 ohms at each speakers....to be more specifics
left: 3.6 ohms
right: 4.0 ohms
so what do I have? haha... -
With good quality amplification those will stomp speakers many many times more expensive. @gimpod's boards will make life much easier as the newer film caps will be much larger than to electrolytic's and Mylar caps used from the factory. Gimpod's boards are larger and better built for the larger caps. They're are definitely sounds characteristics between all caps mentioned. The two favored here are Sonicaps (exact values needed) and Clarity cap ( close values not exact ). Do yourself a big favor and do a search and get your read on like @f1nut suggested.Do a search here for 2BTL or 4.1TL, same exact crossovers. Sonicap are the preferred caps along with Mills resistors. Sonic Craft carries everything in the exact values required. A set of Gimpod's crossover boards will make the job much easier.
http://www.gimpod.com/parts2b.html
http://www.gimpod.com/partsp2b.html
Go to this ^^^ when you get ready to build it is a great asset. just hover over parts of the board and it will give you directions on what goes where.
welcome to club Polk
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With good quality amplification those will stomp speakers many many times more expensive. @gimpod's boards will make life much easier as the newer film caps will be much larger than to electrolytic's and Mylar caps used from the factory. Gimpod's boards are larger and better built for the larger caps. They're are definitely sounds characteristics between all caps mentioned. The two favored here are Sonicaps (exact values needed) and Clarity cap ( close values not exact ). Do yourself a big favor and do a search and get your read on like @f1nut suggested.
I have the good amplification covered. I have an Emotiva XPA2 (however, i'm probably selling that, an Adcom GFA555II, and next week I'm getting back my McIntosh MC7270 that has been totally rebuilt (all new caps, etc...it will even come with a 1 year warranty)...my tech is essentially making it "brand new." Sooo...I would like some amazing speakers to go with it.
Would I still be able to make the new caps work with the existing crossover boards, or no?
I will most definitely dig into those links you provided. I would like to order the parts soon, but if I get stuck along the way, will ya'll help me when I run into road blocks? I've never done this before and I would love to learn. I do have experience soldering circuit boards, but I'm a perfectionist and I want to make sure I'm doing these speakers justice.
Lastly, is it any harder/easier to do this mod to my SDA1B's? I'm temped to start with those because I think I like them a little more..haha.. -
91rtstealth wrote: »I have the good amplification covered. I have an Emotiva XPA2 (however, i'm probably selling that, an Adcom GFA555II, and next week I'm getting back my McIntosh MC7270 that has been totally rebuilt (all new caps, etc...it will even come with a 1 year warranty)...my tech is essentially making it "brand new." Sooo...I would like some amazing speakers to go with it.
Would I still be able to make the new caps work with the existing crossover boards, or no?
I will most definitely dig into those links you provided. I would like to order the parts soon, but if I get stuck along the way, will ya'll help me when I run into road blocks? I've never done this before and I would love to learn. I do have experience soldering circuit boards, but I'm a perfectionist and I want to make sure I'm doing these speakers justice.
Lastly, is it any harder/easier to do this mod to my SDA1B's? I'm temped to start with those because I think I like them a little more..haha..
starting you reply BELOW the last quote helps to be able to read your reply greatly and will not put everything in the shaded area
Forget the SDA1B they are second gen and the new boards are for 4th and 5th gen only. SDA1b are TWO board crossover and vastly different.
AS I stated the @gimpod boards are much larger and plenty of real estate to populate the boards without needing to stack and contort the new much larger capacitors. CAN it be done well sure. If you go to the links suggested in the search you will see older new cap boards stacked to the hilt with caps hanging off the sides and needing to add on to the leads the caps come with to make it to the proper holes on the XO. Get your read on BEFORE ordering anything getting into a rush to get'er done well put you to a disadvantage from the start. Relax and take your time and you will be rewarded.
have you done this before? IF you answer no then I double down on the above statement.
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91rtstealth wrote: »I have the good amplification covered. I have an Emotiva XPA2 (however, i'm probably selling that, an Adcom GFA555II, and next week I'm getting back my McIntosh MC7270 that has been totally rebuilt (all new caps, etc...it will even come with a 1 year warranty)...my tech is essentially making it "brand new." Sooo...I would like some amazing speakers to go with it.
Would I still be able to make the new caps work with the existing crossover boards, or no?
I will most definitely dig into those links you provided. I would like to order the parts soon, but if I get stuck along the way, will ya'll help me when I run into road blocks? I've never done this before and I would love to learn. I do have experience soldering circuit boards, but I'm a perfectionist and I want to make sure I'm doing these speakers justice.
Lastly, is it any harder/easier to do this mod to my SDA1B's? I'm temped to start with those because I think I like them a little more..haha..
starting you reply BELOW the last quote helps to be able to read your reply greatly and will not put everything in the shaded area
Forget the SDA1B they are second gen and the new boards are for 4th and 5th gen only. SDA1b are TWO board crossover and vastly different.
AS I stated the @gimpod boards are much larger and plenty of real estate to populate the boards without needing to stack and contort the new much larger capacitors. CAN it be done well sure. If you go to the links suggested in the search you will see older new cap boards stacked to the hilt with caps hanging off the sides and needing to add on to the leads the caps come with to make it to the proper holes on the XO. Get your read on BEFORE ordering anything getting into a rush to get'er done well put you to a disadvantage from the start. Relax and take your time and you will be rewarded.
have you done this before? IF you answer no then I double down on the above statement.
got it...thanks for the advice on using the quote thing....I'm just figuring out how this all works..
so am I able to update my SDA1B's crossovers? I'd like to eventually re-do those as well since I really like them.
I will do the research. I actually just msged gimpod to get some more info about his boards.
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The 291 was just for the resistors and caps. Just google sda upgrade and you will find the page i linked.
As far as the mids go the crossover redo will help with that. You can also put dynamat on the baskets of the drivers which helps keep them from ringing. Befor doing anything do your research there is a laundry list of upgrades. O also google sda handbook it has alot of useful info. -
Reach to @westmassguy he actually sells them for gimpod. Yes you can update them. It is a little more involving just because of the two boards and the way they are Blade/blade interconnect you must be very careful NOT to switch up a wire. I suggest you take detailed pictures of BOTH speakers and their wires going to both boards for reference reasons.
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windstriker wrote: »The 291 was just for the resistors and caps. Just google sda upgrade and you will find the page i linked.
As far as the mids go the crossover redo will help with that. You can also put dynamat on the baskets of the drivers which helps keep them from ringing. Befor doing anything do your research there is a laundry list of upgrades. O also google sda handbook it has alot of useful info.
I actually already did the dyanmat/jb weld thing to my SDA1's, as well as the rdo194 upgrades. I planned on doing the same to my 2's once I start disassembling them, but I'll likely do the TL upgrade to the 2's.Reach to @westmassguy he actually sells them for gimpod. Yes you can update them. It is a little more involving just because of the two boards and the way they are Blade/blade interconnect you must be very careful NOT to switch up a wire. I suggest you take detailed pictures of BOTH speakers and their wires going to both boards for reference reasons.
yeah I assumed the 1's would be a little more challenging, that's why I want to start with the 2's and see what that's like before I jump into the more difficult 1's. -
91rtstealth wrote: »You measured the resistance, the 2B's are 6 ohm nominal. Do a search here for 2BTL or 4.1TL, same exact crossovers. Sonicap are the preferred caps along with Mills resistors. Sonic Craft carries everything in the exact values required. A set of Gimpod's crossover boards will make the job much easier.
and I measured 4 ohms at each speakers....to be more specifics
left: 3.6 ohms
right: 4.0 ohms
so what do I have? haha...
You're measuring resistance, not the nominal impedance, which is 6 ohms.
The harsh sound is from the SL2000 tweeters with their 5dB spike at 13kHz. The RD0 tweeters are much smoother.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
91rtstealth wrote: »You measured the resistance, the 2B's are 6 ohm nominal. Do a search here for 2BTL or 4.1TL, same exact crossovers. Sonicap are the preferred caps along with Mills resistors. Sonic Craft carries everything in the exact values required. A set of Gimpod's crossover boards will make the job much easier.
and I measured 4 ohms at each speakers....to be more specifics
left: 3.6 ohms
right: 4.0 ohms
so what do I have? haha...
You're measuring resistance, not the nominal impedance, which is 6 ohms.
The harsh sound is from the SL2000 tweeters with their 5dB spike at 13kHz. The RD0 tweeters are much smoother.
I don't know the difference between a speakers resistance and nominal impedance.
I still get that harsh sound from my SDA1's and they have rdo194's in them. I'm familiar with the harshness of the sl2000. I'll be getting rid of those asap. I'll probably do the rdo198 in the sda2's. I'm curious to see how different they sound. I don't really like super bright speakers. I like the highs rolled off a bit. I'm a musician...I prefer to keep my hearing. -
If you can remember just how much better the swap from sl2000s to the rd0194s was - you should notice the 198 swap kinda like that much better
They are that much better & what better time to do it.
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Randy/Maine -
boston1450 wrote: »If you can remember just how much better the swap from sl2000s to the rd0194s was - you should notice the 198 swap kinda like that much better They are that much better & what better time to do it.
If i end up doing the full rebuild on my SDA2B's, I'm def gonna do the rdo198 upgrade...however, if I decide to instead rebuild my SDA1B's, I'll probably stick with the rdo194's I have...there's 4 of them and I don't feel like buying 4 more...haha...right now I'm trying to figure out if I should restore the SDA1's or the 2's....I can't afford to do both at the moment... -
I don't know the difference between a speakers resistance and nominal impedance.
Resistance is a measurement of the static components inside the speaker, which you can measure with an ohm meter. Nominal impedance is the average measurement of how much the speaker resists current. The impedance is averaged because it varies with frequency, often by large amounts. You do not have a way to measure impedance.I still get that harsh sound from my SDA1's and they have rdo194's in them.
No doubt, your crossovers need upgrading, but it could also be due to your upstream components including cabling and incoming power.
Do the 2BTL mod first. You'll likely sell the 1B's.
Let me add, doing mods half-assed and with cheap components will result in disappointment. If you're going to do it you've got to go all in.Post edited by F1nut onPolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I don't know the difference between a speakers resistance and nominal impedance.
Resistance is a measurement of the static components inside the speaker, which you can measure with an ohm meter. Nominal impedance is the average measurement of how much the speaker resists current. The impedance is averaged because it varies with frequency, often by large amounts. You do not have a way to measure impedance.I still get that harsh sound from my SDA1's and they have rdo194's in them.
No doubt, your crossovers need upgrading, but it could also be due to your upstream components including cabling and incoming power.
Do the 2BTL mod first. You'll likely sell the 1B's.
Let me add, doing mods half-assed and with cheap components will result in disappointment. If you're going to do it you've got to go all in.
interesting, I didn't know that
....so the fully restored 2b's should sound better than fully restored 1b's? how's that? -
ok...I need some help here....is this the following items that I need if I were to use the gimpod boards, and are the quantities below per EACH SPEAKER or per PAIR:
whatever these are, harnesses for the wires I'm guessing?
2 x (P1 Input) 3 Pin Vertical Pin Header 571-3504291
2 x (P2 Driver Output) 4 Pin Vertical Pin Header 571-3504301
2 x (P3 Tweeter Output) 2 Pin Vertical Pin Header
caps: this is everything I need for the rdo198 TL mod, correct?
2 x 5.8uF (C-5 NOTE: 4.1 TL Mod Only) Sonicap Gen I
2 x 12uF (C3) Sonicap Gen I
6 x 20uF (C1, C2-A, C2-B)
resistors:
2 x 0.1 - 0.5 Ohm (To replace Polyswitch)
2 x 2.7 Ohm (BG)
this is everything I need for both speakers, correct?
on sonic caps website, there's a dropdown option for "precision matching"...what do I select there?
lastly, what are my other options for caps? I've read that some guys use dayton, clarity caps, etc. I'm just curious about the sound characteristics and would like some opinions on whether these sonic caps are really worth that massive price tag.... -
Are the Sonicaps worth it? They were to me, all I have ever used so I may not know any better.2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.
Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
Imagine making politics your entire personality. -
I agree with motorhead.
And unless there is somebody who has compared a dayton crossover and a sonicap crossover its hard to say how much better the sonicaps are.
What i can say is that for me. After having done the upgrade I have been to a few diffrent audio store and my 30 year old speakers outclass anything under a few thousand. They also dont embarress themselves when listening to much much more expensive speakers. And keep in mind i dont have the best equipment runing my sdas.
Honestly you will not truly believe the diffrence the upgrades can do until you have listened to a upgraded pair yourself. I didnt.
One word of advice though make sure your familiar with the preupgrade sound befor upgrade them. -
anonymouse wrote: »On my CRS+ rebuild, I decided Sonicaps were a cheap investment for the high sections. I used Dayton's for the lows. All resistors replaced with Mills. I did not use Gimpod's boards, and it was a bit of a PIA to fit the larger caps, but nothing that a little creativity and a hot glue gun did not address. I used Larry's rings to brace the drivers to the box, and dynamatted the driver baskets.
On a rebuild of another pair of 5B's, I used Dayton throughout, and while they were a vast improvement over the stock caps, they are not as smooth as the Sonicaps in the CRS+.
interesting...I'm tempted to do sonic caps, I just can't drop that kind of money right now (or a while for that matter). I have other priorities at the moment. I really just wanted to bring these speakers back to factory spec or better. hmmmm...
It's funny you mentioned using sonicaps for the highs and daytons for the rest. I was thinking of doing the exactly same thing, because those six sonicaps add up at $32 a piece. I was thinking of using the sonicaps for the two 5.8 uf and the two 12uf....and Daytons or Clarity Caps (haven't priced those yet) for the six 20uf...
question, i'm assuming that:
5.8uf is for the highs
12uf is for the mids
20uf is for the lows
is this correct?
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The 5.8ufs and 12ufs are part of the high-pass/tweeter section. The 20ufs are shunt/bypass caps for the low pass.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
westmassguy wrote: »The 5.8ufs and 12ufs are part of the high-pass/tweeter section. The 20ufs are shunt/bypass caps for the low pass.
ok great..good to know...I'm quite happy with the bass on both my sda's...it's the mids that I find to be a little harsh so maybe the sonicaps will help with that.anonymouse wrote: »I did exactly that... Sonicaps for the 5.8 and 12, and the rest are Dayton's.
cool..I'm really considering doing this. Did you use the stock boards or gimpod's? And would you happen to have pics? -
I would stick with all Sonicaps if you're going that route. Once you get the crossovers rebuilt, listen for a few hundred hours then once they settle in, upgrade your internal wiring....should be a noticeable improvement again.
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Many say that shunt caps don't matter. I strongly disagree.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
