How do you guys like your PS Audio Stellar S300 amps ?

gyosagyosa Posts: 146
edited June 25 in Electronics
Been looking into them ...they seem to get great reviews .
What did y’all replace with the s300 , and are you happy with the decision ?
Happy with the overall sound vs a traditional class AB amp ?
Enough current to drive a 4 ohm load ?
Is it compatible with SDA’s , I know it’s dual mono , but common ground ? - in case I ever use with my 1c’s ?

Think it would compare favorably to my Parasound A21 and B&K EX-442 ?

I’m still looking for another amp for my Salks ....
Not in a huge hurry , the onkyo avr seems to do fine until I decide ... but still want separates....

Thanks !

BK
Parasound A21 , Yamaha wxc-50, PS Audio 4.6 , Polk SDA 1c’s , Sony 42” - bedroom

B&K EX-442 , Yamaha wxc-50 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - pool

PS Audio Stellar S300 ,Yamaha wxc-50 , Salk Supercharged Songtowers
Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - den

Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - patio
Post edited by gyosa on
«134

Comments

  • jdjohnjdjohn Posts: 816
    Hi BK,

    I will let someone else answer the SDA compatibility question. I'm embarrassed to say I don't know the answer.

    Interesting that you mention the B&K EX-442. I went through several power amps in a relatively short period of time, and the EX-442 was one of them. I really liked the EX-442, but then I liked the PS Audio Delta 100 better. And after that, I liked the McCormack DNA-125 even MORE. I stuck with the DNA-125 for quite a while very happily. I still have that amp.

    Eventually, the pre-amp in my rig did not suit me. After some research and soul-searching, I decided to take a chance on PSA's S300 class D power amp with the matching Stellar Gain DAC/pre-amp - there was a special intro price on that combo, with VERY generous trade-in allowance. I have really never looked back...ok, there was that one time...

    I came across a Symphonic Line RG1MK3 power amp that I could not pass up. German-built beast of an amp. I went back-and-forth between this amp and the PSA S300, and kept coming back to the class D.

    To answer your question about a 4-ohm load, yes, the S300 will handle it with ease.

    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator

    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,015
    edited June 26
    So I don’t have the S300, but I do have its counterpart/s the M700’s. I too have the stellar pre along with them and can say I have honestly stopped searching for upgrades in that arena.

    They power my 6ohm Elacs with ease. And to levels that will make my ears bleed if I want them to. I don’t have any issues with break up or thin sound with the class D amplification. They never get hot, they look fantastic and sound even better.

    Great gear for the coin.
    SPEAKERS - ELAC ADANTE AF-61, TOTEM RAINMAKER, SONUS FABER SOLO, DEFINITIVE TECH SM350, MIRAGE OASIS, SONOS PLAY 5 & 1'S, SVS SB16 ULTRA

    POWER - PS AUDIO M700, LINN LK240, MARANTZ SR5013

    PRE/DACS - PS AUDIO STELLAR GAIN, AURALIC VEGA G1

    SOURCE - DENON 2910, SONY CDX355, JVC XM448, REGA P2 (MODDED) ANIA CART, REGA FONO MC, XBOX 1 S, TIVO BOLT

    POWER/WIRES - AQ NIAGARA 5000, AQ HURRICANE HC (2M), AQ MONSOON HC (2M) , AQ COLORADO XLR (2M & 1M) AND RCAs(1M), AQ VICTORIA(1M), ACOUSTIC ZEN SATORI W JUMPERS(3M), ATLAS EOS PC, AQ CARBON COAX, WW STRATUS X3/AURORA X1 PC, AQ CARBON HDMIs

    MISC- OKKI NOKKI RCM, HARMONY ELITE, SONY 75XBR900E
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,839
    gyosa wrote: »
    Is it compatible with SDA’s , I know it’s dual mono , but common ground ? - in case I ever use with my 1c’s ?

    Not sure, but there is this bit from the manual that might be relevant:

    "Black Terminal is not Ground

    Its important to note that the Stellar Amplifier is a fully balanced BTL amplifier. As such the Black terminal is not ground. If connecting the Stellar S300 to a REL Acoustics subwoofer, its important to consult the manufacturer’s service documentation to ensure the S300 is appropriate for the subwoofer."
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,839
    edited June 26
    @gyosa just get a S300, you will love it.

    Speaking from experience, I own one.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • gyosagyosa Posts: 146
    Thanks for the feedback guys !

    Bk
    Parasound A21 , Yamaha wxc-50, PS Audio 4.6 , Polk SDA 1c’s , Sony 42” - bedroom

    B&K EX-442 , Yamaha wxc-50 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - pool

    PS Audio Stellar S300 ,Yamaha wxc-50 , Salk Supercharged Songtowers
    Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - den

    Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - patio
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,839
    Sorry, I realize my commentary on it's performance is subjective and meaningless. But I really do think you will like it.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 20,626
    Everything I have heard or owned from PS Audio has been stellar. :p
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • verbverb Posts: 6,608
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Sorry, I realize my commentary on it's performance is subjective and meaningless. But I really do think you will like it.

    Well thanks Drew! Now you got me looking at em! :wink:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Cary SLP-05 Pre, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable, Marantz SA-14 SACD, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, Marantz CD-1, Marantz AMP-1, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
  • gyosagyosa Posts: 146
    I agree ...
    I bought a PS Audio 4.6 preamp new in the late 80’s - early 90’s to pair with my EX-442 and 1C’s ....
    I’m still using it ... love the passive mode ....

    I’ll keep my eyes open for a lightly used S300 ...
    Anyone know who has good pricing on new ones ?
    No rush ...


    BK

    Everything I have heard or owned from PS Audio has been stellar. :p

    Parasound A21 , Yamaha wxc-50, PS Audio 4.6 , Polk SDA 1c’s , Sony 42” - bedroom

    B&K EX-442 , Yamaha wxc-50 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - pool

    PS Audio Stellar S300 ,Yamaha wxc-50 , Salk Supercharged Songtowers
    Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - den

    Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - patio
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,816
    Everything I have heard or owned from PS Audio has been stellar. :p

    I see what you did there...
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,015
    Underwoodhifi has the best new pricing. Call him for best price. Will not be advertised.
    SPEAKERS - ELAC ADANTE AF-61, TOTEM RAINMAKER, SONUS FABER SOLO, DEFINITIVE TECH SM350, MIRAGE OASIS, SONOS PLAY 5 & 1'S, SVS SB16 ULTRA

    POWER - PS AUDIO M700, LINN LK240, MARANTZ SR5013

    PRE/DACS - PS AUDIO STELLAR GAIN, AURALIC VEGA G1

    SOURCE - DENON 2910, SONY CDX355, JVC XM448, REGA P2 (MODDED) ANIA CART, REGA FONO MC, XBOX 1 S, TIVO BOLT

    POWER/WIRES - AQ NIAGARA 5000, AQ HURRICANE HC (2M), AQ MONSOON HC (2M) , AQ COLORADO XLR (2M & 1M) AND RCAs(1M), AQ VICTORIA(1M), ACOUSTIC ZEN SATORI W JUMPERS(3M), ATLAS EOS PC, AQ CARBON COAX, WW STRATUS X3/AURORA X1 PC, AQ CARBON HDMIs

    MISC- OKKI NOKKI RCM, HARMONY ELITE, SONY 75XBR900E
  • JayCeeJayCee Posts: 436
    edited June 26
    gyosa wrote: »
    Thanks for the feedback guys !

    Bk

    @gyosa, Since your initials are BK just skip the Stellar products and go for the BHK Signature line. You can cross out the "H" in "BHK" and tell everyone it's your personal "BK Signature Preamplifier" and "BK Signature 250 Amplifier". Your choice...say you designed it or, if you prefer, PS Audio created a limited production run in your honor. :D

    d41xkvp6n2x6.jpg

    But seriously, I'm a very happy PS Audio owner and agree with joecoulson....
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Underwoodhifi has the best new pricing. Call him for best price. Will not be advertised.

    Haven't posted but spend time reading on the PS Audio forum. Keep an eye out on their "Marketplace" for quality used gear.

    https://forum.psaudio.com/c/marketplace
    Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, Perfectwave DirectStream Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" Power Conditioner: Core Power Technologies EQUI=CORE 1800 Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends FLAC Streamer: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
  • gyosagyosa Posts: 146
    Thanks JayCee !

    Bk
    Parasound A21 , Yamaha wxc-50, PS Audio 4.6 , Polk SDA 1c’s , Sony 42” - bedroom

    B&K EX-442 , Yamaha wxc-50 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - pool

    PS Audio Stellar S300 ,Yamaha wxc-50 , Salk Supercharged Songtowers
    Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - den

    Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - patio
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,199
    I think the BHK is where I'm heading.
    Main System:
    Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII Upgraded by Rich Brkich Pre
    Butler Audio TBD 2250 Amp
    PS Audio DirectStream DAC and MemoryPlayer Transport
    LSA-1 Statement
    SVS SB4000 & SB2000
    Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC

    Secondary Rig:
    Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
    Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
    Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
    Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
    Analysus Plus Oval

    Backup Gear:
    Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
    Marantz SA-14S1
    Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,015
    BHK and p20’s would be pretty dang sweet.
    SPEAKERS - ELAC ADANTE AF-61, TOTEM RAINMAKER, SONUS FABER SOLO, DEFINITIVE TECH SM350, MIRAGE OASIS, SONOS PLAY 5 & 1'S, SVS SB16 ULTRA

    POWER - PS AUDIO M700, LINN LK240, MARANTZ SR5013

    PRE/DACS - PS AUDIO STELLAR GAIN, AURALIC VEGA G1

    SOURCE - DENON 2910, SONY CDX355, JVC XM448, REGA P2 (MODDED) ANIA CART, REGA FONO MC, XBOX 1 S, TIVO BOLT

    POWER/WIRES - AQ NIAGARA 5000, AQ HURRICANE HC (2M), AQ MONSOON HC (2M) , AQ COLORADO XLR (2M & 1M) AND RCAs(1M), AQ VICTORIA(1M), ACOUSTIC ZEN SATORI W JUMPERS(3M), ATLAS EOS PC, AQ CARBON COAX, WW STRATUS X3/AURORA X1 PC, AQ CARBON HDMIs

    MISC- OKKI NOKKI RCM, HARMONY ELITE, SONY 75XBR900E
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,816
    edited June 27
    In my line of work, BHK means Baby Hamster Kidney cells.
    https://www.atcc.org/Products/All/CCL-10.aspx

    Some vaccines and some of the earlier therapeutic recombinant coagulation factor proteins were (are) produced in BHK cells in culture. To wit:
    Only two marketed recombinant glycoproteins are currently manufactured in these [BHK] cells, Factor VIIa (NovoSeven®) and Factor VIII (Kogenate® and Kovaltry®),

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168165617301918

  • dragon1952dragon1952 Posts: 4,669
    I love mine. I know I've said this before but I like it better than my previous Parasound Halo A21.
    ____________________________
    2 channel - PS Audio Stellar S300 amp, PS Audio DirectStream DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5 running Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC24, Matrix X-SPDIF 2 USB interface, Blackbird SSD dock with 500 GB Samsung 860 EVO, Tom Tutay modded EE Minimax preamp, Furman Elite 15 Pfi power conditioner, Martin Logan Electromotion ESL speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Kimber 4TC speaker wire, Gabriel Gold Reflection V2 IC's, VH Audio power cords, Wireworld USB and HDMI/I2S cables
    Computer - Windows 7/JRiver, Topping D10 DAC, Fostex PMO.4n monitors
  • JayCeeJayCee Posts: 436
    Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, Perfectwave DirectStream Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" Power Conditioner: Core Power Technologies EQUI=CORE 1800 Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends FLAC Streamer: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
  • gyosagyosa Posts: 146
    Thanks JayCee. .
    Spoke to underwood hifi today ...
    Liked what I heard ...
    They have new silver ones for 1k ....free ship
    Need to figure a few things out first , like if it'll do what I need it to do using my AVR's pre outs .... my wife is electronically inept .....
    Need an easy , hassel free on/off for system .....☺

    bk
    Parasound A21 , Yamaha wxc-50, PS Audio 4.6 , Polk SDA 1c’s , Sony 42” - bedroom

    B&K EX-442 , Yamaha wxc-50 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - pool

    PS Audio Stellar S300 ,Yamaha wxc-50 , Salk Supercharged Songtowers
    Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - den

    Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - patio
  • JayCeeJayCee Posts: 436
    gyosa wrote: »
    Thanks JayCee. .
    Spoke to underwood hifi today ...
    Liked what I heard ...
    They have new silver ones for 1k ....free ship
    Need to figure a few things out first , like if it'll do what I need it to do using my AVR's pre outs .... my wife is electronically inept .....
    Need an easy , hassel free on/off for system .....☺

    bk

    The FS thread is $1K used...no brainer for Underdwood; new, good price and full warranty! Totally understand the technology dilemma w/multiple pieces of gear and family members. I have several Logitech Harmony's and always hope for the best when it's in someone else's hands. :neutral:

    Good luck moving forward! Hopefully, the S300 will suit your needs and your wife is on-board w/the decision. Looking forward to a "review" thread...:wink:
    Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, Perfectwave DirectStream Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" Power Conditioner: Core Power Technologies EQUI=CORE 1800 Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends FLAC Streamer: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,900
    Extreme discounters like Underwood are bad for this business and everyone involved, including customers. They destroy retail values which in turn destroys used market value. Either way you’re going to lose that money.

    This isn’t to say don’t jump but more of a commentary of one of my peeves. I had to deal with this crap when I assumed MastersounD. The previous distributor did the same thing and killed resale value - it was obvious when you saw the difference in market values here and across the pond.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,031
    C'mon Skip, what do you expect customers to say, Please charge me more ?

    I agree it may be bad for independent retailers like yourself, but from a customers point of view, they always look for the cheapest price.

    A good example would be Amazon. Not too good for retailers are they, but people flock there for better pricing. Do they care the smaller retailers and brick and mortar stores will go out of business ? Not so much....as long as they get the same things cheaper.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,900
    Did you read what I said tony? I didn’t fault anyone for jumping. However the long term issues remain. You buy it for $1000, you’re going to sell it for $600. Once the price is let out the bag everyone knows and your resale value is shot. You’re going to pay now or later is my only point. You’d be a fool to pay full price when you can get it cheap - duh - but extreme discounters do nothing to benefit the industry.

    This is exactly why you guys complain about not having avenues to demo gear.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,900
    I’m actually shocked he can sell for so low. He must have a special deal with ps audio to still be able to make money.

    Years ago when I first started I had a guy call me up about a Marantz turntable. He was putting me against another dealer and told me what the other dealer was selling for. I told him I couldn’t even get it at that price and he called me a liar. It was an eye opening experience for me.

    None of my thoughts here have any real input on the topic at hand. They highlight a much bigger issue than any singular sale or dealer. It really should have been a separate thread but it hit a nerve I guess.

    To the OP, if this is what you want, I guarantee you won’t find a lower price on a new one. Jump!
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,015
    Free Market
    There will always be folks who want the hand holding only a dealer like yourself can provide. But the industry as a whole changed when BB and Circuit City stopped compensating associates with sales commissions early 2k. The higher end stores (which also sold mid and low end gear to make ends meet) could no longer compete with BB and the like, shutting them down (Tweeter, Hifibuys etc). Now you can't even demo gear in the non-Magnolia BB stores because its all out in the open in a warehouse presentation. Don't get me wrong, I am not comparing the BB customer to the customers you bring in Skip, but they start somewhere, and it's not buying $20k Rosso's that gets them on the hook.
    I personally try and spread some love around by purchasing higher margin items like cables and accessories from local, and also some gear too. But when it comes to a piece like I purchased yesterday, I am not spending an extra $500+ to help someone out. How would I be able to demo that unit anyway without it being on a totally different setup than mine?
    If you sell something these days, you sell an idea and a vision, not products. My cabinetry is far from perfect, but we sell a lot of it because my customers believe in the vision we have set forth.
    Walter may not be doing you a service, but he is feeding the industry products that might not move without his prices, double edge sword.
    SPEAKERS - ELAC ADANTE AF-61, TOTEM RAINMAKER, SONUS FABER SOLO, DEFINITIVE TECH SM350, MIRAGE OASIS, SONOS PLAY 5 & 1'S, SVS SB16 ULTRA

    POWER - PS AUDIO M700, LINN LK240, MARANTZ SR5013

    PRE/DACS - PS AUDIO STELLAR GAIN, AURALIC VEGA G1

    SOURCE - DENON 2910, SONY CDX355, JVC XM448, REGA P2 (MODDED) ANIA CART, REGA FONO MC, XBOX 1 S, TIVO BOLT

    POWER/WIRES - AQ NIAGARA 5000, AQ HURRICANE HC (2M), AQ MONSOON HC (2M) , AQ COLORADO XLR (2M & 1M) AND RCAs(1M), AQ VICTORIA(1M), ACOUSTIC ZEN SATORI W JUMPERS(3M), ATLAS EOS PC, AQ CARBON COAX, WW STRATUS X3/AURORA X1 PC, AQ CARBON HDMIs

    MISC- OKKI NOKKI RCM, HARMONY ELITE, SONY 75XBR900E
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 20,626
    Then there are guys like my that buy nothing new, including cables. If I bought all my gear as either new or demo, I would have a Hello Kitty boombox and a Fisher Price record player...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • gyosagyosa Posts: 146
    I find this discussion interesting .....
    I see both sides ...

    I’m an airline pilot and trust me , people will book a different crappy airline if they can save 5 bucks .....I see it every day.
    Human nature....

    I have no problem paying retail if , as a customer, I get some value out of the additional cost - such as being able to demo.
    Very difficult to demo equipment these days locally - hence the rise of online dealers. Obviously their overhead is nil so they can offer lower prices.

    For what it’s worth , I could purchase direct from PS AUDIO - trade in an old MINT Yamaha R9 receiver ( works perfectly) , that has been sitting unused in my closet for a couple years - with a street value of , what , $100 maybe ? - and get a $500 trade in credit ....
    End result - same price for a S300 ..... $1k

    BK

    Parasound A21 , Yamaha wxc-50, PS Audio 4.6 , Polk SDA 1c’s , Sony 42” - bedroom

    B&K EX-442 , Yamaha wxc-50 , Boston Acoustic voyager 7’s - pool

    PS Audio Stellar S300 ,Yamaha wxc-50 , Salk Supercharged Songtowers
    Sony XBR-A8F 65” OLED - den

    Onkyo TX-nr609 , Polk atrium 7 , Boston acoustic sound ware (4) , Boston acoustic sub , B&W center , Sharp 65” TV - patio
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,900
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Free Market
    There will always be folks who want the hand holding only a dealer like yourself can provide. But the industry as a whole changed when BB and Circuit City stopped compensating associates with sales commissions early 2k. The higher end stores (which also sold mid and low end gear to make ends meet) could no longer compete with BB and the like, shutting them down (Tweeter, Hifibuys etc). Now you can't even demo gear in the non-Magnolia BB stores because its all out in the open in a warehouse presentation. Don't get me wrong, I am not comparing the BB customer to the customers you bring in Skip, but they start somewhere, and it's not buying $20k Rosso's that gets them on the hook.
    I personally try and spread some love around by purchasing higher margin items like cables and accessories from local, and also some gear too. But when it comes to a piece like I purchased yesterday, I am not spending an extra $500+ to help someone out. How would I be able to demo that unit anyway without it being on a totally different setup than mine?
    If you sell something these days, you sell an idea and a vision, not products. My cabinetry is far from perfect, but we sell a lot of it because my customers believe in the vision we have set forth.
    Walter may not be doing you a service, but he is feeding the industry products that might not move without his prices, double edge sword.

    It's the model that is the issue. Dealer sacrifices margin > customer saves money. Customer sells product at a further loss > second owner saves money. The only one who benefits is the current end-user of the product. In this case Underwood AND PS Audio are setting up the market value on the used market so you'd be a fool not to take Underwood's pricing.

    They are just an example. The previous MastersounD distributor used to undercut dealers and constantly sell cheap at already reduced MSRP. When I took over the line I compared US and Euro pre-owned markets and the Euro versions were consistently going for $2-3k more than US versions. I lost several clients who wanted to buy products at the previous distributor discounted pricing and thought my prices were absurd. I decided to maintain brand recognition vs. moving product to make quick bucks. The end result is that secondhand prices have gone up since I became the distributor. Equity is equity and who establishes that is the one in charge. It's not about overcharging, but maintaining value in the product.

    This really is no different than the car industry. Chevy and Ford do massive rebates to move cars while Volkswagen and Toyota only do mild ones if they do them at all. It's one reason Toyota trucks hold their value so well.

    In the end both models work, but IMO extreme discounting will only eliminate competition for mild returns and make demoing gear tougher and tougher in this hobby - the exact opposite of what everyone seems to want.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 20,626
    Both models work for me, as I would never pay 10k for a Pass Labs anything, but 2300, for a 10k retail preamp is a bargain all day long, and better than anything else I could get for that money if I were to buy new.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
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