Rumble

2

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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    If you want to eliminate the rumble and still use your Bottlehead pre try this: https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/rf1.htm

    It's the only standalone rumble filter I've tried that did not affect sound quality.
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    Dawgfish wrote: »
    If you want to eliminate the rumble and still use your Bottlehead pre try this: https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/rf1.htm

    It's the only standalone rumble filter I've tried that did not affect sound quality.

    Thanks for the suggestion!
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    @mhardy6647 @SCompRacer @ALL212 @Dawgfish - It seems that rumble filters are actually a bad thing (according to this post):

    https://hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/why-rumble-filters-are-bad_topic2842.html
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    The KAB filter definitely does not affect sound quality and I have no problems with lack of bass I can assure you! I also tried some cheaper filters that you can plug inline with your interconnects (think they were Harris but can't remember exactly) that had a cutoff of 20 Hz and they did affect the bass quality somewhat. The bass detail became slightly muddied. It wasn't bad however and these were not bad considering the $30-40 dollars or so I spent on them. To me running a rumble filter is a no brainer if you are experiencing rumble. I had to replace the driver in my REL sub and I'm pretty sure the reason I had to was from the excess rumble stressing the driver. If you have rumble, the rumble filter gives you good piece of mind for your amp, speakers, and sub(s).

    Btw I experimented with sorbothane in various forms suspending a wood board (3" thick hickory cutting board) and it actually made rumble worse. I had the best luck with wood blocks being placed under the wood board as footers. I think the wood allows the vibrations from the stylus, arm, motor, bearings to be dissipated into the audio rack. For whatever reason I had the best luck with that, YMMV however.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,496
    edited December 2018
    Some reading.

    AK thread...

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/ported-speakers-and-subsonic-filters-why.394426/

    Hoffman forums...

    https://www.forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/woofer-pumping-anything-to-worry-about.443388/

    Try posting at Bottlehead forum. Not much comes up with "rumble" search. Nothing pops with "woofer pumping."

    A rumble filter may be your only solution.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Some reading.

    AK thread...

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/ported-speakers-and-subsonic-filters-why.394426/

    Hoffman forums...

    https://www.forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/woofer-pumping-anything-to-worry-about.443388/

    Try posting at Bottlehead forum. Not much comes up with "rumble" search. Nothing pops with "woofer pumping."

    A rumble filter may be your only solution.

    Thanks Rich!
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • ALL212
    ALL212 Posts: 1,577
    the other pre “solves “ the issue but only if the filter is on points to something other than the pre causing this since with that pre you see the same cone excursions.

    Could be tubes but probably not both channels at the same time. If you don’t have extras to test with I’ll check stock for a pair of loaners.
    Aaron
    Enabler Extraordinaire
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,801
    I agree that the likelihood is low but it's also easy to test.
    The other thing that comes to mind is a "kit related issue" -- I've had (full disclosure) plenty of anomalies caused by my own poor soldering. Again, I think it is probably either acoustic feedback or some induced mechanical noise (from a bearing or whatnot) but it's worth checking all potential etiologies, no? :)

    I am not a fan of subsonic filters per se -- but, then again, this isn't a problem that I've had myself, avec or sans a filter (some of the 1970s soiled state stuff here does have built in infrasonic filters, e.g.). It's kind of a brute force, "turn sideways to the problem" solution, but it can certainly work.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,496
    edited December 2018
    How many hours on that TT? Try oiling the upper motor bearing/bushing if it's dry.

    Does your doctor wife have a stethoscope? Listen to your tables heart beat.... I have a mechanical 'scope that I've used when building tables.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,885
    May I ask why a bad tube could cause woofer pumping? Just curious.
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,801
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    May I ask why a bad tube could cause woofer pumping? Just curious.

    I am thinking of infrasonic oscillation, although something in the circuit is more likely than the tube to be the culprit in such a case.
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    How many hours on that TT? Try oiling the upper motor bearing/bushing if it's dry.

    Does your doctor wife have a stethoscope? Listen to your tables heart beat.... I have a mechanical 'scope that I've used when building tables.

    I used synthetic motor oil (tiny amount ) in the sleeve that houses the sub platter. I read that was ok but would like to hear it from some of you fellas
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,496
    edited December 2018
    joecoulson wrote: »

    I used synthetic motor oil (tiny amount ) in the sleeve that houses the sub platter. I read that was ok but would like to hear it from some of you fellas

    Oil type is really dependant on bearing clearances. The tighter the clearance the thinner the oil. Older Rega's were loose and used a dollop of 80/90 weight gear lube. My custom stainless bearing in my Lenco turntable has really tight clearance and uses thin Turbine oil.

    The turntable manufacturer should spec what to use. I'm sure you're OK using synthetic motor oil. Lots of folks do.

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,897
    edited December 2018
    I use Hoppes synthetic firearm/fishing reel oil.
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,496
    edited December 2018
    Here is an older interesting thread at diyaudio about the ultimate rumble filter.

    https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/218801-ultimate-rumble-filter-effective-pass-filter.html

    The 'Derumbleizer' mentioned in the thread. But now we have op amps and a high/low filter.

    http://derumbleizer.com/

    Price page...

    http://derumbleizer.com/price2.htm
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    I cannot believe the hoops turntable users go through. LOL. Enjoy. :)
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,496
    edited December 2018
    Victor, just recalled, did we ever look at re-checking coupling cap values for the Reduction? Didn't you change pre amps? I was really busy at the time and think I forgot.

    I guess vinyl guys are gluttons for punishment? lol Solve the problem and no worries.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,027
    I am so glad I don't have any of this ****!

    Don't even know if Vanilla Censors it. If only the subsonic world would naturally....

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    How many hours on that TT? Try oiling the upper motor bearing/bushing if it's dry.
    Can't say for sure but Aaron said it looked to be in very good shape when he went through it for me. In fact, this is the table you saw at Aaron's. I do have the appropriate Technics oil so I can apply some oil to the bearing.
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Does your doctor wife have a stethoscope? Listen to your tables heart beat.... I have a mechanical 'scope that I've used when building tables.
    lol. She's a Ph. D. not an MD or a DO. So, no stethoscopes here.


    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Victor, just recalled, did we ever look at re-checking coupling cap values for the Reduction? Didn't you change pre amps? I was really busy at the time and think I forgot.

    I guess vinyl guys are gluttons for punishment? lol Solve the problem and no worries.

    I started with the Parasound P5 and you built the kit to that specification. Then I got the Cary CPA-1 and you changed the cap to match the value on the Cary. I still have the Cary so that shouldn't be the issue. I was contemplating a move to an integrated but there was no interest in my McCormack amp or the Cary preamp so I'm staying put with those pieces.
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,801
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »

    I used synthetic motor oil (tiny amount ) in the sleeve that houses the sub platter. I read that was ok but would like to hear it from some of you fellas

    Oil type is really dependant on bearing clearances. The tighter the clearance the thinner the oil. Older Rega's were loose and used a dollop of 80/90 weight gear lube. My custom stainless bearing in my Lenco turntable has really tight clearance and uses thin Turbine oil.

    The turntable manufacturer should spec what to use. I'm sure you're OK using synthetic motor oil. Lots of folks do.


    Yeah -- you've gotta use the right goop for the job, as specified by the manufacture.
    Folks invest great amounts of effort exploring, testing and debating the 'best' platter bearing (etc.) lubricants for, e.g., Thorens TD-124 turntables. :)

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,801
    edited December 2018
    halo wrote: »
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    How many hours on that TT? Try oiling the upper motor bearing/bushing if it's dry.
    Can't say for sure but Aaron said it looked to be in very good shape when he went through it for me. In fact, this is the table you saw at Aaron's. I do have the appropriate Technics oil so I can apply some oil to the bearing.
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Does your doctor wife have a stethoscope? Listen to your tables heart beat.... I have a mechanical 'scope that I've used when building tables.
    lol. She's a Ph. D. not an MD or a DO. So, no stethoscopes here.


    Overruled.
    I'm a PhD, and we've got one :p

    Heck, I'll bet the Tappet Brothers had 'em -- and those guys went to MIT.


    9v6dxidlq429.png

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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    mhardy6647 wrote: »

    Overruled.
    I'm a PhD, and we've got one :p

    Heck, I'll bet the Tappet Brothers had 'em -- and those guys went to MIT.

    My ex-wife was a nursing student for a brief time. She left her stethoscope but I don’t think that I kept it.
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,801
    I think mine was from my mother, now that you mention it :p She was a nurse.
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    May I ask why a bad tube could cause woofer pumping? Just curious.

    I am thinking of infrasonic oscillation, although something in the circuit is more likely than the tube to be the culprit in such a case.

    So, using just the Art DJ Pre II without the subsonic filter engaged produces cone excursion. With the subsonic filter engaged the cone excursion, if any, is associated directly with the music reproduction. So, I opine, the tubes are not causing the issue.

    I'm still looking for the Technics turntable bearing oil I bought a year ago. I sent it to Aaron when he went through the SL-Q2 with a fine-toothed comb and I know he sent it back to me but I have to find it as it isn't with my other turntable "gear."
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,801
    halo wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    May I ask why a bad tube could cause woofer pumping? Just curious.

    I am thinking of infrasonic oscillation, although something in the circuit is more likely than the tube to be the culprit in such a case.

    So, using just the Art DJ Pre II without the subsonic filter engaged produces cone excursion. With the subsonic filter engaged the cone excursion, if any, is associated directly with the music reproduction. So, I opine, the tubes are not causing the issue.

    I'm still looking for the Technics turntable bearing oil I bought a year ago. I sent it to Aaron when he went through the SL-Q2 with a fine-toothed comb and I know he sent it back to me but I have to find it as it isn't with my other turntable "gear."

    I concur with your assessment -- and if you posted that before and I missed it, I am sorry! :|


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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,496
    edited December 2018
    halo wrote: »
    lol. She's a Ph. D. not an MD or a DO. So, no stethoscopes here.
    She's still a doc, right? :)

    Aaron would have taken care of it. I saw him with a grease gun lubing everything.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    halo wrote: »
    lol. She's a Ph. D. not an MD or a DO. So, no stethoscopes here.
    She's still a doc, right? :)

    Yes, she’s got her doctorate degree in biological sciences from Northwestern. So, technically, she is a doctor of philosophy in biological sciences. She is not a medical doctor or a doctor of osteopathy. She doesn’t see patients. She does research in a lab. Similar to doc hardy @mhardy6647
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,496
    edited December 2018
    halo wrote: »

    Yes, she’s got her doctorate degree in biological sciences from Northwestern. So, technically, she is a doctor of philosophy in biological sciences. She is not a medical doctor or a doctor of osteopathy. She doesn’t see patients. She does research in a lab. Similar to doc hardy @mhardy6647

    My point was you don't say "hey, phd," you say "hey, doc" like you just said doc Hardy... :)

    OK I'll stop...
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    SCompRacer wrote: »

    My point was you don't say "hey, phd," you say "hey, doc." :)

    That’s an interesting point you bring up. Yes, she is Dr. Mendoza. But, most people don’t call her “doctor” unless they’re undergrad students and they’re being respectful. Her colleagues typically address her by her first name. Some of her former professors said, “hello doctor.” after she received her Ph. D. That was a very nice way of respecting the title and degree she recently earned and a nice way of welcoming her into their ranks.

    Does that make sense or am I bad at explaining the difference? I mean, anyone who wants to call her doctor can do so and be 100% correct.
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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