Monitor 5/5A Upgrade worth it?

Viking64

mhardy6647 wrote: »

I don't know about small monkey coffin type enclosures, though -- especially when loaded with a PR.

If a monkey shows up for work loaded, they usually get sent to HR, not PR.

FestYboy

Ok, now rockwool I've seen used in enclosures (both ported and non). It is a good analog for polyfill, fiberglass or wool batting as acoustically it has similar properties.

westmassguy

It's also used as fire-proofing on kitchen exhausts in restaurants.
Like fiberglass, it should never be used in a ported enclosure, for heath reasons.

[Deleted User]

"I know all about coffins.....just saying."
Do you prefer Translyvanian cedar or oak?

FestYboy

KennethSwauger wrote: »

"I know all about coffins.....just saying."
Do you prefer Translyvanian cedar or oak?

I'm thinking Ash...

mhardy6647

reminds me of a bad old joke that I won't repeat here.

F1nut

KennethSwauger wrote: »

"I know all about coffins.....just saying."
Do you prefer Translyvanian cedar or oak?

Cedar Ken, it has a nice aroma.

tonyb

ZaPHoN wrote: »

Can we please keep this on topic!

Sure we can, the guys are just having a bit of fun is all.

I believe you already got your answer. Bringing those old crossovers up to date will certainly help that somewhat "veiled" sound you hear. If you can't do the work yourself, there are a few here who you can ship them to and they'll rebuild them for a very reasonable price.

If you don't mind us asking too, what's the rest of the system and cabling look like ? Sometimes a veiled sound isn't always all about the speaker.

nooshinjohn

Get the parts and send them to me. Happy to do them for free.

If you are in so cal I will be happy to teach you how to solder.

ZaPHoN

Ontario Canada otherwise I'd be showing up with some drink.

They will be a project for my daughter and I to do together as they are simple electronics. Dolls never cut it for her. I just wanted to make sure if there was a crossover mod that can improve them I'd take that route as apposed to a simple refresh.

Right now they are serving as rears on a 7.1 but pulled them down to try out on the McIntosh I just scored and a Miniwatt N3. That's when I noticed some mid frequencies sounded weak in some songs. Granted some speakers serve up different frequencies better than others but after seeing what the Miniwatt N3 could do on them I was surprised so I thought I would polk around here to see if a simple crossover refresh would improve them and if so then was there a mod that can take them even further.

Speaker wire is just regular 12 gauge but I'll be making some nice ones with daughter too. Going to be doing some searching to try and drop down EM issues as well. Office is really bad for EM. I have a FIIO Olympus that has to sit is one special place to avoid EM interference. Move it four inches in the wrong spot and I can hear noise over headphones. Increase the gain on it and the noise is constant. Can't even talk on cell phone in office.

Daughter and I will use them to warm on on before we tackle the CRS I'll probably pick up this weekend.

Only issue is I'm running out of room and when I get the SRS's in place the 1B's will have to find a corner to hide in for the time being. I don't want to get rid of them because they are mint condition.

P.S. "Polk around" was deliberate :-)

tonyb

Cool man, refreshing the crossovers vs. moding them with upgraded parts, depends on what your willing to spend. Caps and such have a variety of real estate price wise. Personally, I wouldn't go crazy on them, every speaker has limitations no matter what you do to the crossovers. Just a refresh would open them up some, I would start there and see what it does for you and then reevaluate.

Might be better to wait too, save the 1B's for your daughter.

ZaPHoN

Refresh it is then. Thanks everyone for your help. Much appreciated.

F1nut

A small 3x3 piece of BH5 or Sonic Barrier behind the mid-driver will help clear up the mids. Securing the mid-drivers and PR's with Hurricane nuts and cap screws will help as well.

pkquat

WOW this thread detour.

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Keep 'em out of the corners and away from (rear) walls, if at all possible, too -- for best results.

Why is that? I felt the M5A's got some benefit from some bass reinforcement. The Series II were a little bit more boomy in the upper bass IMO, so I could see possibly keeping them further away. In an open room though, I thought they almost sounded worse, bottom roll off was more, and the upper bass peak appeared more noticeable, but I do know conditions may vary. I also have RD-0198's in mine

heiney9

OP,

To put my .o2c in since I have modded 5B's w/RD0 tweets.

Upgrade the caps with Either Clarity or Sonicap and the resistors with Mills wirewound non-inductive type. For this level of speaker I don't recommend replacing the inductors as the cost/benefit isn't there for these.

Replacing the old, worn electrolytic with fresh poly types will make a HUGE difference. If you have the sl2000 tweeter then replace with the correct RD0. If you have peerless, most people think those don't need replacing.

You may also want to use JB Weld or similar and put a bead around the magnets as the glue used is long passed its effectiveness and some of the driver models are getting harder and harder to find as there are a couple driver models Polk no longer manufactures. If the magnet shifts the driver is toast.

Take your time, document everything and have FUN! You will be rewarded.

H9

motorstereo

SoundMann1 wrote: »

And to think that the commercial carpet pad I mentioned wouldn't take up any precious cabinet volume unlike the expensive products one could spend their hard-earned money on? Blasphemy!



Confused newbie once again; Put the carpeting on the outside of the dual 12'' boomboxes in the back of the Honda Civics where it belongs

mhardy6647

pkquat wrote: »

WOW this thread detour.

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Keep 'em out of the corners and away from (rear) walls, if at all possible, too -- for best results.

Why is that? I felt the M5A's got some benefit from some bass reinforcement. The Series II were a little bit more boomy in the upper bass IMO, so I could see possibly keeping them further away. In an open room though, I thought they almost sounded worse, bottom roll off was more, and the upper bass peak appeared more noticeable, but I do know conditions may vary. I also have RD-0198's in mine

The S:N of this thread seems appropriately high enough to me, FWIW (other than some wacky asides related to cabinet damping), but that may be due to my decidedly left-handed/right-brained Weltanschauung.

So, the issues with corners and walls -- yes one can use corners for bass reinforcement, basically converting the corner into the expansion of a bass horn. The problem/issue (IMO, at least) is that the loudspeakers and their LF radiators weren't designed to be compression LF drivers but rather direct radiators -- as such, they're not the optimal driver for a de facto "corner horn". This is a long winded way of saying that, yes, you'll get more bass but the quality of that bass may or may not be to your liking.

Col. Paul W. Klipsch's vintage and venerable Klispchorn, a cleverly-designed folded bass horn, uses corner placement as an advantageous expansion of the LF horn (and to pretty good effect), but it also uses a purpose-designed woofer to energize the horn. Electrovoice, e.g., in the 1950s designed and supplied a woofer called the 15WK (K for Klipsch) designed for folded bass horns. It's a pretty beefy piece of hardware.


(one may barely see the stamped "K" in this otherwise nice photo of a 15WK woofer borrowed from the Klipsch forum)

Further (and, from my perspective, more importantly), putting the loudspeakers in a corner or near walls will adversely impact the depth and spaciousness of the stereo "image". There are (probably) good acoustic reasons for this -- in my case, it's basically an empirical observation (based on my Monitor 7A originally, and dating back to the 1970s).

On the bright side, one may experiment to one's heart's content (within the limitations of the space available!) with placement -- your 'sensitivities' and expectations to reproduction may well differ from mine, so, yes, I should have offered my comments as suggestions/opinions rather than an implication of their being immutable facts!

I.e., YMMV, as they say.

EDIT: Full disclosure, I am a horn kinda guy, although not really a Klipsch horn kind of guy! I lived with a pair of Cornwalls for a decade, but ditched 'em pretty quickly after acquiring my first pair of Altecs (Valencias).

machone

SoundMann1 wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

SoundMann1 wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

So far, your engineering knowledge/skills are less than impressive, but you seem to excel at digging holes.

You are either wholly dishonest, or intellectually inept to a rather gross degree!

You still haven't named them........waiting.

I have better things to do with my time than to waste it any further!

Goodbye

pkquat

Minor detour but a good one this time.

@mhardy6647 Good read. The corners make sense to me. What about just a back wall. A number of speakers recommend a set distance from a back wall for reinforcement. Does that still affect the perceived depth? I never really thought about that as having an effect so never took it into account.

PS me some Klipschhorns.

mhardy6647

again, my empirical experience with the Monitor series (mostly the 7, in full disclosure) is that when they're up against the wall, they sound very two dimensional. Pulling them out a few feet gives the sound depth.

In any given room, the effect on LF extension and "flatness" (or boost) as a function of distance from the back wall will be what it will be. There is probably an optimum distance for any given room.

Personally, I prefer the sound of the 5, 7 and 10 out from the walls and out from the corners (corner placement of loudspeakers was very unfashionable in the hifi ethos of the 1970s!), that's really all I can say.

YMMV, of course!

ZaPHoN

Thanks for the SDA cable sbb2112

StevePaige

heiney9 wrote: »

OP,

You may also want to use JB Weld or similar and put a bead around the magnets as the glue used is long passed its effectiveness and some of the driver models are getting harder and harder to find as there are a couple driver models Polk no longer manufactures. If the magnet shifts the driver is toast.

H9

I know that I am late to the thread, but I've recently acquired a set of Monitor 5s and am curious as to where exactly am I to apply the bead. A pic here would definitely be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

FestYboy

StevePaige wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

OP,

You may also want to use JB Weld or similar and put a bead around the magnets as the glue used is long passed its effectiveness and some of the driver models are getting harder and harder to find as there are a couple driver models Polk no longer manufactures. If the magnet shifts the driver is toast.

H9

I know that I am late to the thread, but I've recently acquired a set of Monitor 5s and am curious as to where exactly am I to apply the bead. A pic here would definitely be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Between the base plate and magnet, and pole plate and magnet

westmassguy

Apply it where the front plate meets the ceramic magnet, and where the back plate meets the ceramic magnet

StevePaige

FestYboy wrote: »

StevePaige wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

OP,

You may also want to use JB Weld or similar and put a bead around the magnets as the glue used is long passed its effectiveness and some of the driver models are getting harder and harder to find as there are a couple driver models Polk no longer manufactures. If the magnet shifts the driver is toast.

H9

I know that I am late to the thread, but I've recently acquired a set of Monitor 5s and am curious as to where exactly am I to apply the bead. A pic here would definitely be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Between the base plate and magnet, and pole plate and magnet

Thanks FestYboy!

westmassguy wrote: »

Apply it where the front plate meets the ceramic magnet, and where the back plate meets the ceramic magnet

Thanks westmassguy!

And now, because of these two responses, I now know what a "pole" plate is.

I've recently acquired a set of Monitor 5s with one unit having a PR with the entire surround split at it's apex and the other unit with a non Polk tweeter (the 1st unit has the Peerless). I've already received a replacement PR and tweeter as well as cap screws and hurricane nuts.

I am almost at the point of tackling my 1st speaker rebuild. My new work area is in the process of being put together as we are in the middle of a garage overhaul. Can't wait to get inside and see what values are on the caps (haven't found a schematic).

I've seen this 7A referenced when the 5A was being discussed but I haven't seen any corroboration on this.



Here are what mine look like...without the bad PR and non-oem tweet.



Thanks fellas for the quick response.