Amplifier static click/pop through speaker when turning on & off

2

Comments

  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,875
    What does Verty Audio say about fixing them?

    Does Verty Audio know of any problems arising with these amps happening across the line of mono blocks?
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    edited December 2018
    Hey Tony. I've not yet contacted Verty Audio about the issue, but that will be the next step if the strange behavior/random static popping doesn't go away, as they are still under warranty for another month.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,046
    anything else different in your home (or neighborhood) that may be generating transients on the circuit? Festive holiday trappings?

    Is the heat running more (or differently) than it was pre-click?
    It is getting that time of year (even where you live). I know from our time living there that Californians break out the parkas when the temperatures get into the 40s. :)
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    If I am interpreting the layout of the breaker box correctly, this room has it's own 20a circuit. Meaning that there is a dedicated switch labeled "bedroom" inside the box, that controls power to every outlet in that room if you switch it off. Of course, there could be another outlet/fixture on that circuit as well I suppose, but I don't believe there is. Each room seems to have it's own 20a circuit. I could take a photo of the panel if that would help.

    So, if there was additional high current draw things such as space heaters, they would be on my downstairs neighbor's power. Not to say that couldn't also affect mine since technically everything is connected/shared in some fashion I suppose.

    In regards to heat/ambient temp, there's no central heat in this building and so if heaters would be running more it would be the in-wall gas powered style or an electric space heater from the neighbor.

    One test I thought of is bringing the amplifier to work (different power source) and hooking up an old speaker to it, again with nothing plugged into the input, and seeing if it still makes that loud buzzing sound with nothing attached. I'm not really sure what this would prove though, as it is already fairly obvious that that behavior is something related to how the amp behaves when there's nothing attached to the input and then input isn't shorted. Although I guess it would rule out an issue with my apartment's power.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,046
    edited December 2018
    I wouldn't do that again, were I you. You'd be much better off to buy or make a pair of shorting plugs for the inputs if you want to continue to explore the origin of the pops/static... but have you tried the experiment with the amp(s) on but the preamp/sources off, but still (fully) connected? Might be safer and might be more informative. Or not :p

    The noise may not come in on the line (AC mains) per se; it may be induced. Random pops/noise -- if not due to a failing component (!) -- strike me as symptomatic of a relay operating somewhere in the environment... which makes me think of refrigerator, water heater, furnace, heat pump, microwave, pump, electric stove/oven, etc. Some high current draw gizmo that uses a relay to turn itself on (EDIT) or that has some inductive component (e.g., a motor starting up) to its turn-on that generates some electrical 'noise' in the environment.

    Also, anything that generates RF output by its very function (WiFi, Bluetooth, and any device containing a microprocessor, which has a very, very high frequency - nowadays GHz - oscillator providing its timing) is always a suspect when there are noise (pulsatile or steady-state) issues.


  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    edited December 2018
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    have you tried the experiment with the amp(s) on but the preamp/sources off, but still (fully) connected?

    Yes, I tried it with the preamp connected but off, and the right amp still made a static click through the speaker upon powering on and off. Left amp was silent upon power on and off.
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    The noise may not come in on the line (AC mains) per se; it may be induced. Random pops/noise -- if not due to a failing component (!) -- strike me as symptomatic of a relay operating somewhere in the environment... which makes me think of refrigerator, water heater, furnace, heat pump, microwave, pump, electric stove/oven, etc. Some high current draw gizmo that uses a relay to turn itself on (EDIT) or that has some inductive component (e.g., a motor starting up) to its turn-on that generates some electrical 'noise' in the environment.

    I was listening earlier while my wife was in the kitchen using the toaster and microwave, and I heard the fridge compressor kick on at one point. I could also hear the high pitched whine of the water heater exhaust fan running from downstairs in it's little room. None of this produced any sort of popping or static noise through the speakers.

    Additionally, I tried a test the other day where I was running the vacuum cleaner on a different circuit, and I walked into the bedroom and shut the door to see if I could hear anything coming out of the speakers. Nothing except for the standard faint white noise hiss that you hear when you put your ear up to the tweeter. Same with the 1200w space heater that I have, when it's running, I don't hear anything audible coming out of the speakers. My wife has also used her blow dryer before while I've been listening and again, no static or other oddities were heard through the system.

    So, these operating conditions have pretty much been the same in the year that I've been using these amps, and I've never heard anything but sweet sounding music coming from them up until this point.
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Also, anything that generates RF output by its very function (WiFi, Bluetooth, and any device containing a microprocessor, which has a very, very high frequency - nowadays GHz - oscillator providing its timing) is always a suspect when there are noise (pulsatile or steady-state) issues.

    RF noise is a valid point to consider. I haven't personally added any new equipment that would be adding to the level of RF, but who knows what my neighbors are doing.

    The only thing that really changed is putting in the matching preamp as far as I can tell.

    Anyway, when I was listening earlier tonight and about 3/4 the way through the first CD, I heard two static clicks/pops about 7 seconds apart. Second CD, nothing. Third CD, nothing. So I'm hesitant to just initiate a warranty claim straight away, as the problem is not easily repeatable, and the vendor could easily say "well we tested them for an hour and we didn't hear anything strange, they seem to be working as intended."
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,046
    edited December 2018
    Could be emanating from the preamp...
    Was the preamp new, or new to you?

    Yes, intermittents are the worst. If it is a component failing, it will (it should) get worse. How long is the warranty? :|
  • tratlifftratliff Posts: 673
    Have we not been down this road before with the OP?

    Good luck with solving your problem. I'll just move on....
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Technics RS-1500, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection (Furutech) Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables

    Theater
    Yamaha RX-Z9, Legacy Focus SE (same as 2 Channel system), Def Tech C/L/R 2500, Def Tech BP-2X, Def Tech Pro-Monitors, Vizio M-75

    Office
    Teac NP-H750, Parasound Ztuner, Audio Engine P4N, Grado SR80, Grado iGrado, Audio-Technica ATH-M50, PC running High Rez files

    Living Room
    Yamaha YSP-4100 digital sound projector, Sharp Aquos 60"

    Bed Room
    Yamaha YSP-5100 digital sound projector, Sharp Aquos 70"

  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 1,511
    That doesn't seem like a nice thing to post, should have moved on before you clicked "post comment"
    2ch: PS Audio Stellar Gain pre, 4 x Linn LK240 monoblocks ( bi-amping) Elac Adante AF-61's, SVS SB16 Ultra Subwoofer, Cambridge Audio CXN v2, Rega Planar 2 with upgrades, Vincent PHO 701 Phono pre, Audioquest Niagara 1000, AQ Thunder, AQ XLR's and IC's, Wireworld Stratus and Aurora power cables, Atlas EOS power cable, Denon 2910 (as transport) Sony CPD355 Jukebox cd

    5.1: Marantz sr5003 (feeding mains through HT bypass) Sonus Faber solo center, AQ Carbon HDMI's, Sony XBRx900E, Xbox One S as 4k player, Definitive Technology SM350's surrounds, Tivo Bolt, Harmony Elite remote

    Other gear: Totem Rainmakers (not hooked up) Sonos play 5 and play 1's x 2, Audio Technica TT and Edifier active speakers in kids room, JVC XM448 minidisc rack mount, Sony minidisc walkman, Project Debut III (currently not working), Samsung 46, and 2 x32" tvs, Samsung Soundbar, Okki Nokki LP cleaner, Second Harmony remote setup for bedroom, etc etc
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Could be emanating from the preamp...
    Was the preamp new, or new to you?

    Yes, intermittents are the worst. If it is a component failing, it will (it should) get worse. How long is the warranty? :|

    The preamp was sold as new. Warranty on the monoblocks is good for another month.

    I will listen to the system a few more days this week and observe it's behavior, to see if I continue to hear random intermittent static pops/clicks.

    Then, I will switch out the preamp and go from there.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,046
    Well, as best I understand it, the problem correlates with the preamp delta. So I'd be focused there, were it me... and I wouldn't be too worried about the power amps (irrespective of their warranty status). YMMV :|

    ... although, of course, correlation does not imply causation* :)

    If you have a preamp to switch to... yeah... switch!
    I guess I thought you didn't.

    __________________________
    * https://xkcd.com/552/
    bxtcff6lbed1.png
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    edited December 2018
    I heard some more random static pop noises through my speakers yesterday and tonight. Also tonight after I played the first CD and went to go change it while no music was playing, I noticed that the amplifiers were both producing an audible transformer hum/buzz.

    Up until this point for nearly the year that I've been using these amps, I've NEVER heard any audible transformer noise coming from them while powered on during normal use. I think this probably isn't a coincidence and that there's something going on with the amplifiers.

    I've reached out to Verty Audio and Dayens regarding making a possible warranty claim and asked them how to proceed.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 1,511
    Glad to hear. Hope they are respectable and do right by you Drew.
    2ch: PS Audio Stellar Gain pre, 4 x Linn LK240 monoblocks ( bi-amping) Elac Adante AF-61's, SVS SB16 Ultra Subwoofer, Cambridge Audio CXN v2, Rega Planar 2 with upgrades, Vincent PHO 701 Phono pre, Audioquest Niagara 1000, AQ Thunder, AQ XLR's and IC's, Wireworld Stratus and Aurora power cables, Atlas EOS power cable, Denon 2910 (as transport) Sony CPD355 Jukebox cd

    5.1: Marantz sr5003 (feeding mains through HT bypass) Sonus Faber solo center, AQ Carbon HDMI's, Sony XBRx900E, Xbox One S as 4k player, Definitive Technology SM350's surrounds, Tivo Bolt, Harmony Elite remote

    Other gear: Totem Rainmakers (not hooked up) Sonos play 5 and play 1's x 2, Audio Technica TT and Edifier active speakers in kids room, JVC XM448 minidisc rack mount, Sony minidisc walkman, Project Debut III (currently not working), Samsung 46, and 2 x32" tvs, Samsung Soundbar, Okki Nokki LP cleaner, Second Harmony remote setup for bedroom, etc etc
  • DaveHoDaveHo Posts: 2,058
    Getting close to winter. It's pretty dry here. Possible static electricity discharging through the system somehow? When I use my TT in the winter I have to be really careful not to send a shot of static through the system. After taking a record off the platter I will occasionally get some static discharge which can be heard through the speakers.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    edited December 2018
    It was only one time that I heard the static pop after playing vinyl. The majority of the time that I've heard the random static pops has been while playing CDs.

    I've also been using this same setup since January (last winter). Just in the past week is the first time I've been starting to hear the random static pops coming through the speakers.

    The first 5 consecutive days with the new preamp in the system were flawless, no issues. I didn't change anything since I put the preamp in.
    Post edited by Clipdat on
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,008
    Gremlins.....
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,046
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Gremlins.....

    h29nu5k9m5r2.png
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    168951_1.jpg
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    Small update on this, I've been testing the last three days with a different preamp and I haven't heard any static pops.

    So, I believe I can safely say that it's not the monoblock power amplifiers that are the source of the issues. I do still get a slight static pop on power up/down on the right one, as well as this new intermittent transformer humming that seems to come and go, but neither of those things affect the sound quality so it's not really a problem to me.

    I will test out the Dayens Ampino preamp again this weekend with just one CD player source hooked up to it, and go from there. My suspicion is that it's potentially my always-on phono preamp that isn't getting along well with it. Will report back soon.

    By the way, Zoran at Dayens has been excellent throughout this process, providing great guidance and support via email. I sincerely appreciate his customer service.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    edited December 2018
    I've just completed 4 consecutive days of testing with the Dayens Ampino preamp hooked back up, and have not heard anymore random static pops during playback.

    I hooked it up with only one CD player source for the first 3 days, and then today hooked up another CD player to the first input where the phono preamp previously was connected. No issues at all, just beautiful sounding music.

    So, I think it is safe to say that the issue was related to the always-on phono preamp not playing nicely with the Ampino preamp. I should have done thorough troubleshooting and ruled everything out before assuming the issue was with the power amplifiers. However, I just did not think that a phono preamp connected to an unselected input could affect a completely different source playing back on another selected and separate input.

    I've reached out to Dayens for possible clarification on why this might be. Perhaps it has something to do with the direct coupled design, or if the inputs and outputs all share the same internal ground. It could also have something to do with how the input selection function is engineered. Maybe with a super minimalist design like this, these types of issues are going to be more common versus with a mass market preamp that has more relays/protection in the signal path.

    Anyway, I'm glad that both the power amps and preamp won't require any sort of warranty repair or service.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 1,511
    Good news Drew. It’s never nice to have to part with gear for service.
    2ch: PS Audio Stellar Gain pre, 4 x Linn LK240 monoblocks ( bi-amping) Elac Adante AF-61's, SVS SB16 Ultra Subwoofer, Cambridge Audio CXN v2, Rega Planar 2 with upgrades, Vincent PHO 701 Phono pre, Audioquest Niagara 1000, AQ Thunder, AQ XLR's and IC's, Wireworld Stratus and Aurora power cables, Atlas EOS power cable, Denon 2910 (as transport) Sony CPD355 Jukebox cd

    5.1: Marantz sr5003 (feeding mains through HT bypass) Sonus Faber solo center, AQ Carbon HDMI's, Sony XBRx900E, Xbox One S as 4k player, Definitive Technology SM350's surrounds, Tivo Bolt, Harmony Elite remote

    Other gear: Totem Rainmakers (not hooked up) Sonos play 5 and play 1's x 2, Audio Technica TT and Edifier active speakers in kids room, JVC XM448 minidisc rack mount, Sony minidisc walkman, Project Debut III (currently not working), Samsung 46, and 2 x32" tvs, Samsung Soundbar, Okki Nokki LP cleaner, Second Harmony remote setup for bedroom, etc etc
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,875
    That is great news.

    So now you need another phono pre-amp to hook up to your Dayens.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    Tony M wrote: »
    That is great news.

    So now you need another phono pre-amp to hook up to your Dayens.

    Yes indeed. I am now in the market for a phono preamp with a power switch/button! I think I want to buy one today!
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 1,511
    Didn’t you tell me no more til the new year Mr Ruby?!??
    2ch: PS Audio Stellar Gain pre, 4 x Linn LK240 monoblocks ( bi-amping) Elac Adante AF-61's, SVS SB16 Ultra Subwoofer, Cambridge Audio CXN v2, Rega Planar 2 with upgrades, Vincent PHO 701 Phono pre, Audioquest Niagara 1000, AQ Thunder, AQ XLR's and IC's, Wireworld Stratus and Aurora power cables, Atlas EOS power cable, Denon 2910 (as transport) Sony CPD355 Jukebox cd

    5.1: Marantz sr5003 (feeding mains through HT bypass) Sonus Faber solo center, AQ Carbon HDMI's, Sony XBRx900E, Xbox One S as 4k player, Definitive Technology SM350's surrounds, Tivo Bolt, Harmony Elite remote

    Other gear: Totem Rainmakers (not hooked up) Sonos play 5 and play 1's x 2, Audio Technica TT and Edifier active speakers in kids room, JVC XM448 minidisc rack mount, Sony minidisc walkman, Project Debut III (currently not working), Samsung 46, and 2 x32" tvs, Samsung Soundbar, Okki Nokki LP cleaner, Second Harmony remote setup for bedroom, etc etc
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    I never said any such thing.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    Just got two more static pops through both speakers tonight. First was when a track was ending and fading out, second was after the CD had ended and the system was just sitting idle for 15 seconds or so, just a random POP through both speakers.

    So now I don't know what to think. The preamp had 4 CD players total connected to it, and I was using the Ruby on input number 4. The three other players were powered off.

    I guess if it continues to happen I'm just going to take everything apart/unhook everything and then put it all back together. Not sure what else to do at this point. Maybe such a touchy/minimalist direct coupled type preamp isn't a good fit for me/my system.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    I am super frustrated by this whole debacle because I seriously love the way the Dayens Ampino Preamp sounds with their matching Ampino Monoblocks, but with every static pop what's left of my sanity rapidly dwindles away.

    I'm bubbling up and reaching a boiling point of just throwing money at my system until the static popping problem goes away.

    To their credit, Dayens did offer to take the Ampino Preamp in for service and put capacitors in the signal path which would absorb/negate the DC that's potentially the cause. But in turn I think that would affect the audio quality negatively. The old "capacitors in the signal path=bad" type mentality.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,046
    Well, there are components that couple stages with transformers instead of capacitors, you know? Those isolate against DC, too -- and can sound sublime -- but things will get a tad pricey.

  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,875
    Can you ground your Ruby to your rack with a small thin wire just for static charge?
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,237
    Tony M wrote: »
    Can you ground your Ruby to your rack with a small thin wire just for static charge?

    I'm not sure what the purpose of doing that would be.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
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