SRS SDA excursion difference?!?
drnodegree
Posts: 7
I was listening to some music at relatively high levels (just below polyswitch kick out ;o) ) and noticed that the Right channel had a different/odd excursion that was much more "intense" than the left channel. This is only obvious at HIGH volumes.
The amp is new , the pre-amp is new and the speakers are not under powered etc.
Amp: Emotiva XPA2 gen3 (300w/channel 8 ohms)
Pre: Marantz AV 8802a
My first thought was that the speaker was "out of phase" but I don't have the guts to switch the speaker leads to find out...Not knowing what would happen with the interconnect if I did so?!?
--> What would happen if I switched speaker lead?!?
It almost looks as though the speakers are "sucking in" instead of throwing out when you would expect them to be throwing out (if that makes sense).
Short Video attempting to capture the difference.
https://youtu.be/Pz5QRzRgIfU
My perception is the left channel also sounds better!.
Any thoughts on what this may be?
The amp is new , the pre-amp is new and the speakers are not under powered etc.
Amp: Emotiva XPA2 gen3 (300w/channel 8 ohms)
Pre: Marantz AV 8802a
My first thought was that the speaker was "out of phase" but I don't have the guts to switch the speaker leads to find out...Not knowing what would happen with the interconnect if I did so?!?
--> What would happen if I switched speaker lead?!?
It almost looks as though the speakers are "sucking in" instead of throwing out when you would expect them to be throwing out (if that makes sense).
Short Video attempting to capture the difference.
https://youtu.be/Pz5QRzRgIfU
My perception is the left channel also sounds better!.
Any thoughts on what this may be?
Post edited by [Deleted User] on
Comments
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Welcome to the forum @drnodegree I have no degree either, looks like we are off to a good start.
It does seem like the phase may be reversed so my first question would be if you look on the back of the speakers the red nut on the speaker wire terminal is it on the left or right? Does it seems like ALL the drivers on the right speaker act the same, it did to me but you are a better judge.
The only issue I have had with reversing polarity happened to be at the amp level and I blew a fuse in the amp (Interconnect was connected at the time). Not hard to replace, took me all of 10 minutes including the trip to home depot to pick them up.
Nice speakers by the way! I have always wanted to hear a pair but I am pretty content with my upgraded 2Bs. Please do stick around and let me know how troubleshooting goes. We have a LOT of knowledgeable people here, i'm just a lowly peon in comparison but I will help as much as I can.Just a dude doing dude-ly things
"Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
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"Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
"Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
"Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member -
Thanks codycatalist....yes there are a lot of peeps here with way more experience with these speakers than I have!
Nothing is different or odd about the connections at the back of the speaker either....
If you blew a fuse with the interconnect cable connected after switching leads...that's an acceptable fix...but I wouldn't want to risk any other damage!!!
I will have to "experiment" some more this weekend!
I don't get many opportunities to listen to it at the louder levels so I hadn't really noticed it before....
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With no music playing. if you push on the passive radiator, do the mid-woofers push out & stay out for the same amount of time on both speakers? Kind of looks like a leaky cabinet to me. If it passes that test, next up would be to pull each mid-woofer & make sure they are wired correctly.
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With no music playing. if you push on the passive radiator, do the mid-woofers push out & stay out for the same amount of time on both speakers? Kind of looks like a leaky cabinet to me. If it passes that test, next up would be to pull each mid-woofer & make sure they are wired correctly.
Imagine for some reason ALL the mid drivers are out of phase. On some 1.2s that would be chore to correct haha!Just a dude doing dude-ly things
"Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
" I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
"Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
"Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
"Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member -
I had just replaced the tweeters and put new seals on all the speakers as well as sound deadening on the baskets. It is possible that the seal has compressed slightly; I will check the seals and any "loose screws" this weekend!
Thanks.With no music playing. if you push on the passive radiator, do the mid-woofers push out & stay out for the same amount of time on both speakers? Kind of looks like a leaky cabinet to me. If it passes that test, next up would be to pull each mid-woofer & make sure they are wired correctly.
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What tweeters do you have? RD0194's or RD0198's? Is the interconnect socket pin/blade or blade/blade? If it's blade/blade, the positive binding post nuts (red) should be on the right. If it's pin/blade, the positive should be on the left.SDA SRS 2.3TL's
Silk Audio MS-90-BT integrated tube amp
Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
SDA 2B TL's -
michaeljhsda2 wrote: »What tweeters do you have? RD0194's or RD0198's? Is the interconnect socket pin/blade or blade/blade? If it's blade/blade, the positive binding post nuts (red) should be on the right. If it's pin/blade, the positive should be on the left.
This^^^^^^^^
On the original 2nd/3rd generation SRS reversed the binding posts.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
I put RDO194's in...
it is a blade-blade interconnect.
I will have to look at the positioning of the binding posts this weekend. I haven't done anything with the binding posts...they have been the same since factory, I think I was the first one to open these speakers up.michaeljhsda2 wrote: »What tweeters do you have? RD0194's or RD0198's? Is the interconnect socket pin/blade or blade/blade? If it's blade/blade, the positive binding post nuts (red) should be on the right. If it's pin/blade, the positive should be on the left.
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drnodegree wrote: »I had just replaced the tweeters and put new seals on all the speakers as well as sound deadening on the baskets. It is possible that the seal has compressed slightly; I will check the seals and any "loose screws" this weekend!
Thanks.With no music playing. if you push on the passive radiator, do the mid-woofers push out & stay out for the same amount of time on both speakers? Kind of looks like a leaky cabinet to me. If it passes that test, next up would be to pull each mid-woofer & make sure they are wired correctly.
Why did you replace the gaskets and what did you use?
Since you removed the drivers there's a possibility you didn't reconnect them properly.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I pulled one driver at a time and there is only one way to put them back on...no chance they weren't reconnected properly.
The gaskets are special gasket tape <1/8" thick and punched holes for the screws. There is a chance it compressed since the screws were tightened down and perhaps it isn't air tight. I will check that this weekend....
I hope that is all it is....some leaking air!!!drnodegree wrote: »I had just replaced the tweeters and put new seals on all the speakers as well as sound deadening on the baskets. It is possible that the seal has compressed slightly; I will check the seals and any "loose screws" this weekend!
Thanks.With no music playing. if you push on the passive radiator, do the mid-woofers push out & stay out for the same amount of time on both speakers? Kind of looks like a leaky cabinet to me. If it passes that test, next up would be to pull each mid-woofer & make sure they are wired correctly.
Why did you replace the gaskets and what did you use?
Since you removed the drivers there's a possibility you didn't reconnect them properly.
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You should use something called Armacell
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Armacell-2-in-x-30-ft-R-1-Foam-Insulation-Tape-TAP18230/100539553
This stuff has the compressibility to match or better the original gasket material, and is the recommended choice here for replacing the stuck gaskets if needed.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
drnodegree wrote: »I pulled one driver at a time and there is only one way to put them back on...no chance they weren't reconnected properly.
The gaskets are special gasket tape <1/8" thick and punched holes for the screws. There is a chance it compressed since the screws were tightened down and perhaps it isn't air tight. I will check that this weekend....
I hope that is all it is....some leaking air!!!drnodegree wrote: »I had just replaced the tweeters and put new seals on all the speakers as well as sound deadening on the baskets. It is possible that the seal has compressed slightly; I will check the seals and any "loose screws" this weekend!
Thanks.With no music playing. if you push on the passive radiator, do the mid-woofers push out & stay out for the same amount of time on both speakers? Kind of looks like a leaky cabinet to me. If it passes that test, next up would be to pull each mid-woofer & make sure they are wired correctly.
Why did you replace the gaskets and what did you use?
Since you removed the drivers there's a possibility you didn't reconnect them properly.
The fastons will fit either terminal, so it is possible to get them mixed up.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
What is your source? If your using a turntable, it could be rumble. In my system, the rumble was only in the right channel, so that may be the case in yours as well.
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In your video, you seem to focus the attention more on the right-side drivers of the right speaker, and also the right-side drivers of the left speaker.
The right-side drivers of the right speaker are the dimensional drivers, and the right-side drivers of the left speaker are the stereo drivers.
I'm not well versed in that particular SDA-SRS speaker but, correct me if I'm wrong, I assume they operate similarly where the dimensional drivers handle the bass below 150Hz?
Edited to include: Also the out of phase signal for the opposite speaker, but I was focusing more on the bass signals.
Maybe that's what you're seeing....but not discounting what others suggested in regards to polarity and leaks. -
I agree with what others have said to check for air leaks first....but also.....
What is your source? (it almost appears to be rumble or a warp, but not sure)
Are your tone controls set to flat?
Is the left speaker in a corner and the right not so close to a corner? -
In your video, you seem to focus the attention more on the right-side drivers of the right speaker, and also the right-side drivers of the left speaker.
The right-side drivers of the right speaker are the dimensional drivers, and the right-side drivers of the left speaker are the stereo drivers.
I'm not well versed in that particular SDA-SRS speaker but, correct me if I'm wrong, I assume they operate similarly where the dimensional drivers handle the bass below 150Hz?
Edited to include: Also the out of phase signal for the opposite speaker, but I was focusing more on the bass signals.
Maybe that's what you're seeing....but not discounting what others suggested in regards to polarity and leaks.
If I play test tones on my pair, all the drivers move approximately the same amount, whether dimensional or the stereo drivers.
Since it is low passed at about 150 hz, they all get approx, the same amount of bass signal. -
From experience the MW6511's have a lot of excursion, I swapped them out for 6502's and alleviated the issue. By ear I couldn't hear much difference in the midrange.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Having a lot of excursion is not a problem and may in fact be desired.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
From experience the MW6511's have a lot of excursion, I swapped them out for 6502's and alleviated the issue. By ear I couldn't hear much difference in the midrange.
The midrange would not change, but deep bass would. You've de-tuned the cabinet.
Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Yes, the trade-off was a few lower Hz for higher volume. In addition to looking like the 6511's were about to pop at high volume, the higher excursion of the 6511's did muddy the midrange as well. At moderate volume levels, I didn't hear a midrange difference, I should have added.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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From experience the MW6511's have a lot of excursion, I swapped them out for 6502's and alleviated the issue.
Out of curiosity, was this on the original crossover?
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Yes, factory CRS+ crossovers. Incidentally, the CRS+ crossovers in Monitor 10s sound just as great with one of the 6503's swapped to a 6502 for the SDA driver. Indeed, the 6511's dig deeper, but also has high excursion in the larger enclosure/PR combo.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Yes, factory CRS+ crossovers. Incidentally, the CRS+ crossovers in Monitor 10s sound just as great with one of the 6503's swapped to a 6502 for the SDA driver. Indeed, the 6511's dig deeper, but also has high excursion in the larger enclosure/PR combo.
I don't have all the stats in front of me, perhaps others can chime in, but like westmassguy stated, you have changed the tune of the speaker. Those drivers are spec'd for that enclosure and that particular crossover. Did you factor in the possible, well-aged components of the crossover that are likely due for replacement, that are possibly contributing to your muddy midrange?
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Both sets of CRS+ crossovers were recapped. Pics of mine are here.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Yes, factory CRS+ crossovers. Incidentally, the CRS+ crossovers in Monitor 10s sound just as great with one of the 6503's swapped to a 6502 for the SDA driver. Indeed, the 6511's dig deeper, but also has high excursion in the larger enclosure/PR combo.
Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Exactly. That's why you substitute the 6503 for a 6502/6511 in the SDA-10.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Exactly. That's why you substitute the 6503 for a 6502/6511 in the SDA-10.
Can you explain "why" you would use a 4 ohm driver in place of an 8 ohm driver? I'm just trying to understand, because in my limited amount of expertise I can give, you could be changing the crossover network as much as a whole octave or more.
That's substantial. -
Because you swap in the CRS+ crossover?Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Exactly. That's why you substitute the 6503 for a 6502/6511 in the SDA-10.
Can you explain "why" you would use a 4 ohm driver in place of an 8 ohm driver? I'm just trying to understand, because in my limited amount of expertise I can give, you could be changing the crossover network as much as a whole octave or more.
That's substantial.
Driver swaps based solely on Nominal Impedance are 6503/6510 (8 Ohm), 6502/6511 (4 Ohm).
The M10 came with two 6503 drivers. The later pin/blade CRS+ models came with either a 6503 or 6510 and a 6511. To have the SDA work properly with the CRS+ crossover in an M10, now SDA-10 you also need to replace one of the 6503 drivers with the proper 4 Ohm 6511 driver, or 6502 in @xschop 's case. -
Seems we lost the O.P.