True story: How I brought up the idea of the subwoofer purchase to my wife
Comments
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I agree WLD
I think I have wanted one for so long.
I think... no I know the performance can be beat with F18 stack.
All of these subs are awesome and get low!
Seaton Submersive F2 > -3dB at 12Hz
Paradigm SUB 2 > -3dB at 12Hz
Rythmik F18 > -2dB at 14 Hz
Rythmik G25HP > -2dB at 14 Hz
Velodyne DD18 Plus > -3dB at 14.4Hz
SVS SB16-Ultra > -3dB at 16Hz
JL Audio Fathom > -3dB at 18Hz
Rel No. 25 > -6dB at 14 Hz
Internet Direct
4 x HSU ULS-15 MK2 - $3310 shipped
2 x Rythmik Audio F18-SE - $3360 shipped
2 x Power Sound Audio S3010 - $3399 + shipping
2 x SVS SB16-Ultra - $3799 Shipped
2 x Rythmik Audio G25HP-SE - $4505 shipped
2 x Seaton Submersive F2 + F2 Slave - $4580 shipped
2 x Funk Audio 18.0 - $5857 + shipping
Major Brand
2 x Velodyne DD18 Plus - $7647 Shipped
2 x JL Audio Fathom f113v2 - $9000
2 x REL Acoustics No. 25 - $15,000
2 x Paradigm SUB 2 - $21,000
2 x JL Audio Gotham g213 - $24,000
Add in Room Correction of choice for subs that don't have it
As far as speaker level inputs, many subs don't have it and manufactures reccomend an adapter. https://www.russound.com/products/audio-systems/multi-room-controllers/expansion-devices/adp-1-2-speaker-to-line-level-adapter
Once could have one custom made using higher quality components.
Rythmik Audio is located in Cedar Park, TX by the wayPost edited by WLDock on2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
Those are end game speakers and sub for music to me.
You mean end life...per the wife
2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
I agree WLD
I think I have wanted one for so long.
I think... no I know the performance can be beat with F18 stack.
All of these subs are awesome and get low!
Seaton Submersive F2 > -3dB at 12Hz
Paradigm SUB 2 > -3dB at 12Hz
Rythmik F18 > -2dB at 14 Hz
Rythmik G25HP > -2dB at 14 Hz
Velodyne DD18 Plus > -3dB at 14.4Hz
SVS SB16-Ultra > -3dB at 16Hz
JL Audio Fathom > -3dB at 18Hz
Rel No. 25 > -6dB at 14 Hz
Internet Direct
4 x HSU ULS-15 MK2 - $3310 shipped
2 x Rythmik Audio F18-SE - $3360 shipped
2 x Power Sound Audio S3010 - $3399 + shipping
2 x SVS SB16-Ultra - $3799 Shipped
2 x Rythmik Audio G25HP-SE - $4505 shipped
2 x Seaton Submersive F2 + F2 Slave - $4580 shipped
2 x Funk Audio 18.0 - $5857 + shipping
Major Brand
2 x Velodyne DD18 Plus - $7647 Shipped
2 x JL Audio Fathom f113v2 - $9000
2 x REL Acoustics No. 25 - $15,000
2 x Paradigm SUB 2 - $21,000
2 x JL Audio Gotham g213 - $24,000
Add in Room Correction of choice for subs that don't have it
As far as speaker level inputs, many subs don't have it and manufactures reccomend an adapter. https://www.russound.com/products/audio-systems/multi-room-controllers/expansion-devices/adp-1-2-speaker-to-line-level-adapter
Once could have one custom made using higher quality components.
Rythmik Audio is located in Cedar Park, TX by the way
Don't forget JTR...
Captivator S2
Captivator 4000ULF
And as I mentioned above, Jeff from JTR works directly with Jim Salk to customize them if wanted at a very reasonable rate."Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
Don't forget JTR...
Captivator S2
Captivator 4000ULF
And as I mentioned above, Jeff from JTR works directly with Jim Salk to customize them if wanted at a very reasonable rate.
Absolute low bass beast! Internet direct is killing it! So many opportunities for end game bass.
A couple of custom Salk edition JTR, Rythmik, or Stereo Integrity subs mated with room correction of choice would kill in performance, quality, and beauty of construction. Still, I think Joey wants that REL.
Internet Direct
4 x HSU ULS-15 MK2 - $3310 shipped
2 x Rythmik Audio F18-SE - $3360 shipped
2 x Power Sound Audio S3010 - $3399 + shipping
2 x SVS SB16-Ultra - $3799 Shipped
2 x Rythmik Audio G25HP-SE - $4505 shipped
2 x JTR Captivator S1 - $4798 + Shipping
2 x Seaton Submersive F2 + F2 Slave - $4580 shipped
2 x Funk Audio 18.0 - $5857 + shipping
2 x JTR Captivator S2 - $6596 + Shipping
Major Brand
2 x Velodyne DD18 Plus - $7647 Shipped
2 x JL Audio Fathom f113v2 - $9000
2 x REL Acoustics No. 25 - $15,000
2 x Paradigm SUB 2 - $21,000
2 x JL Audio Gotham g213 - $24,0002.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
Dual dd18 looks interesante
Will it be just as fast as the rel 25...Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Go with the REL Joey. They combine elegance and performance better than anyone else in the game. IMHOThe Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Super choices there, if I had the coin, I would do the JL’s all day.
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I am tempted Gotham.
But no hi level is what stops me.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
They are stunning though. Just heard them again at the dealer I purchased the Elacs from. Amazing subs.
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For sure.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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I was looking at these as I can pick them up and afford them
http://www.audiokinesis.com/the-swarm-subwoofer-system-1.html
Gotta have at least two sub IMHO. Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears -
I was looking at these as I can pick them up and afford them
http://www.audiokinesis.com/the-swarm-subwoofer-system-1.html
Gotta have at least two sub IMHO.
Artwork stands.
Sticky tape probably would be needed though. 
Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them. -
Sounds like you want the REL Joey. If high level inputs are a must have, My bet is that is where you will land. WLDock pretty well covered the major players. Based on personal experience, forget the SVS sealed. JTR, Seaton and Rhythmik are all solid. If you are considering JL, they are nice, but aren’t in the same league as Funk Audio. I can’t speak to the other brands. I have owned a pair of Funk subs for years. They replaced JL’s. They are the only components in my system I haven’t had any desire to upgrade. I don’t play at your level of gear, but you should at least check them out.
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You're a bad man Joey!I am tempted Gotham.
But no hi level is what stops me.
Two Gothams might be end game subs even at your level. Don't let the lack of built in speaker level inputs stop you if this is what you really want. High level to line level is something that was more prevalent when integrated amps did not have preamp outputs. Many have preouts and balanced outputs now. For sure its the reason that the mighty Gotham does not have them. Speaker level to low level is nothing magical. Audio amplifiers that have this built-in simply have an attenuation circuit on the input to reduce the signal. There are off the shelf products to do this. In the pro audio world for example, there are boxes to adapt just about any source level down to a usable preamp level, Balanced inputs, etc. https://www.parts-express.com/jensen-iso-max-sp-2sx-2-channel-speakon-speaker-level-to-xlr--line-level-converter-adapter--246-0131
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/home-theater/audiophile/
Please talk direct to the technical department at JL and discuss the speaker level vs. line level conversation. Let them know what you are trying to do. Maybe they can recommend something or put together something for you. Do you still have the mega watt Boulder amp?
Post edited by WLDock on2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
98 - thx for the info, I will look into it. I’m not into diy so I hope it’s not that.
WLD - yes I still have the Boulder and while I plan on getting a tube amp at some point for variety, I won’t be replacing the Boulder unless I can afford a bigger Boulder.
Interesting you bring up the balanced inputs of the Gotham.
Can you look at this preamp and see if it works with the Gotham.
I don’t have that ARC anniv pre but it’s on my radar for the next 18 months.
http://kahlaudio.com/products/audio-research-40th-anniversary-edition-reference-preamp-26000-msrp/
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
The Gotham wants true Balanced inputs not unbalanced to balanced adapters. That AR pre looks good to go with two sets of balanced outputs.
So you are not familiar with Funk Audio? I listed one of their subs in the internet direct list I put together. They are a Canadian custom sub maker. Their subs have furniture quality finishes and they are expensive even with the USD to CAN exchange rate.
https://www.funkaudio.ca/
https://www.facebook.com/funkaudio.ca/
2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
That’s a beautiful looking sub
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It is a good looking sub.
I browsed Funk's website.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Either the guy is a figit or...Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears
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I remember you were talking REL or SVS dual 2-3 stack awhile back...
Maybe you're probably not interested but here are four Seaton F18 passive slave units that you could pick up for $3600 plus shipping. They are normally $1295 each. The 4000 watts amp to drive them is $1350 shipped.http://seatonsound.net/product/f18-subwoofer/
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-audio-gear/3032128-seaton-f18-passive-slave-units-4-available-price-below-each-unit.html
Should provide low distortion impact and low end body to any mains out there. Here is a dual three stack example:
2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
Wow. That’s a setup
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REL makes the best musical subs but I will admit I am happy with my B&W DB1D that I use with my 805D3 in my family room setup - took a bit of dialing in. I also use a REL B1 with my Cremeona Auditor Ms in the listening room.[
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Update
I believe I will be going with JL and the CR1 crossover
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Congratulations, Joey. That took some self control. Now I direct your gaze to the two-page ad by YG Acoustics for their “Invincible” subwoofer in the latest issue of The Absolute Sound (pages 6-7).
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You will always wonder about those REL’s... what I like about them is they can be as smooth as silk or tremendously aggressive, depending on what you ask them to do,The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Yes!! Awesome choice.
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I heard dual rel 212 and it did not push me to rel. I know the 25 would be better, but I believe that the main issue will not be hi level or low level inputs, it would be whether I have control of the subwoofer ecosystem relative to my speakers.
With the JL Audio, I can add the JL Audio CR1 crossover, fully analog unit.
I can control high pass (where I cut the speakers low extension off at) and I can control low pass filters (where I introduce the subwoofers). In addition, I can control slopes at 12db or 24db per octave at those frequency points.
I can also run the JL Audio subs' DARO room correct to truly improve and control the room response.
I believe I will not be going with the Gotham 213 as I would like to have dual subs. Dual Gotham might just be enough to break the bank for me at this time... sad.
Plus, I don't know how I'm going to lug 700lbs of subwoofers into my room.
I believe the final set up with be the JL Audio CR1 combined with dual JL Audio Fathoms 113v2.
Wish me luck
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Seriously! That's still $12,400 retail worth of clean impacting reference class bass. You're doing alright Joey!I believe the final set up with be the JL Audio CR1 combined with dual JL Audio Fathoms 113v2.
I'm sure you've see Steve Williams system.
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/doctors-orders-part-two-the-new-listening-room-of-steve-williams.10535/page-2
IMO, I would expect to see dual Gotham subs in the homes of a multi-millionaire record executive or music artists. Just saying...
The subs are only 19.25x19.25x16.5 and 133lbs each. If you don't have this, get yourself a good hand cart and some large sliders and you can move all of your heavy gear around no problem.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AMG500--krane-amg-500-utility-cart
https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/harper-trucks-steel-tough-700-nylon-convertible-hand-truck#productDetail
Good Luck!
Post edited by WLDock on2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
I hefted my SB16 into my house by myself!!
I have not been able to stand up straight since -
I placed 2 - F25's in my basement. Furniture sliders are a must._____________________________________________________________________________________________
Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
DAC: Bricasti M1SE
Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
