Power Cables

audioluvr
audioluvr Posts: 5,584
edited January 2019 in 2 Channel Audio
So my next venture in this crazy world of audio is power cables. Currently running the flagship B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks. In my living room I have two outlets, one behind each speaker and they are on different circuits (different phases also) so each amp has it's own fairly dedicated circuit (one is shared with the pre and CD player). Where should I go from here? Power conditioners needed? Will any of it matter? I've been told differing information about whether their would be any improvement.

Thoughts?

lowg1aq8wu6p.jpg

Old pic...
Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,648
    Amps should be left off of power conditioners...a lot of them are current limiting. And unless you know for a fact they aren't, the amps themselves should have some power filtering themselves and it could create a negative cumulative effect.

    For power cables, look for something with quality construction and 99%+ OFC (Oxygen Free Copper) or even better, OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast *Copper).

    If you are worried about cost/benefit ratios, look into Pangea. I personally love their AC9 cables but they are far from flexible. The newest versions are better than the originals in that regard but still can be a handful. If you have some distance to go, the flexibility will be less of an issue.
    Their AC14SE cable would be the "next best" option. Smaller gauge of course but still a nice cable (I run AC9s to my amps and AC14SEs to all of my sources/pre).

    Next up from there in quality would be Wireworld, Cullen Cable, Douglas Connection and PS Audio cables. The sky is the limit really but to me, the best bang for the buck is those manufacturers.

    As for whether or not it will make a difference, ignore the static and let your ears decide. A lot of sellers these days offer trial periods or are even willing to let you try before you buy with a deposit.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,584
    edited January 2019
    Thanks! There seems to be a ton of stuff out there but not sure what's truly good or sugar coated dog po op. My cable runs are maybe 2 meters at the most to each outlet. My amps have a 1KVA torroidal tranny each so they are capable of sucking up the juice if needed.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    https://www.musicdirect.com/best-budget-tweaks-under-99/Shunyata-Venom-14-Power-Cable
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    Personally, after a few years of power and IC cable upgrades, I feel that cables are the foundation of a stereo. Get the foundation good and solid and then you can spend your time upgrading gear. With a weak foundation then you are constantly upgrading gear and cables.

    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    I bet we agree on a lot. :)

    The rack is also important, as you said. Mine weighs 500 pounds empty so it is pretty solid.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • MrBuhl
    MrBuhl Posts: 2,419
    I have to put in a little plug (see what I did there) for PS Audio power cables. The first truly audibly different cable I have had the pleasure of trying.
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
    Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000

    Polk SDA1c modded
    Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
    Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded)
    A/L 1000VA Dreadnought Canare 4s11 SDA cable
    SACD Marantz DV8300
    Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD
    Yamaha YP-D6
    Soundcraftsmen PCR800
    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    Vincent MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp
    Pho-700 Phono Pre
    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's






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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,010
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    Amps should be left off of power conditioners...a lot of them are current limiting. And unless you know for a fact they aren't, the amps themselves should have some power filtering themselves and it could create a negative cumulative effect.

    What do you guys do if you plug right in the wall? In terms of power outages, surges, brown outs?
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,897
    Whole home surge protection, cheap and easy
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    motorhead43026 wrote: »
    Whole home surge protection, cheap and easy

    ^This
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,010
    motorhead43026 wrote: »
    Whole home surge protection, cheap and easy

    Figured, when we have electrical work done in the basement I will be adding this.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    Willow wrote: »
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    Amps should be left off of power conditioners...a lot of them are current limiting. And unless you know for a fact they aren't, the amps themselves should have some power filtering themselves and it could create a negative cumulative effect.

    What do you guys do if you plug right in the wall? In terms of power outages, surges, brown outs?

    I unplug it. Most amps have the ability to withstand such problems.
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,648
    Yup...whole home surge protection. Of course, you could go extreme and install a whole home isolation transformer...but that's a LOT of scratch as I have discovered. :o
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    Yup...whole home surge protection. Of course, you could go extreme and install a whole home isolation transformer...but that's a LOT of scratch as I have discovered. :o

    Just have Russ "acquire" one for you :smile:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,584
    edited January 2019
    DSkip wrote: »
    I'd recommend getting a decent rack situated first. Pangea has a four shelf unit for $100 via Amazon that you should consider if for nothing more than to better stabilize the gear.

    Thanks Skip. I currently have my components in a solid oak cabinet. Would this be okay if I put spikes under it? I really like the looks of it.

    l4nqirccx6an.jpg
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,515
    My B&K runs pretty hot, I imagine the monos are similar. I hope you have some kind of ventilation fan that's not visible, otherwise you're cooking those amps.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,584
    edited January 2019
    The cooling ribs stick out the back and when I play music I usually have the window behind it cracked open in the winter (wide open in the summer) and my ceiling fan on.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    audioluvr wrote: »
    The cooling ribs stick out the back and when I play music I usually have the window behind it cracked open in the winter (wide open in the summer) and my ceiling fan on.

    Are there vents in the top of those? if there is you are just feeding that heat into the top amp as well. Excuse me if I'm wrong but if they are convection cooled anything on top will inhibit that.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,584
    edited January 2019
    This is how my top looks. On the bottom they are in the same location. I have 1"x1"x15" spacers between the two just inboard of the top vent so the heat goes out and up the sides. I do try to keep a close eye on it and they don't seem to be getting what I'd call hot but if you guys think I should replace it...

    8ccy375gqego.jpg

    pjrfjthbqrbb.jpg
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    maybe look into the solution @steveinaz used on top his Parasound amp (computer fans in a sturdy housing).

    I've used AC Infinity units on top my B&K 200.5, Denon X4100 (which are in a rack with all sides but back enclosed) and they are nice, but cant take more than 30lbs on top, betting your monos are more than that.

    Steve's solution can handle a lot more weight....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    Personally I'd give them more room on the side and tops to breathe. Side vent and top vent need room for the convection cooling to take place. it is really hard to tell from the pictures 1. If that is a bottom vent on the side in the pictures you provided or just a shadow 2. How much room in the cabinet you have under and on the side to allow air to move or if it is solid wood sided.

    Once again they're yours and if you keep a close eye on the heat build up and feel comfortable then rock on brother.

    Only you know for sure. It's always easier to cast stones than to catch them with your teeth :#:#
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    After having the speaker cable epiphany, and the same for IC's, I've been dipping my toes in the power cord area. The Pangea's for me is a nice step, not too expensive, but boy they are beefy!

    I'm running AC14 SE Mk2's to all my components. Want to get the AC 9's to feed the amp and power conditioner.
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,897
    Much better choices than the 9's. Ridiculous to work with, to stiff.
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Yep. Have to leave lots of space behind the components, for a proper bend radius.
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,788
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    Yup...whole home surge protection. Of course, you could go extreme and install a whole home isolation transformer...but that's a LOT of scratch as I have discovered. :o

    Just have Russ "acquire" one for you :smile:

    Thank you Dan.... ;)
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  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,133
    motorhead43026 wrote: »
    Much better choices than the 9's. Ridiculous to work with, to stiff.

    Yes those 9's sure are ridiculous to work with and I could not imagine snaking them through a rack full of gear. I use the first generation 9's on my mc1201's and what a pita it was wrangling those 7 gauge wires into place. The arcs have to be huge as there's no give to them. But the end result was well worth the effort and hopefully I'll never have to move them again
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    Forget Pangea. I started with them on my previous amps, but once I added the entry level Shunyata Venom cable I haven't looked back.

    At that time, they only offered the Venom 14, but now you can get a version for amps.

    https://shunyata.com/products/power-cables/venom-14/

    https://shunyata.com/products/power-cables/venom-hc/
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Yep @BlueFox I've read good things about em. Drew @Clipdat had a good review that he posted recently, IIRC.

    Hey you can always flip me your Pangea hand me downs! :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • Jimbo18
    Jimbo18 Posts: 2,334
    verb wrote: »
    Yep. Have to leave lots of space behind the components, for a proper bend radius.

    That's what I keep telling my wife.
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    I would, but I gave my extra cables away a couple of years ago.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    I know there’s not a lot of love for AQ but I love my Thunder /Niagara combo. Audible difference as much as any component when added
    Not cheap however
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