Elac Adante AF-61 (took some diy to make perfect)

13

Comments

  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,624
    halo wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Remember the green drivers and other issues on the first release?

    Yes, I do. I bought an entire set of them. After I got them, I listened to them. No bass response to speak of so I set up a return. Elac customer service was outstanding.
    How crazy is that? I think we both were impressed with the demo at AXPONA. I even asked A. Jones if the sub was playing during the demo. I guess its safe to say there was some quality control issue with the mass produced units verses the speakers they demoed at the show.

    FAMILY ROOM
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  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,448
    Just wow.
    I have been sick for a few weeks now and with work starting to ramp up after the holiday I have not been able to truly get these things dialed in. They have been sounding great and imaging well just glorious. But today I moved everything.
    Speakers. Sub. Couch. All to dial in perfect synergy. Getting there. I keep experimenting with the toe in and have come to the conclusion that no toe in works best for my room. Off axis performance is mind blowing with the highs.
    Playing the sub in all of the different modes and settings I have settled on no room Gain, 80hz cutoff, no extra parameters except reducing the gain by 4db to get closer to the output of the Elacs.
    Playing Deep Forest and you would swear it’s a 5.1 disc. This has now truly become an experience as I cannot go through my music fast enough.
    Playing Enigma at reference levels was like hearing it for the first time. No break up during 95db+ transients
    The Linns are such a good match for them and I truly feel lucky for that. Could have been a bust on synergy.
    Caring less and less about the little work I had to do as the days pass and just know it’s only going to get better as these things break in and open up.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • SIHABSIHAB Posts: 1,349
    Interesting. Are you using a "cheater" CD like the stereophile test CD
    or just well known stuff? I was going to get LS50s for the small room
    second system but was afraid that because I would have to place them
    too close together I would have issues. Just wondering. Don't mean
    anything by it.
  • verbverb Posts: 7,647
    Joe sorry to hear you're not feeling well. Get better brother!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Cary SLP-05 Pre, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable, Marantz SA-14 SACD, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, PASS ACA Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,448
    Thanks Dave

    @SIHAB I am using CD’s that I have listened to probably a thousand times or more over the last 30+ years. Very familiar with the sound and imaging through the systems I have owned. I think (can’t say for sure on the KEF’s) that the concentric tweeter is better further apart. Not sure if that’s the same with mini monitors like the LS50’s but those are very intriguing. I would imagine they are slightly more focused than the Elac towers.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 8,304
    Interesting and insightful.

    Andrew responding to your query personally is FANTASTIC of him.

    Thanks for sharing the above with us.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,138
    I'm very curious to hear how your guests enjoy them at your upcoming audio meet. If things go well I feel like ELAC will be selling a few more pairs of Adante towers.
    "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,448
    Thanks Drew. Why don’t you fly out here and join??
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,138
    Holding out for Axpona!
    "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • WillowWillow Posts: 9,638
    Very nice speakers Joe. I was looking them over on CAM and saw a dealer offering them at 3k off the price and are in white. I was very intrigued to say the least.
    2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607, Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 1 and AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Signal Dig Coax, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Marantz DV-4200 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII, Android Mi Box3 and Apple TV. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Polk Patio 25x4, Rotel RDV 1045 (as CDP) MIT AVT3 ICs - Work - Spotify Premium or Neutron App to my FiiO Kunlun into my Grado SR125e

  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,448
    Wow. The towers for $2k?!?? That’s a killer deal. Better than I got.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • WillowWillow Posts: 9,638
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Wow. The towers for $2k?!?? That’s a killer deal. Better than I got.

    That's cad they were still almost 4k for the pair.
    2Ch- B&W 703, SVS PB10 NSD, Marantz NR1607, Parasound 1500a, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (Yellow) with Acrylic platter, Pro-Ject phono pre, MIT AVT 2 speaker cables, MIT AVT 1 and AVT 2 ICs, XLO Jumpers, Signal Dig Coax, Signal Cable Magic Power Cables x3, Samsung 55JS7000, Harmony 1100, Sony BDP-S6200, Marantz DV-4200 (as Transport), Cambridge Audio DAC Magic100, Monster 3600MKII, Android Mi Box3 and Apple TV. - Pool /Gazebo Yamaha RX-A1010, Polk Patio 25x4, Rotel RDV 1045 (as CDP) MIT AVT3 ICs - Work - Spotify Premium or Neutron App to my FiiO Kunlun into my Grado SR125e

  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,584
    Willow wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Wow. The towers for $2k?!?? That’s a killer deal. Better than I got.

    That's cad they were still almost 4k for the pair.

    Well why didn't you say so

    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,448
    edited January 17
    Ah. Yes that makes me feel better. Thank You
    Sounds about the same in USD as I got them.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,448
    I found this review to be good but the one thing he had a gripe with might have something to do with the sealing issues:

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/elac-adante-af-61-loudspeaker-measurements

    I email Andrew Jones (who might just hope I disappear now as I am sure he is too busy to respond) and asked him the following:

    Andrew – I came across these measurements in my perusing the internet with regards to the Adante’s:

    'link above'

    What I wonder is if the speaker reviewed was a first run (like the models I got – where QC was an issue) if that didn’t contribute to the sharper than expected roll off at 40hz (approx.) that the reviewer measured.
    I say this because after the exercise I ran through (sealing each enclosure as much as I possibly could – so much so that when pushing in on each passive radiator they take some time to extend back to a resting position) I am measuring extended response into the 30hz range. This sort of gain in the lower bass region I attribute to sealing those boxes entirely. Do you concur with this and if so what are your thoughts?



    I do hope he answers as I believe the bass response DRASTICALLY improved upon my completion of the work. Now that the drivers have had over 100 hours of varied use, they are fully broken in and shine beautifully. The only other thing I would like to see is a recommendation for more power. They say up to 160wpc, but I think that would be a min power amp rating as these things love power. The Linn's should be pumping 180wpc x 2 (bi-amped) into each tower and they take it in stride.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,986
    edited January 21
    joecoulson wrote: »
    I found this review to be good but the one thing he had a gripe with might have something to do with the sealing issues:

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/elac-adante-af-61-loudspeaker-measurements
    ...
    Totally see your point, and it's an interesting question* but (and this is just rhetorical; for the purposes of discussion) wouldn't one assume that a review pair would be assessed by the mfgr or their reps to be working properly? Or do you suppose something about the construction of these speakers interferes with them "shipping well"?
    I do hope he answers as I believe the bass response DRASTICALLY improved upon my completion of the work. Now that the drivers have had over 100 hours of varied use, they are fully broken in and shine beautifully.

    Strictly out of curiosity(!) -- How do you know they're fully broken in?
    The only other thing I would like to see is a recommendation for more power. They say up to 160wpc, but I think that would be a min power amp rating as these things love power. The Linn's should be pumping 180wpc x 2 (bi-amped) into each tower and they take it in stride.

    ____________
    * I assume (?) the "gripe" to which you refer is JA's comment:
    The lower-frequency rolloff is also fourth-order, with an approximate –6dB frequency of 40Hz—higher than I would have expected for such a large loudspeaker.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,448
    No to the roll-off comment, it was this one on page 1 of the review:

    While the initial listening tests were good, there was a distinct lack of impact below about 45Hz, obvious on material I know to have substantially extended bass.


    I actually don't know they are fully broken in, I can only assume after 100+ hours of playing that they should be mostly at their peak performance

    Andrew's response was:

    The probable reason you measure into the 30Hz range is due to room modes and gain. Basically if a speaker is totally flat response to 20Hz, for example, then the in-room response will be elevated due the effects of the room. (This is very pronounced in an in-car environment)
    It’s often the reason why adding a subwoofer to a stereo pair of speakers almost never sounds musical in the first instance.
    So a speaker that rolls of in the nearfield measurement can often sound a little better than one that doesn’t. But it all comes down to setup and positioning.


    and then a follow up comment (which I think is key here to the gripe)

    It’s also a case that the room that the reviewer uses is large with connected spaces, and he knows that a lot of loudspeakers don’t load well in that room.
    As always, rooms are critical to the performance of a speaker.



    I asked him about toe in as I have been back and forth on it and cant make my mind up. I either want them flat or very very slightly toe in (5deg or less)
    his response to my question: "As a side note, did you find toe in was necessary on these? I am finding better results without toe in and wondered if that was inherent or room specific?"

    Regarding toe in, this depends..!
    I never face concentric driver speakers directly at the listening position.
    I usually toe them in such that the axis crosses in front of the listener, or behind.
    It depends on how far apart the speakers are and how close to sidewalls.
    If the sidewalls are close, toe in in front of the listener helps minimize side wall reflections. It also helps develop a very focused center image, at the expense of soundfield size.
    If the speakers are far apart, then toe in in front gives you a large image plus center focus.
    If the speakers are close, then toe out to just behind the listener helps give a bigger image.


    I have yet to make a full conclusion on this but will say that if I want right in front of your face image presentation, I toe in slightly, but if I want huge soundstage, I leave them flat.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,986
    joecoulson wrote: »
    No to the roll-off comment, it was this one on page 1 of the review:

    While the initial listening tests were good, there was a distinct lack of impact below about 45Hz, obvious on material I know to have substantially extended bass.
    Ahh, sorry -- I thought you pointed to the measurements. I've actually got the review part of the review open but I haven't read it yet! :#
    ...

    I asked him about toe in as I have been back and forth on it and cant make my mind up. I either want them flat or very very slightly toe in (5deg or less)
    his response to my question: "As a side note, did you find toe in was necessary on these? I am finding better results without toe in and wondered if that was inherent or room specific?"

    Regarding toe in, this depends..!
    I never face concentric driver speakers directly at the listening position.
    I usually toe them in such that the axis crosses in front of the listener, or behind.
    Interestingly, I used my Duplexes like that (crossed in front of the listening position) for many years: Altec Duplexes being among the first hifi "concentric" (coaxial) speakers (developed in 1943, and on the market shortly thereafter).

    [/quote]
    It depends on how far apart the speakers are and how close to sidewalls.
    If the sidewalls are close, toe in in front of the listener helps minimize side wall reflections. It also helps develop a very focused center image, at the expense of soundfield size.
    If the speakers are far apart, then toe in in front gives you a large image plus center focus.
    If the speakers are close, then toe out to just behind the listener helps give a bigger image.


    I have yet to make a full conclusion on this but will say that if I want right in front of your face image presentation, I toe in slightly, but if I want huge soundstage, I leave them flat.
    [/quote]

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,986
    edited January 21
    joecoulson wrote: »
    No to the roll-off comment, it was this one on page 1 of the review:

    While the initial listening tests were good, there was a distinct lack of impact below about 45Hz, obvious on material I know to have substantially extended bass.
    Ahh, sorry -- I thought you pointed to the measurements. I've actually got the review part of the review open but I haven't read it yet! :#
    ...

    I asked him about toe in as I have been back and forth on it and cant make my mind up. I either want them flat or very very slightly toe in (5deg or less)
    his response to my question: "As a side note, did you find toe in was necessary on these? I am finding better results without toe in and wondered if that was inherent or room specific?"

    Regarding toe in, this depends..!
    I never face concentric driver speakers directly at the listening position.
    I usually toe them in such that the axis crosses in front of the listener, or behind.
    Interestingly, I used my Duplexes like that (crossed in front of the listening position) for many years: Altec Duplexes being among the first hifi "concentric" (coaxial) speakers (developed in 1943, and on the market shortly thereafter).
    It depends on how far apart the speakers are and how close to sidewalls.
    If the sidewalls are close, toe in in front of the listener helps minimize side wall reflections. It also helps develop a very focused center image, at the expense of soundfield size.
    If the speakers are far apart, then toe in in front gives you a large image plus center focus.
    If the speakers are close, then toe out to just behind the listener helps give a bigger image.


    I have yet to make a full conclusion on this but will say that if I want right in front of your face image presentation, I toe in slightly, but if I want huge soundstage, I leave them flat.

    ... Thanks!
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,390
    Very interesting to read for many reasons.
    Loved the feedback from Mr. Jones and his ideas and comments.

    Was amazed at how brave the O.P. was with his DIY "Repairs" of the quality control issue!

    Hope it all works out well!
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4,SDA 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Epos-Now gone
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,986
    edited January 22
    I think it is both excellent & very cool that @joecoulson got direct feedback from Andrew Jones. By all accounts he (Mr/Dr Jones that is*) is an approachable and refreshingly attitude-free hifi guru. There are a small but significant number of 'em, thankfully!

    This thread has motivated me to ask Mr/Dr Jones about his recommendations for stands/positioning for the little "Debuts". I am "on" LinkedIn with him (his standards of vetting LinkedIn contacts thus seem to be rather low :# ). EDIT: Derp. He is in fact on LinkedIn, but I am not "linked in" with him. :| Why did I think I was? I'm not usually delusional. ;)

    As an aside, there are a number of interesting hifi folks on LinkedIn -- in case all y'all might find that interesting.

    ________________
    * Not to say that @joecoulson isn't "approachable and refreshingly attitude-free"! ;) He certainly seems to be by all evidence at these forums!

  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,448
    LOL, thanks Mark
    I'll PM you info that you want
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,390
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I think it is both excellent & very cool that @joecoulson got direct feedback from Andrew Jones. By all accounts he (Mr/Dr Jones that is*) is an approachable and refreshingly attitude-free hifi guru. There are a small but significant number of 'em, thankfully!

    This thread has motivated me to ask Mr/Dr Jones about his recommendations for stands/positioning for the little "Debuts". I am "on" LinkedIn with him (his standards of vetting LinkedIn contacts thus seem to be rather low :# ). EDIT: Derp. He is in fact on LinkedIn, but I am not "linked in" with him. :| Why did I think I was? I'm not usually delusional. ;)

    As an aside, there are a number of interesting hifi folks on LinkedIn -- in case all y'all might find that interesting.

    ________________
    * Not to say that @joecoulson isn't "approachable and refreshingly attitude-free"! ;) He certainly seems to be by all evidence at these forums!

    You know, I was not sure if it was Mister/Doctor, but have mostly seen his name written as "Andrew Jones", but totally agree he is very approachable and interested in talking about his "Creations" and the engineering that goes into them!
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4,SDA 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-Sold
    Epos-Now gone
    Infinity-Sold
    Advent-Now gone
    Yamaha A-S801
    Yamaha RX-V377
    Yamaha RX-A860
    Yamaha RX-A3060
    Harman Kardon Hk-350i
    Harman Kardon Hk-........
    Harman Kardon PM-665
    Harman Kardon HK-775
    Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver

  • Tony MTony M Posts: 8,304
    edited January 22
    I think Joe can call him Andy now. ;)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,448
    He is approachable and an upstanding fellow. As Mark stated, unfortunately few and far between with the “designers” and decision makers these days.

    7f2kiol6c0ix.jpeg
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,986
    edited January 22
    ^^^ That is brilliant!
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