Rumble

2

Comments

  • DawgfishDawgfish Posts: 2,540
    If you want to eliminate the rumble and still use your Bottlehead pre try this: https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/rf1.htm

    It's the only standalone rumble filter I've tried that did not affect sound quality.
  • halohalo Posts: 4,899
    Dawgfish wrote: »
    If you want to eliminate the rumble and still use your Bottlehead pre try this: https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/rf1.htm

    It's the only standalone rumble filter I've tried that did not affect sound quality.

    Thanks for the suggestion!
  • DawgfishDawgfish Posts: 2,540
    The KAB filter definitely does not affect sound quality and I have no problems with lack of bass I can assure you! I also tried some cheaper filters that you can plug inline with your interconnects (think they were Harris but can't remember exactly) that had a cutoff of 20 Hz and they did affect the bass quality somewhat. The bass detail became slightly muddied. It wasn't bad however and these were not bad considering the $30-40 dollars or so I spent on them. To me running a rumble filter is a no brainer if you are experiencing rumble. I had to replace the driver in my REL sub and I'm pretty sure the reason I had to was from the excess rumble stressing the driver. If you have rumble, the rumble filter gives you good piece of mind for your amp, speakers, and sub(s).

    Btw I experimented with sorbothane in various forms suspending a wood board (3" thick hickory cutting board) and it actually made rumble worse. I had the best luck with wood blocks being placed under the wood board as footers. I think the wood allows the vibrations from the stylus, arm, motor, bearings to be dissipated into the audio rack. For whatever reason I had the best luck with that, YMMV however.
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 7,054
    edited December 2018
    Some reading.

    AK thread...

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/ported-speakers-and-subsonic-filters-why.394426/

    Hoffman forums...

    https://www.forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/woofer-pumping-anything-to-worry-about.443388/

    Try posting at Bottlehead forum. Not much comes up with "rumble" search. Nothing pops with "woofer pumping."

    A rumble filter may be your only solution.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 1,011
    the other pre “solves “ the issue but only if the filter is on points to something other than the pre causing this since with that pre you see the same cone excursions.

    Could be tubes but probably not both channels at the same time. If you don’t have extras to test with I’ll check stock for a pair of loaners.
    Aaron
    Enabler Extraordinaire
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,073
    I agree that the likelihood is low but it's also easy to test.
    The other thing that comes to mind is a "kit related issue" -- I've had (full disclosure) plenty of anomalies caused by my own poor soldering. Again, I think it is probably either acoustic feedback or some induced mechanical noise (from a bearing or whatnot) but it's worth checking all potential etiologies, no? :)

    I am not a fan of subsonic filters per se -- but, then again, this isn't a problem that I've had myself, avec or sans a filter (some of the 1970s soiled state stuff here does have built in infrasonic filters, e.g.). It's kind of a brute force, "turn sideways to the problem" solution, but it can certainly work.
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 7,054
    edited December 2018
    How many hours on that TT? Try oiling the upper motor bearing/bushing if it's dry.

    Does your doctor wife have a stethoscope? Listen to your tables heart beat.... I have a mechanical 'scope that I've used when building tables.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • mikeyb128mikeyb128 Posts: 2,815
    May I ask why a bad tube could cause woofer pumping? Just curious.
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,073
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    May I ask why a bad tube could cause woofer pumping? Just curious.

    I am thinking of infrasonic oscillation, although something in the circuit is more likely than the tube to be the culprit in such a case.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 2,120
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    How many hours on that TT? Try oiling the upper motor bearing/bushing if it's dry.

    Does your doctor wife have a stethoscope? Listen to your tables heart beat.... I have a mechanical 'scope that I've used when building tables.

    I used synthetic motor oil (tiny amount ) in the sleeve that houses the sub platter. I read that was ok but would like to hear it from some of you fellas
    2ch: PS Audio Stellar Gain pre, PS Audio Stellar gain M700 mono blocks, Elac Adante AF-61 towers Black, SVS SB16 Ultra Subwoofer, Cambridge Audio CXN v2, Rega Planar 2 with Canaro 2 subplatter, dual belt pulley and upgraded bearing, Rega Ania MC cart, Vincent PHO 701 Phono pre with CBS NOS 12au7, Audioquest Niagara 1000, AQ Thunder, AQ red river XLR's and Victoria IC's, Wireworld Stratus and Aurora power cables, Atlas EOS power cable, Denon 2910 (as transport) Sony CPD355 Jukebox cd, Acoustic Zen Satori speaker cables

    5.1: Marantz sr5013 (feeding mains through HT bypass) Sonus Faber solo center, AQ Carbon HDMI's, Sony XBRx900E, Xbox One S as 4k player, Definitive Technology SM350's surrounds, Tivo Bolt, Harmony Elite remote

    Other gear: Linn LK240 mono blocks pair, Totem Rainmakers, Sonos play 5 and play 1's x 2, Audio Technica TT and Edifier active speakers in kids room, JVC XM448 minidisc rack mount, Sony minidisc walkman, Project Debut III (currently not working), Samsung 46, and 2 x32" tvs, Samsung Soundbar, Okki Nokki LP cleaner, Second Harmony remote setup for bedroom, etc etc
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 7,054
    edited December 2018
    joecoulson wrote: »

    I used synthetic motor oil (tiny amount ) in the sleeve that houses the sub platter. I read that was ok but would like to hear it from some of you fellas

    Oil type is really dependant on bearing clearances. The tighter the clearance the thinner the oil. Older Rega's were loose and used a dollop of 80/90 weight gear lube. My custom stainless bearing in my Lenco turntable has really tight clearance and uses thin Turbine oil.

    The turntable manufacturer should spec what to use. I'm sure you're OK using synthetic motor oil. Lots of folks do.

    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 3,105
    edited December 2018
    I use Hoppes synthetic firearm/fishing reel oil.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; Cables ZU Mission IC's, SC and power cords, all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.

    Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant

    tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there

    Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb then dumber.
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 7,054
    edited December 2018
    Here is an older interesting thread at diyaudio about the ultimate rumble filter.

    https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/218801-ultimate-rumble-filter-effective-pass-filter.html

    The 'Derumbleizer' mentioned in the thread. But now we have op amps and a high/low filter.

    http://derumbleizer.com/

    Price page...

    http://derumbleizer.com/price2.htm
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 10,567
    I cannot believe the hoops turntable users go through. LOL. Enjoy. :)
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin S1 - X1 power supply
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 7,054
    edited December 2018
    Victor, just recalled, did we ever look at re-checking coupling cap values for the Reduction? Didn't you change pre amps? I was really busy at the time and think I forgot.

    I guess vinyl guys are gluttons for punishment? lol Solve the problem and no worries.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,827
    I am so glad I don't have any of this ****!

    Don't even know if Vanilla Censors it. If only the subsonic world would naturally....

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • halohalo Posts: 4,899
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    How many hours on that TT? Try oiling the upper motor bearing/bushing if it's dry.
    Can't say for sure but Aaron said it looked to be in very good shape when he went through it for me. In fact, this is the table you saw at Aaron's. I do have the appropriate Technics oil so I can apply some oil to the bearing.
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Does your doctor wife have a stethoscope? Listen to your tables heart beat.... I have a mechanical 'scope that I've used when building tables.
    lol. She's a Ph. D. not an MD or a DO. So, no stethoscopes here.


  • halohalo Posts: 4,899
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Victor, just recalled, did we ever look at re-checking coupling cap values for the Reduction? Didn't you change pre amps? I was really busy at the time and think I forgot.

    I guess vinyl guys are gluttons for punishment? lol Solve the problem and no worries.

    I started with the Parasound P5 and you built the kit to that specification. Then I got the Cary CPA-1 and you changed the cap to match the value on the Cary. I still have the Cary so that shouldn't be the issue. I was contemplating a move to an integrated but there was no interest in my McCormack amp or the Cary preamp so I'm staying put with those pieces.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,073
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »

    I used synthetic motor oil (tiny amount ) in the sleeve that houses the sub platter. I read that was ok but would like to hear it from some of you fellas

    Oil type is really dependant on bearing clearances. The tighter the clearance the thinner the oil. Older Rega's were loose and used a dollop of 80/90 weight gear lube. My custom stainless bearing in my Lenco turntable has really tight clearance and uses thin Turbine oil.

    The turntable manufacturer should spec what to use. I'm sure you're OK using synthetic motor oil. Lots of folks do.


    Yeah -- you've gotta use the right goop for the job, as specified by the manufacture.
    Folks invest great amounts of effort exploring, testing and debating the 'best' platter bearing (etc.) lubricants for, e.g., Thorens TD-124 turntables. :)

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,073
    edited December 2018
    halo wrote: »
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    How many hours on that TT? Try oiling the upper motor bearing/bushing if it's dry.
    Can't say for sure but Aaron said it looked to be in very good shape when he went through it for me. In fact, this is the table you saw at Aaron's. I do have the appropriate Technics oil so I can apply some oil to the bearing.
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Does your doctor wife have a stethoscope? Listen to your tables heart beat.... I have a mechanical 'scope that I've used when building tables.
    lol. She's a Ph. D. not an MD or a DO. So, no stethoscopes here.


    Overruled.
    I'm a PhD, and we've got one :p

    Heck, I'll bet the Tappet Brothers had 'em -- and those guys went to MIT.


    9v6dxidlq429.png

  • halohalo Posts: 4,899
    mhardy6647 wrote: »

    Overruled.
    I'm a PhD, and we've got one :p

    Heck, I'll bet the Tappet Brothers had 'em -- and those guys went to MIT.

    My ex-wife was a nursing student for a brief time. She left her stethoscope but I don’t think that I kept it.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,073
    I think mine was from my mother, now that you mention it :p She was a nurse.
  • halohalo Posts: 4,899
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    May I ask why a bad tube could cause woofer pumping? Just curious.

    I am thinking of infrasonic oscillation, although something in the circuit is more likely than the tube to be the culprit in such a case.

    So, using just the Art DJ Pre II without the subsonic filter engaged produces cone excursion. With the subsonic filter engaged the cone excursion, if any, is associated directly with the music reproduction. So, I opine, the tubes are not causing the issue.

    I'm still looking for the Technics turntable bearing oil I bought a year ago. I sent it to Aaron when he went through the SL-Q2 with a fine-toothed comb and I know he sent it back to me but I have to find it as it isn't with my other turntable "gear."
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 21,073
    halo wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    May I ask why a bad tube could cause woofer pumping? Just curious.

    I am thinking of infrasonic oscillation, although something in the circuit is more likely than the tube to be the culprit in such a case.

    So, using just the Art DJ Pre II without the subsonic filter engaged produces cone excursion. With the subsonic filter engaged the cone excursion, if any, is associated directly with the music reproduction. So, I opine, the tubes are not causing the issue.

    I'm still looking for the Technics turntable bearing oil I bought a year ago. I sent it to Aaron when he went through the SL-Q2 with a fine-toothed comb and I know he sent it back to me but I have to find it as it isn't with my other turntable "gear."

    I concur with your assessment -- and if you posted that before and I missed it, I am sorry! :|


  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 7,054
    edited December 2018
    halo wrote: »
    lol. She's a Ph. D. not an MD or a DO. So, no stethoscopes here.
    She's still a doc, right? :)

    Aaron would have taken care of it. I saw him with a grease gun lubing everything.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • halohalo Posts: 4,899
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    halo wrote: »
    lol. She's a Ph. D. not an MD or a DO. So, no stethoscopes here.
    She's still a doc, right? :)

    Yes, she’s got her doctorate degree in biological sciences from Northwestern. So, technically, she is a doctor of philosophy in biological sciences. She is not a medical doctor or a doctor of osteopathy. She doesn’t see patients. She does research in a lab. Similar to doc hardy @mhardy6647
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 7,054
    edited December 2018
    halo wrote: »

    Yes, she’s got her doctorate degree in biological sciences from Northwestern. So, technically, she is a doctor of philosophy in biological sciences. She is not a medical doctor or a doctor of osteopathy. She doesn’t see patients. She does research in a lab. Similar to doc hardy @mhardy6647

    My point was you don't say "hey, phd," you say "hey, doc" like you just said doc Hardy... :)

    OK I'll stop...
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • halohalo Posts: 4,899
    SCompRacer wrote: »

    My point was you don't say "hey, phd," you say "hey, doc." :)

    That’s an interesting point you bring up. Yes, she is Dr. Mendoza. But, most people don’t call her “doctor” unless they’re undergrad students and they’re being respectful. Her colleagues typically address her by her first name. Some of her former professors said, “hello doctor.” after she received her Ph. D. That was a very nice way of respecting the title and degree she recently earned and a nice way of welcoming her into their ranks.

    Does that make sense or am I bad at explaining the difference? I mean, anyone who wants to call her doctor can do so and be 100% correct.
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