new to Polks...Just picked up a pair of SDA1B's...to mod or not to mod....
91rtstealth
Posts: 64
Well...first I got a free pair of monitor 5b's..liked them....then Monitor 10b's...really liked them...and now I just got a pair of SDA1B's (for a whopping $100), and I think they are my favorite speakers I own (HPM100, JBL L100, JBL 4425, Kef 103.2). This all happened in the span of about 2 months and now I'm hooked on vintage polks....I still love JBL, but it's hard to beat the value for money on these Polks, and I can't afford JBL L220 or L250's yet.
Anyways, I'm absolutely blown away by these speakers and their humongous sound stage. I've been searching the heck out of this forum trying to learn as much as I can about them. So far i've simply cleaned them up, replaced one blown sl2000 and re-did the grill fabric. I've decided that I'm going to address the magnet issue, dynamat the baskets, and upgrade the tweeters. I just can't decide on whether to do the rdo194 or 198. Yes, I know you have to upgrade the crossovers and all that for the 198, but I don't REALLY know what all that entails, especially in terms of money. I'm tempted to just do the 194 so that I can swap back the sl2000's if I ever feel like mixing things up...but man, it's a tough decision. I'm the kind of the guy that likes to leave things fairly stock, but if the 198 is going to absolutely blow my mind and make a world of difference, I'm tempted to do it.
Thoughts?
also, is the 194 and 198 the exact same physical size? I don't really want to route the cabinets or anything like that.
Anyways, I'm absolutely blown away by these speakers and their humongous sound stage. I've been searching the heck out of this forum trying to learn as much as I can about them. So far i've simply cleaned them up, replaced one blown sl2000 and re-did the grill fabric. I've decided that I'm going to address the magnet issue, dynamat the baskets, and upgrade the tweeters. I just can't decide on whether to do the rdo194 or 198. Yes, I know you have to upgrade the crossovers and all that for the 198, but I don't REALLY know what all that entails, especially in terms of money. I'm tempted to just do the 194 so that I can swap back the sl2000's if I ever feel like mixing things up...but man, it's a tough decision. I'm the kind of the guy that likes to leave things fairly stock, but if the 198 is going to absolutely blow my mind and make a world of difference, I'm tempted to do it.
Thoughts?
also, is the 194 and 198 the exact same physical size? I don't really want to route the cabinets or anything like that.
Comments
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You seem to have done your homework on the upgrades that need to be done. Id say try the rd-0194 you will love them over the sl-2000 tweeter. Then if you decide when your gonna do upgrades Xovers you can use those tweeters in something else if you can use the rd-0198.. What are you powering the SDA's with ? Are you using the IC cord ? to get the true SDA as ment to be... There is info here that will walk you thru the project when doing Xovers upgrades & if you need help-ask away here. Also when opening Vintage Speaker section look to the top of the page-info galore on SDA manuals. Placement info. Welcome to the forum..
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Ive had the sl-2000 tweeters & swap'd out to a rd-0194 drop in. No issues.... My CRS+ speakers I had Xovers done by WMG & they had the sl-2000 in them originally & i did the rd-0194 & when i did the TL upgrade to the Xovers i installed the rd-0198 & no modifications needed... Im not sure but i think the modifications are if the speaker cabinets are with the Peerless tweeter models. I do believe its a easy dremel cut to make fit... Yes the 198 is a better tweeter. But the 194 is way better than the sl-2000 imo..
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Not sure you have seen this. May be helpful https://polksda.com/manuals.shtml..
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The 1b cannot use the RD-0198.
The RD-0194 is a direct drop in replacement and a million times better than the sl2000.
Read this.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/182943/the-tale-of-5-tweeters-sda-tweeter-replacement-guide#latest -
^^^^ thanks. As i stated in 1st post - if you can use rd0198. I have not seen his speakers. Question - Would that make the sda1b a blade/blade IC cable ?..
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boston1450 wrote: »^^^^ thanks. As i stated in 1st post - if you can use rd0198. I have not seen his speakers. Question - Would that make the sda1b a blade/blade IC cable ?
The SDA 1B is a Blade/Blade IC design.
Main System: SDA 1B, Marantz PM8006, Parasound HCA1500, Marantz CD6006, B&O Tx2, Sonos Connect
Office setup: Marantz M-CR611, CNote Speakers
TV Room: Marantz SR5014, Polk TSI200s, TSI100s, Signature S10s, PSW125, TSI CS20, Sonos Connect -
thanks. Thats funny. I was just reading your review on your speakers & amp & you post here. Saw you also have1b's...
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91rtstealth,
If you decide to go through the SDA 1B upgrades, definitely research the forums here as they are extremely insightful. Make sure you look at the stickies since they have all the schematics and upgrade recommendations.
Here are a couple of posts you may find useful:
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/185135/reality-check-sda-1b-crossover-rebuild#latest
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/132677/sda-1b-crossover-mods
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/91991/sda-1b-crossover-partsMain System: SDA 1B, Marantz PM8006, Parasound HCA1500, Marantz CD6006, B&O Tx2, Sonos Connect
Office setup: Marantz M-CR611, CNote Speakers
TV Room: Marantz SR5014, Polk TSI200s, TSI100s, Signature S10s, PSW125, TSI CS20, Sonos Connect -
boston1450 wrote: »thanks. Thats funny. I was just reading your review on your speakers & amp & you post here. Saw you also have1b's.
I ran "down the rabbit hole" with recently doing upgrades on my 1B's followed by upgrade the CD player, upgrade Preamp, upgrade Amp....etc.
Trying to climb out now and enjoy the music for a while.
Main System: SDA 1B, Marantz PM8006, Parasound HCA1500, Marantz CD6006, B&O Tx2, Sonos Connect
Office setup: Marantz M-CR611, CNote Speakers
TV Room: Marantz SR5014, Polk TSI200s, TSI100s, Signature S10s, PSW125, TSI CS20, Sonos Connect -
Remove 4.4uF capacitor in each high-frequency crossover. Replace with 5.8uF capacitor. (5.6uF is easier to source and close enough.)91rtstealth wrote: »I just can't decide on whether to do the rdo194 or 198. Yes, I know you have to upgrade the crossovers and all that for the 198, but I don't REALLY know what all that entails, especially in terms of money.
I'm not saying you don't need to scrap the rest of the caps, just that changing the value of that one cap is all you need for the RD0-198s.
Folks will be along soon to tell you it can't be done. My source is an ancient thread from this forum. Many pages long, and it doesn't get interesting until the second half.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/74946/sda-srs-2-crossover-parts-list/p1 -
I used to own a pair of SDA-1B's way back in 1988, they were my very first SDA's and got me hooked on the technology. I'm now 31 years and fourth pair of Polk SDA's in and still loving them! The 1B's do require a high current amplifier to drive them and like all Polk SDA's MUST BE DRIVEN BY COMMON GROUNDED AMPLIFICATION OR DAMAGE TO THE LOUDSPEAKERS OR AMPLIFIER CAN RESULT
I wound up having to replace my receiver after I got them with a high current one that could drive the low impedance load that they present. My Realistic (remember THEM???) receiver would work just fine, until the volume got turned up and then I would hear a loud *CLACK* from the receiver as the amplifier was disconnected from the signal path by the protection circuitry.
Most receivers, integrated amplifiers and stand alone amplifiers fit into the common grounded category. However Polk realized there were enough exceptions out there to merit the warning that they put on the back of each speaker.
Heed it!
The RDO-194 tweeter is the direct replacement for the SL-2000 and the RDO-198 is the replacement for the SL-3000 tweeter. The latter tweeters are designed for the lower crossover point that the loudspeakers which use them have to the midwoofers. the SL-2000 tweeter could not handle such a low crossover point.
Welcome to the Forum! -
Remove 4.4uF capacitor in each high-frequency crossover. Replace with 5.8uF capacitor. (5.6uF is easier to source and close enough.)91rtstealth wrote: »I just can't decide on whether to do the rdo194 or 198. Yes, I know you have to upgrade the crossovers and all that for the 198, but I don't REALLY know what all that entails, especially in terms of money.
I'm not saying you don't need to scrap the rest of the caps, just that changing the value of that one cap is all you need for the RD0-198s.
Folks will be along soon to tell you it can't be done. My source is an ancient thread from this forum. Many pages long, and it doesn't get interesting until the second half.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/74946/sda-srs-2-crossover-parts-list/p1 -
holy crap this is the most helpful forum I've ever used..I wasn't expecting to get so many answers so quickly...now, to answer some of your questions..
yes, I am using the interconnect cable...(they actually sound quite good without it too, but obviously have a way smaller sound stage). And I good call about the rdo194's..I can always use them in my other speakers if I ever decide to do the upgrade to 198.
As far as what I'm using to run them, you're all going to laugh...right now I'm just using a basic Yamaha receiver in my living room that's about 65 rms. I do have a Marantz 2325 in my bedroom that I'm going to try with it, but I want to make sure my receiver can reliably run below 8 ohms...plus I don't really want my baby out in the living room (I have a roommate). All of my powerful stuff is back in PA where I am from. At some point I want to get a powerful dedicated amp. I've always wanted an old Onkyo Integra M508 (or even a 506 or 504) so I might save up for one of those.
Do ya'll recommend a good budget amp? There has to be something out there. If you can get amazing speakers like this for 100-300, I imagine there's a great amp out there for a reasonable price as well ?
Thanks for all of the links. They were helpful, especially the manuals.
and yes, my speakers is blade blade...and I'm fairly positive they are sda1B's because each 6" driver is a 6509 and it has sl2000 tweeters.
But yeah, considering that I'm only powering these with a cheap Yamaha receiver...I probably haven't even really heard these things yet, and I'm already impressed. I'm going to get the rdo194's and a better amp and see how that goes...once I listen to them for a while, I'll decide if I'm going to do the TL mod.
so...amps?
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I bought--on a whim, used on eBay--an Acurus 200x3 some years ago. It came out of the box only for testng, when I lived at the "old" house and had The Big Boys set up in a 7.0 configuration.
Having moved to a different home, I put the Acurus in place in a 3.0 config "to get by" while I figured out what to do about a "real" audio room. Nearly two years later, there's still no "real" audio room, and the Acurus is driving my modified 1Bs just fine.
Full disclosure: I never crank the music "loud", and the temporary room is probably not much larger than the previous audio room at the "old " house--but goofy-shaped and higher-ceilinged.
Acurus has no speaker-protection circuitry, just like the popular Adcoms of it's time period. Doesn't bother me a bit.
The Acurus A250 is pretty-much the same circuitry as my 200x3, and the newer A200x3, but with two channels instead of having the power supply shared three ways. Slightly more-powerful ratings. Acurus also makes lower-powered amps including a very-slick series of integrateds that must not have sold well--I hardly ever see on come up on eBay.
Beyond that, it's all the usual players. Any of them would be fine IF THEY"RE IN GOOD CONDITION, meaning that all of them really should have all the caps replaced 'cause they're getting long in the tooth, and each has it's own weaknesses such as matched low-level transistors that get flaky after all this time. Ideally, you could measure both DC offset and bias on both (all) channels before purchase to see how far they may have drifted. All of them should be tested for common-groundedness. Some models within the following brands are common-ground, some can be made to be common ground, and some are completely NOT common-ground, and therefore useless with 1Bs.
Adcom
Carver
Soundcraftsmen
B&K
Parasound
DBX (fairly rare.)
Hafler
Rockford (made decent home amps for about fifteen minutes, then dropped 'em in favor of only "car" amplifiers.)
Harman-Kardon
ATI including the ATI-sourced Outlaw amps. ATI builds stuff for other companies, too.
There's some love for Asian brands--same qualifiers (need to be serviced 'cause they're getting elderly)
Sony, Onkyo, etc. have all made amplifiers that folks have said they like. Yamaha is said to be back in the "real" amplifier business again--but their new "real" amps are hugely expensive, and the imposters, while well-reviewed, aren't rated for a 4-ohm load except when the Power Supply Strangulation Switch is set to "low impedance", which kills output. -
Try your Marantz 2325 first if money to buy separates is an issue. It will drive 4 ohm speakers without a problem and is common ground. It's a great sounding, ballzy receiver.
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awesome..thanks for the manual link
and yeah, my Marantz 2325 was fully rebuilt and everything, so it should be fine. I love that thing. The channel separation since the rebuild is amazing. I just don't want to leave it in my living room for a prolonged period of time in case one of my roommates friends decided to sit their drink on it (and receives a death sentence as a result). Regardless, I would like to get into the world of separates anyways. I'm going to keep my eye out for an Onkyo M504 or M508. I remember staring at those at circuit city when I was a little kid and I need to have one at some point in my life. I'm a sucker for meters
And apparently they are great all around amps. -
My friend Dave uses Marantz 2325 as a preamp with a Adcom 555 amplifier to power his massive ADS speakers. They sound great. Lots of amplifiers to choose from. Make sure its a common ground amplifier. Never hurts to ask here-to make sure (i did)..
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boston1450 wrote: »My friend Dave uses Marantz 2325 as a preamp with a Adcom 555 amplifier to power his massive ADS speakers. They sound great. Lots of amplifiers to choose from. Make sure its a common ground amplifier. Never hurts to ask here-to make sure (i did)
cool...yeah I love my 2325...it sounds and looks beautiful. I'm tempted to grab one of these Adcom 555's, but the fact that there's no protection circuit scares me... -
91rtstealth - nice name! You on 3Si?
my 3.1TLs
I will fix your shifted magnets for free. -
91rtstealth - nice name! You on 3Si?
yup..same user name....haha...been on there for years. I've had my Stealth since 2002 and my dad bought it brand new in 1991. And of course, it's a big red shiny stereo on wheels. -
what do you guys think about these Yamaha M series amps...m70 and m80...they look cool, but any experience with their sound and reliability?
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91rtstealth wrote: »what do you guys think about these Yamaha M series amps...m70 and m80...they look cool, but any experience with their sound and reliability?
Very long in the tooth and desperately in need of a complete rebuild. -
What's your budget?Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
What's your budget?
honestly, I'd like to spent $1,000ish max, but I love getting a deal...I got the speakers for $100 and they cleaned up super nice. I'm about $30 in for speaker grill fabric and I happened to have an sl2000 laying around for the bad tweeter....and they are minty fresh for $100+$30 in parts thus far. I'm going to order 4 rdo194's, some dynamat, jb weld, and maybe spikes. So...i'm still under $500 for sonic magic...and that makes me happy
if I can get some super gnarly amp for $500, i'll search the earth for that.
I really love the look (i'm vein) of the Onkyo M504 (I remember going to circuit city with my dad many many times when I was 6-7 years old and watching those meters bounce around...it left a big impression on me...I need one of those)...BUT, I'll forgo my vanity to get what really matters..sound...however, if I can get something beautiful both sonically and physically for under or around $1,000, that would be groovy...
thoughts?
I really want a McIntosh but...damn..they cost too much for me at this point in my life...
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91rtstealth wrote: »
Sweet! I'm the same username there too.91rtstealth wrote: »what do you guys think about these Yamaha M series amps...m70 and m80...they look cool, but any experience with their sound and reliability?
I have a C70/M70 and a CX-600U/MX-600U. They are awesome when they work but they are time bombs, neither set of mine works any more. Both in the garage (next to my 3.7L 6G74 pampena/merkel stroked longblock) waiting for me to fix them. The glue is corrosive and the components fail - not too hard to fix. If you can find a pair that's been rebuilt, that would be the safest bet.
McIntosh is certainly nice but not cheap ... I paid more for my McIntosh MC7300 than I paid for either of my Stealths.
my 3.1TLs
I will fix your shifted magnets for free. -
91rtstealth wrote: »
Sweet! I'm the same username there too.91rtstealth wrote: »what do you guys think about these Yamaha M series amps...m70 and m80...they look cool, but any experience with their sound and reliability?
I have a C70/M70 and a CX-600U/MX-600U. They are awesome when they work but they are time bombs, neither set of mine works any more. Both in the garage (next to my 3.7L 6G74 pampena/merkel stroked longblock) waiting for me to fix them. The glue is corrosive and the components fail - not too hard to fix. If you can find a pair that's been rebuilt, that would be the safest bet.
McIntosh is certainly nice but not cheap ... I paid more for my McIntosh MC7300 than I paid for either of my Stealths.
hmmm...i'm tempted to get the yamaha cuz apparently they sound great and look great too...and there's a guy in Florida that is known for rebuilding them/working on them, and I live in FL so if I can get a rebuilt one from him that would be nice....
but yeah, McIntosh is crazy expensive.
here's a small list of amps I've come up with from searching these forums...
Adcom 555
Parasound HCA-1500A
Parasound 2250
Yamaha MX-1000
Rotel RB-1080
Rotel RB-990bx.
soundcraftsmen ma5002a
Aragon 8008BB (not truly common ground)
i'm gonna keep my eyes out for these or similar...now I need to compile a list of pre amps...this really is a rabbit hole..haha.. -
Sounds good, and don't forget about NAD. My 3.1TLs sounded great with a C370 and a 2200PE. Not all may be common ground though so look out. my 3.1TLs
I will fix your shifted magnets for free. -
Nice list you have going.... Here is a quick list of amplifiers i have & had & used on SDA's. Parasound 2250. Acurus 200×3 (sweet amp). Had Adcom 555 & 545. Denon POA2200 (sweet amp). Most all i did with seperates & could be used in HTfronts set up. All i listed never broke a sweat with SDA 1c 2B or Crs+ speakers. I did have a McIntosh 100wpc amp i never used on SDA's & i also had a NAD & Carver AVR100 (sweet) i used on B&W speakers & other Monitor Lsi speakers. So much out there. SDA's sound awesome on tube amps too . Keep in mind older amps may be due for refresh & some like the Adcom 555 can be upgraded. If the price is right & you got a local tech or DIY - you are styling. BTW lets not forget some Carver amps i hear about on CPolk. So many temptations ..
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boston1450 wrote: »Nice list you have going.... Here is a quick list of amplifiers i have & had & used on SDA's. Parasound 2250. Acurus 200×3 (sweet amp). Had Adcom 555 & 545. Denon POA2200 (sweet amp). Most all i did with seperates & could be used in HTfronts set up. All i listed never broke a sweat with SDA 1c 2B or Crs+ speakers. I did have a McIntosh 100wpc amp i never used on SDA's & i also had a NAD & Carver AVR100 (sweet) i used on B&W speakers & other Monitor Lsi speakers. So much out there. SDA's sound awesome on tube amps too . Keep in mind older amps may be due for refresh & some like the Adcom 555 can be upgraded. If the price is right & you got a local tech or DIY - you are styling. BTW lets not forget some Carver amps i hear about on CPolk. So many temptations
cool..i'll add all of those to the search list..if you had to pick one of those to live with forever, which would it be?
i'm totally new to this whole separates world...I've always collected 70's solid state receivers..I have Marantz 2325, Pioneer SX1250, Sansui 9090db and g9000...however, I heard the world of separates is a whole different thing and I want to check it out. I'm all open to suggestions for my first separates set up...
