Four way XLR cable shootout

Clipdat

mantis wrote: »

Remember when a cable is TUNED or EQ'd the intent of the brand is after a certain sound. Technically the ONLY thing a cable can do is TAKE AWAY signal they have NO ability to ADD to the sound. The signal passing through it can only lose frequencies not improve them. The goal with a cable is to preserve it and try it's best to get that signal where it's going.

The challenge for everyone is to figure out what cable is doing it right or to you your right and what cables doesn't work correctly. Without being an engineer and having test equipment to measure the signal coming out of the source and then measuring it at the end of it's path to see if it's been changed in any way will really be the ONLY way to know IF a cable is doing it's job correctly. Now remember correctly is very subjective as the person listening to these cables despite if it's correct or not will judge that cable based on what they want to hear and disregard the measurements.

Thanks for the insight, Dan. I highlighed in bold the part that I think helped answer my question and clarify what is going on. For what it's worth, Cable B is the Audioquest Red River.

RobbyKY

Been following this thread since last year. Santa gave me a shiny new JC-5 and 851N Christmas morning and I wanted to give XLR's a try for my primary system in the media room (Modded 1.2tls with Shotgun speaker cables). All of my other rigs use either MIT or AQ RCA interconnects.

Based a great deal on what had been previously discussed here, I ordered a set of new AQ 1 meter interconnects but went up a step to the MacKenzie versions. Not having a balanced preamp, I've been using the 851N in preamp mode and streaming music off my NAS (Synology) and Spotify for the past few weeks. Although I've been listening to the system pretty much every waking moment since unboxing, it's far from settled down I know but it is starting to warm up. The first few days were so bright as to have myself second guessing the investment.

This Saturday, I turned off the lights and spent a solid 6 hours glued to my seat going through favorite tracks then remembered this thread. I had ordered the Monoprice cables in early December before I even ordered the amp and never opened the package so did a little A/B swap of my own. All the mellowing the system has been going through was immediately lost and some favorites became painful to listen to. I'm not qualified to give accurate descriptions but my ears were not happy. The AQ's went right back in with the system returning to its previous state. Being an overeducated engineer, I had always joked about cable matters but not since my Shotgun investments have a heard such a remarkable difference. I've consumed the whole glass of Kool Aid now for sure.

Anyway, looking to play with a tube preamp next in between the Parasound and Cambridge but not held a tube in my hand for 30 years. Decided to just tiptoe in by ordering a Freya yesterday so as to not break the bank along with a second set of AQ Mackenzie XLR IC's to splice it into the system next week. Will give the OEM tubes a try but probably go ahead and order up a set of EH Gold Pin 6SN7's to start rolling with.

I don't get to chime in much but really appreciate the guidance this forum provides me!!

rooftop59

I picked up a pair of the monoprice for my Cambridge stack, and I agree that the soundstage and 3D imaging are pretty awesome! Thanks again for the review!

Clipdat

Interesting feedback guys, thanks for sharing.

Seems like as always system synergy comes into play and dictates the cables that will work for our room, tastes, budget, music genre, etc.

Regarding the JC-5, I read that Parasound recommends 200 hours at minimum for it to "begin to settle in" with 300 or more ideal to reach it's maximum performance envelope. So, it's possible you are still in it's initial break-in process depending on how long you've had it playing.

verb

rooftop59 wrote: »

I picked up a pair of the monoprice for my Cambridge stack, and I agree that the soundstage and 3D imaging are pretty awesome! Thanks again for the review!

So I was a little hesitant to get into this thread, as it reminded me that Drew loaned some XLR's to me (months ago) that I haven't even tried yet! Shame! Sorry Drew I promise I'll get to em soon!

EndersShadow

I’ve got two sets of Wireworld XLRs sitting waiting for me as well lol

verb

EndersShadow wrote: »

I’ve got two sets of Wireworld XLRs sitting waiting for me as well lol

Oh no! Not from Drew?!

EndersShadow

verb wrote: »

EndersShadow wrote: »

I’ve got two sets of Wireworld XLRs sitting waiting for me as well lol

Oh no! Not from Drew?!

Nope.... I’m the owner just haven’t got em installed lol

aiconn

I didn't think that I'd be needing XLR interconnects any time soon, but things change. With the pickup of a PS Audio SGC DAC/Preamp I found myself looking for a set, and thought of this thread. I gave it another read, and ordered a pair of the Monoprice Premier XLRs to connect the SGC to the inputs of a pair of Quad 12L Active Monitors. With only a few hours on them the soundstage has expanded nicely. I'm able to pick out instruments and voices by location again. Hopefully it will expand vertically as well. Thanks for the review @Clipdat. It was very helpful.

Clipdat

Nice, glad they are working out for you so far! I also have a pair hooked up to powered monitors in the other room.

It seems kinda silly to recommend Monoprice XLRs, but they actually have solid performance, especially for the price.

headrott

I have been using XLR interconnects with a fully balanced system for about 9 years now. I honestly cannot remember what IC cables I started with and all I upgraded through 9 years ago, but will say that I upgraded to MIT Shotgun S3's, and they made a big improvement in detail, soundstage, and clarity. I then upgraded to S1's about 5 or 6 years ago, and the improvement was pushed further. So, even between the same make, models, and sub-models of cable, there can be improvement.

I will say that the differences do have a diminishing return, unless you go to a whole other level within a cable maker, or go to another cable maker, possibly. I am happy with my MIT Shotgun S1's, however. I have no need to upgrade them any time soon. I will say that if you get some, make sure you get the impedence setting correct or your system will sound like trash. I know, because I set the impedence incorrectly.

verb

So Drew, I'm a little embarrassed that the trio of XLR sets you've loaned me have finally made it into the system. I went right to the monoprice cables, per your reviews of the other 2.

Gonna spend some time with em, but the first thing that I liked immediately was the ease of connection! Love the snap in feature of the connectors! Thank you Drew!

Clipdat

Curious to hear about your experiences and if you notice the same difference between the Monoprice and the Red River that I did.

steveinaz

Signal Cables XLR's are very nice as well. Excellent build quality and value priced. I run these from my Benchmark DAC2 DX to my Parasound A21.

audioluvr

I have Wireworld silver eclipse XLR's between my CA 851N and between the pre and amps. The only other cables I have had were the Monoprice Premier. The MP's for the money were good but on the warm side. They'd be good to calm down a system that was a little too bright. The WW' s are kinda bright and very detailed which blended perfectly with my pre and amps.

Seems a lot of the newer equipment are built to be bright because that's what consumers think sounds best initially. Personally I can only hear shattering glass for so long.

jbreezy5

This was a great lesson in identifying diminishing returns. I’m very tempted by the Monoprice XLRs.

Their slightly thinner bass might also mate well with certain speakers that are a little “loose” in that region.

EndersShadow

Honestly, spring for Signal Cable or Cullen Cable.

Not a lot more but better

erniejade

EndersShadow wrote: »

Honestly, spring for Signal Cable or Cullen Cable.

Not a lot more but better

Cullen makes some great stuff for the money. His Crossover Series power cords are a bargain.

Clipdat

I'm evaluating these same XLR cables again, but this time on the Vega G1 to LA4 connection.

displayname

Clipdat wrote: »

I'm evaluating these same XLR cables again, but this time on the Vega G1 to LA4 connection.

Excited for this one!

Clipdat

Also ordered these to try: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WU1ECJC

Joey_V

Sounds like you value imaging most of all.

From what I gathered when I first read your review, I thought the AQ were the easy #1 choice. I agree with @F1nut.

Thanks for penning your thoughts either way. I was able to understand what you had extracted from the listening process.

Clipdat

Joey_V wrote: »

Sounds like you value imaging most of all.

From what I gathered when I first read your review, I thought the AQ were the easy #1 choice. I agree with @F1nut.

Thanks for penning your thoughts either way. I was able to understand what you had extracted from the listening process.

Thank you for your feedback! I agree, I do value imaging the most of all.

This should be interesting to try the Red River in the G1 to LA4 position and see how it does against the lower-priced cables. I just ordered a 1.0m pair of the Red Rivers in order to facilitate this test.

EndersShadow

I’d you are up for spending more on similar priced cables, I’d suggest looking at:

Signal Cable Analog 2 balanced
Kimber Kable PBJ XLR
Cullen Cable Copper XLR

All three are cheaper than the Red Rivers but might sound better.

Clipdat

Nice suggestions! I would love to check all of those out, but I'm not too eager to spend the money to bring them in. Because at the end of all this testing, I'm going to end up with a lot of XLR cables not being used!

EndersShadow

Clipdat wrote: »

Nice suggestions! I would love to check all of those out, but I'm not too eager to spend the money to bring them in. Because at the end of all this testing, I'm going to end up with a lot of XLR cables not being used!

Totally get it . Enjoy your testing!

Clipdat

Per usual, I'm making pretty slow progress on the XLR cable testing, despite having off from work! It always seems like you're going to have a ton of free time when you don't have to work, but then it seems like regular old life & chores takes it's place and you still don't have enough time for all your hobbies.

Anyway, I've tried Monoprice Premier and AQ Red River between LA4 and AHB2 so far. The Monoprice performed admirably, and gave me an uncanny sensation of being able to "hear all the details", even at lower listening levels. However, their bass presence and weight were a little lacking, especially for electronic music. It was just a little too restrained I think, at least in my setup. The detail retrial was excellent though and they'd make for a good cable to use to demonstrate your system to someone who's never heard it before.

Next, I tried the AQ Red Rivers and have stayed with those connected since hearing them. The sound just seemed to have more depth and fluidity to it, like the musical elements were more cohesive. They didn't quite have the almost magnifying glass-like effect on the midrange that the Monoprices had, which contributed toward nice imaging effects and presence. But instead, the AQs seemed to have a bolder tonality and tonal richness, along with slightly more weight in the bass frequencies. I think this generally aligns with what I heard previously from these cables. At the moment, I have no desire to remove them and try something else.

On the Vega G1 to LA4 connection, I first tried Monoprice Premier, and again picked up on some of the performance elements I heard with them in the other position. Namely, there seemed to be this specific area in the middle of the speaker's physical presentation where the majority of the musical information contained within the midrange was originating from. It made for an interesting listen, but ultimately it wasn't engaging me, so I unhooked them after a day or two and haven't had a desire to go back to them in this position.

Next, I went to the Rapco Silver Hogs. Right away it seemed like they had more depth and like the sound was more organic and flowing. Tonally, I have the same problem with them that I mentioned previously. When I listen to jazz piano, it just doesn't sound right. It's like they are adding an unnatural midrange shimmer to everything, and this really doesn't work for piano and honestly ruins my enjoyment of this instrument. Other types of music and sounds aren't as impacted, and they actually sound pretty good for guitar heavy rock, classical, and electronic. But wow, these cables are absolutely not going to be good for any amount of jazz listening. That strange shimmer effect gets old fast.

I'm still waiting on my WBC and 1m pair of Red Rivers, so the last XLRs I have on hand to try on the Vega G1 to LA4 connection are the Kopul Premium Performance 3000 XLRs which I'll hook up next.

Clipdat

I finished my listening with the Kopul XLRs, and have hooked up the WBC Mogami 2534 XLRs to try next.

The Kopuls actually surprised me, because when I previously used them between my old PS Audio stack, I wasn't very impressed. Nothing really stood out about their performance that made me want to keep them connected.

On the G1 to LA4 connection, they seemed to perform to a higher level. Highs were crisp without being offensive, bass energy was taught and clean, and there was only a slight midrange emphasis which caused a small deviation away from neutrality in these frequencies.

Imaging performance was admirable. Some sounds and melodies didn't sound localized to the speakers, and a few tracks startled with me with expansive 3D effects. Again this was somewhat surprising because I hadn't noticed this attribute about them previously.

Out of the Monoprice and the Rapcos, the Kopuls are clearly "better", I wouldn't mind using these for the foreseeable future. Maybe it's something about their "star-quad" construction which set them apart from the previous two cables I tried.

Should be interesting to see how they stack up against the WBCs and the AQ Red Rivers which just arrived today.

jdjohn

The contest should quickly be over now that you have the "World's Best Cables" Seriously, it will be interesting to read your results.

I was given the chance (thanks to Drew) to demo the three original XLR cables back in 2019, but I never posted my results here in the forum. I found my old notes (and PMs with Drew), so thought I’d chime in with my fodder.

The XLR cables I had been using were DIY from Douglas Connections @helipilotdoug , made from Furez FZ162AA cable, and Vampire Wire XLR plugs. My setup at that time was like Drew’s, being the PS Audio Stellar Gain Pre/DAC and S300 power amp. Ok, I’ll jump right in.

I had the Kopuls at the bottom of my list, but again, with the PS Audio stack like Drew had at the time of his original review. Soundstage to me seemed restricted to proximity between the speakers, and the sound was a bit opaque, like a thin veil lays over everything. The overall blend was nice, but just not a lot of dynamics going on, and they were kind of muted. With his current setup of the Benchmark stack, these work out as the best for Drew, so go figure. I wonder if there’s some impedance matching that works better for the Kopuls with the Benchmark stack.

Monoprice was next for me. They have a really nice sound for the price. I got the 3D effect Drew described with nice imaging, but the lack of bass wasn't doing it for me compared to others. My notes (which I had scratched and edited a couple of times) settled on "recessed low-mids", and "lots of detail in upper-mids/low-highs". The latter section in the upper mids and lower highs is where most of the musical content lays, and that was very forward to me, or maybe 'accented' is a better word. Lots of good stuff in there, but at the expense of the rest of the frequency spectrum. Another of my notes said, "detailed lows, but rather lean". I remember a bit of roll-off as well, and a somewhat lack of extension at the frequency extremes. But again, nice imaging in the mid-range, bringing that part of the frequency band forward.

So that leaves the Rapco Silver Hogs as my personal choice of the three. To me, they had good imaging and placement, adding a bit of air around each instrument. In addition, they had the flattest/truest frequency response to me across the spectrum. The bass is there, and there's nice extension in the highs. Like Drew, I found them to be a little 'hot' in gain. My notes said, "lows are strong, but not as detailed, although not muddy". Regarding their 'air', in general, there was a lot of detail coming through, but with the XLR/balanced bump in gain, it makes one wonder if there are artifacts coming through that maybe shouldn't be there. On the one hand, I like lots of detail, but in this case, it can sound a little too raw at higher volumes. At lower volumes, it can be quite nice to hear additional details without the strain, but when cranked-up, it becomes too much, and what I call 'crispy'. I used them for a couple of days after my initial tests, since they were my favorite of the three, and basically had classical music playing in the background for a day or so through them. But later, in order to finish my review, I switched to some pop/rock, and finally got around to female vocals. I should have tried that earlier, since it revealed some brittleness to me in the highs, like the 'shimmer' Drew referred to, which then caused me to put my DIY cables back in, and restore balance to the universe.

In a pinch, I could probably live with either the Monoprice or Rapco, and I think they both have their strengths, depending on the music. IME, most cables tune the sound, which may be beneficial depending on other factors, but I'm guessing most of us are seeking a more neutral playback.

This comparison was really helpful for me, and made me feel more confident about my DIY cables. For me, the DIY Furez cables with Vampire Wire XLR plugs really brought it all together in my system (at that point in time). They tame and control heavy modulations without breaking the music’s spirit, allowing the music to shine-through and be transparent. I was just checking current prices, and it's amazing that the Furez FZ162AA cable is now less than $1/ft. I think Doug must have it on clearance at this point. I'm certain I paid more than that a couple of years ago. The Vampire Wire XLR plugs are $25/pair, so $50 in plugs for making a balanced pair, plus a few more bucks for several feet of good cable.

Clipdat

Thanks Jody for sharing your detailed notes and listening experiences.

Wouldn't this be a whole lot easier if all XLR cables sounded the same?