help; Wife issue, Need understanding of speaker ports; finishing 5.1, hiding speakers? help!
DragonTech
Posts: 5
Background info and setup:
I have been looking to complete my 5.1 setup for long time now, but space, money etc. I have not, its now 8 years latter. At some point I would like to upgrade to atmos, and wife and me would like to have a (small) Home theater room. That is the end goal for now its in the living room.
I went from stands to wall mounts ( DIY shelf ) because of baby (now 3).
My setup:
Montoir 40 (not series 2) (front left and right)
CS1 (not series 2) (center)
Bic venture v1020 (sub)
Onkyo Tx sr-507
We are getting ready to buy a home, and I was dwindling down the rear channel speaker choices for my setup, it was down to polk audio: rear port: monitor 30, tsi 100; front port: T15, RTI A1 (and forum suggestions ). I was thinking they would have to be wall mount, not alot of space atm, not sure about new home still looking.
Wife issue opinion:
She has not cared for the look of the wall mounted speakers / maybe even when they where on speaker stands (will check on this). her opinion they distract from the watching anything currently and Having "boxs" out in the living room is ugly and they have become the focal point of the room. TBH the placement is off, the room is small and they are 6 inches from the Tv, 38 inches off the ground. That puts them right in middle of the TV.
It has not been issue, but now we will be going somewhere semi permanent, till we save up and can resell and get a nicer home. You get the point.
I have showed here nice 5.1 setups with wall mounts and boxes on the wall, she liked it, but there was a lot of space in the "super nice living rooms" photos i showed. I dont think anything could make a room from $200k house look bad lol not in my price range.
I showed here photos of some floor standing units in smaller rooms they seemed to be okay.
Options:
Option 1:
I am on the market for rears for the 5.1. This gives great flexibility. I wanted to use the monitor 40 for the front sound stage, and use smaller cheaper in the back, But if I can get some matched floor standing units that would not overpower / make me need to upgrade all other items that may work and use the monitor 40 for rears.
How safe is it to buy used speakers? my setup is getting old, It may be hard to find voice matched items new.
Option 2: (long winded) learn about how sound waves and speaker ports work so I can place the speakers creatively.
Does the port and it placement just effect bass, or does it mess with mid and higher? Would having a nice subwoofer, and setting the crossover higher at 75-90 hz make placement a non-problem? Is my current sub good enough for such use?
Or
Would killing the bass in the front stage make the sound, sound bad?
Or
Would mounting the front speakers (left and right), too high or too low, but angled pointed at listening stage mess up sound quality? What if we toss in them being too far left or right to make them not a focal point.
What if I upgrade to atoms with front sound stage low/high and angled. Would it mess up the height effects?
Learning questions / ideas and examples:
basic idea:
Build them in wall, inside a box that ports back out in to the room. Ex: put build a whole in the wall that will flush mount the speakers, but give 1 foot space behind it and install curved vent that comes out the bottom or top. This can be masked by HAVC vents and decorative sound transparent materials.
Example concepts: How does each concept effect sound?
concept 1
Open room concept:
You have a 13’ x 28’ room because wall was deleted. At 14’ you have tv and rear ported speakers. The speakers point at viewing spot, but the ports fire in to and open 13’ x 14’ area behind them.
concept 2
In wall concept 1:
You install rear ported speakers in wall, there is 6 or so inches before the back of the wall, but the ports fire in the empty wall cavity
concept 3
In wall concept 2:
You install rear ported speakers in wall, but box them off making a sealed box.
concept 3.5
You install rear ported speakers in wall then box them off making a sealed box, but port the sealed box in to the listen area.
concept 4
Converting rear to front port:
You put speakers in an enclosure or in wall, but has a smooth curved bend that lets the air / sound that came from the port exit in the front of the speaker where the listen is aka right under the speaker below the woofer.
concept 5
Moving the port:
Speaker too close to the wall, so you add PVC pipe or a wooden box that attaches to the port allowing you to redirect the port output to the sides.
So how does each concepts effect sound? What are your ideas / opinion?
I have been looking to complete my 5.1 setup for long time now, but space, money etc. I have not, its now 8 years latter. At some point I would like to upgrade to atmos, and wife and me would like to have a (small) Home theater room. That is the end goal for now its in the living room.
I went from stands to wall mounts ( DIY shelf ) because of baby (now 3).
My setup:
Montoir 40 (not series 2) (front left and right)
CS1 (not series 2) (center)
Bic venture v1020 (sub)
Onkyo Tx sr-507
We are getting ready to buy a home, and I was dwindling down the rear channel speaker choices for my setup, it was down to polk audio: rear port: monitor 30, tsi 100; front port: T15, RTI A1 (and forum suggestions ). I was thinking they would have to be wall mount, not alot of space atm, not sure about new home still looking.
Wife issue opinion:
She has not cared for the look of the wall mounted speakers / maybe even when they where on speaker stands (will check on this). her opinion they distract from the watching anything currently and Having "boxs" out in the living room is ugly and they have become the focal point of the room. TBH the placement is off, the room is small and they are 6 inches from the Tv, 38 inches off the ground. That puts them right in middle of the TV.
It has not been issue, but now we will be going somewhere semi permanent, till we save up and can resell and get a nicer home. You get the point.
I have showed here nice 5.1 setups with wall mounts and boxes on the wall, she liked it, but there was a lot of space in the "super nice living rooms" photos i showed. I dont think anything could make a room from $200k house look bad lol not in my price range.
I showed here photos of some floor standing units in smaller rooms they seemed to be okay.
Options:
Option 1:
I am on the market for rears for the 5.1. This gives great flexibility. I wanted to use the monitor 40 for the front sound stage, and use smaller cheaper in the back, But if I can get some matched floor standing units that would not overpower / make me need to upgrade all other items that may work and use the monitor 40 for rears.
How safe is it to buy used speakers? my setup is getting old, It may be hard to find voice matched items new.
Option 2: (long winded) learn about how sound waves and speaker ports work so I can place the speakers creatively.
Does the port and it placement just effect bass, or does it mess with mid and higher? Would having a nice subwoofer, and setting the crossover higher at 75-90 hz make placement a non-problem? Is my current sub good enough for such use?
Or
Would killing the bass in the front stage make the sound, sound bad?
Or
Would mounting the front speakers (left and right), too high or too low, but angled pointed at listening stage mess up sound quality? What if we toss in them being too far left or right to make them not a focal point.
What if I upgrade to atoms with front sound stage low/high and angled. Would it mess up the height effects?
Learning questions / ideas and examples:
basic idea:
Build them in wall, inside a box that ports back out in to the room. Ex: put build a whole in the wall that will flush mount the speakers, but give 1 foot space behind it and install curved vent that comes out the bottom or top. This can be masked by HAVC vents and decorative sound transparent materials.
Example concepts: How does each concept effect sound?
concept 1
Open room concept:
You have a 13’ x 28’ room because wall was deleted. At 14’ you have tv and rear ported speakers. The speakers point at viewing spot, but the ports fire in to and open 13’ x 14’ area behind them.
concept 2
In wall concept 1:
You install rear ported speakers in wall, there is 6 or so inches before the back of the wall, but the ports fire in the empty wall cavity
concept 3
In wall concept 2:
You install rear ported speakers in wall, but box them off making a sealed box.
concept 3.5
You install rear ported speakers in wall then box them off making a sealed box, but port the sealed box in to the listen area.
concept 4
Converting rear to front port:
You put speakers in an enclosure or in wall, but has a smooth curved bend that lets the air / sound that came from the port exit in the front of the speaker where the listen is aka right under the speaker below the woofer.
concept 5
Moving the port:
Speaker too close to the wall, so you add PVC pipe or a wooden box that attaches to the port allowing you to redirect the port output to the sides.
So how does each concepts effect sound? What are your ideas / opinion?
Comments
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Dude, you are a bit long winded lol. But welcome to the forum!
The key question here is BUDGET? I think that your best, cleanest solution is to go all in-wall and in-ceiling surrounds with a better sub (at least down the road). Like three of these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/OPEN-BOX-POLK-AUDIO-265-RT-VANISHING-IN-WALL-SPEAKER-265RT-EACH-Warranty-265/273340078968?epid=112078364&hash=item3fa4569b78:g:4s0AAOSwiONYOmpZ. I know that @Jstas is really happy with his. The setup looks sweet. There are some pics on the forum somewheres...Add some in-ceiling surrounds, and then save up for the biggest, baddest sub from HSU or SVS you can afford.
AS for some of your other questions, buying used speakers is not a problem in general, just make sure you buy from a seller with lots of feedback.Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
Option 3: Trade the wife in for someone who will let do what you want!
A little story: My dad when he was still living with his mom & dad was out helping his dad replace the clutch in in his moms Studebaker (This was a bi-annual event) so my dad asked his dad why he didn't just teach his mom how to use a clutch.? His dads reply was that he tried and tried and decided it was just easier to replace the clutch. BTW She never did learn how to use a clutch.
Moral of this little story, No mater how hard you try some people just don't get it.!“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain -
Thanks for reading, yea it got winded quick, I tried to section it out, hoping it helped. Will look in to how those work.
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Welcome! Do a little research and reading on speaker ports. You can't really extend or redirect a port. A well-planned in-wall/in-ceiling setup can be very nice. Most speakers of this type are designed without ports, aka infinite baffle.
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In ceiling speakers could be used in a pinch for an alternative to dedicated in wall units.
As far as porting any "in wall" speaker, don't. They are designed to be used in an Infinite Baffle configuration (no boxes or ports). -
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Sounds like you and the wife should look at a few web sites. Who knows, she may see something she can live with.
For Polk speakers, may want to look at the Signature series, lot of people like their looks. Also a few companies make slim on wall speakers. Accessories4less has Focals that are of that design type. She may find them less objectionable than a box design.
Just throwing a couple ideas out there.
Normally the manufacturer will state wall mountable or something like key hole slot in the description. -
One of the speakers on the market is the definitive uiw rcs series... Fantastic in ceiling speakers- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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In ceiling speakers could be used in a pinch for an alternative to dedicated in wall units.
As far as porting any "in wall" speaker, don't. They are designed to be used in an Infinite Baffle configuration (no boxes or ports).
I always thought you might as well use car speakers depending on amp, 4Ω, gain some power into the speakers.
I'd only use component speakers in that instance, the coaxial ones won't have nearly the same mid-bass. -
One of the speakers on the market is the definitive uiw rcs series... Fantastic in ceiling speakers
Might be the best route, considering the wife has something against big box speakers. If she doesn't want speakers to distract or become a focal point, then ya need to hide them out of view.
In-ceiling speakers will work , and wire it up with decent cables like AQ in wall certified. Don't go cheap on the speaker also and make sure the tweeter is moveable so you can aim it in the direction of the seating position.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Thank you all for the feed back, Looking in to all the options.
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I just bought a sub from a guy yesterday who swears by 3D modeling to gain wifey acceptance. He used it to convince her to allow for a 65" TV along with Emotiva components and 6 foot Magnepans (and the sub). All in a fairly small room.
He claims showing her the setup pre-purchase was key. She reluctantly confirmed his claim. Might be worth a shot2 Channel "Polk" Room:
Marantz PM8004 Integrated
Marantz SA8004 SACD Player
Music Hall mmf 7.3 TT with Ortofon Bronze
WiiM Mini
Schiit Bifrost with Multibit Upgrade
Polk 7B with RDO198s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26wrvblgGP0