Dolby Vision right now.

mantismantis Posts: 15,066
Ok ,
Lets talk about Dolby Vision. I see so many flaws with this technology right now. The Apple TV 4k locks out in Dolby Vision if it's ON. You have to go to settings and manage your input source material with settings so you can auto switch between them. So far I see flaw here.
The Sony UDP-X700 Blu ray player locks out in Dolby Vision as well. If it's ON , it's ON. Your locked out of all other video resolutions which is really stupid. You have to go into the Menu system and turn OFF Dolby Vision to watch all other formats.

So as I sit here typing this I'm wondering if it's even worth chasing it right now? There is plenty of HDR content, many more better quality Blu ray players available right now like the Sony UDP-X1000es which does everything anyone would want in a player except Dolby Vision.

So all you 4k fans out there are you chasing Dolby Vision or waiting for it to become settled in? You can stream some compressed stuff on Apple TV 4k which is nice, they are updating the audio coming soon which we shall see how that goes.

Is physical media a useless venture despite it's still the best way to watch high quality movies with the best sound?

Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

Comments

  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,168
    I am not chasing after Dobly Vision. Regular 4K is good enough for me on a 65 inch display. In most cases upscaled 1080p is too.
    1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Toshiba HD-DVD Player; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Parasound JC2 Preamp; Sonic Frontiers Power 2 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio P1000; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Pioneer Elite SC97 receiver; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,066
    I agree with you in so many ways.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 1,836
    If I were you I would wait for Panasonic to release their players.

    The DP-UB820 is supposed to be released in July or August. Looks like it will be a pretty good player. The DP-UB9000 looks like it could be considered a viable replacement for an Oppo.

  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,343
    mantis wrote: »
    So as I sit here typing this I'm wondering if it's even worth chasing it right now?

    Nothing is worth chasing if it isn't going to make you happier when you catch it.

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  • Tony MTony M Posts: 6,571
    edited June 17
    mantis wrote: »
    So as I sit here typing this I'm wondering if it's even worth chasing it right now?

    Nothing is worth chasing if it isn't going to make you happier when you catch it.

    As the dog that bit that tire on the moving car found out. :s
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,628
    Glad I chased my wife... Nothing but a smile every day for 18 years now.
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  • warrenwarren Posts: 634
    Why do these manufacturers create the hoops we have to jump through to get what we paid for???
    Some final words,
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    you're going to have headaches."
    Warren
  • alucidideaalucididea Posts: 105
    So what’s interesting about Dolby Vision, is that it’s the only 12-bit dynamic HDR format. HDR10 isn’t dynamic and HDR10+ (Content coming out soonish & available on the UB820 & UB9000) is only 10-bit.

    I’ve talked to a lot of people speculating that HDR10+ is going to win the battle basically because it’s open source and not proprietary. I suppose we shall see.

    What’s most important to me, since HDR is in its infancy, is making sure I buy equipment that supports each of them. I just want to enjoy the best quality of content, no matter which standard the studios choose to use in production.
    mantis wrote: »
    Ok ,
    Lets talk about Dolby Vision. I see so many flaws with this technology right now. The Apple TV 4k locks out in Dolby Vision if it's ON. You have to go to settings and manage your input source material with settings so you can auto switch between them. So far I see flaw here.
    What do you mean the ATV 4K locks out when DV is on? My experience is that the device outputs whatever HDR signal is present automatically, as long as you make sure “Match Dynamic Range” is turned on.
    rpf65 wrote: »
    If I were you I would wait for Panasonic to release their players.

    The DP-UB820 is supposed to be released in July or August. Looks like it will be a pretty good player. The DP-UB9000 looks like it could be considered a viable replacement for an Oppo.
    Agreed! The UB9000 doesnt do DVD-Audio nor SACD, but otherwise looks promising as a video player.
  • GospelTruthGospelTruth Posts: 327
    I'm not chasing Dolby Vision, but I have been interested in seeing it compared to HDR10. As stated above, Dolby Vision supports 12 bit dynamic range. HDR10 is only 10 bit and I believe HDR10+ is also only 10 bit depth but allows for it to be dynamic depending on the scene. As of today, it is my understanding that Dolby Vision discs are only master at a 10 bit depth. Additionally, there are no 12 bit UHD panels out there on the market right now, so even if the discs were mastered with a 12 bit depth, you wouldn't be able to tell on any existing UHD TV. This just leaves Dolby's implementation open for the future when UHD TVs do support 12 bit depth at some point in the future.

    All UHD discs must support HDR10 as a minimum. Dolby Vision is supported on those discs marked with Dolby Vision, but they must also support HDR10. It's like back in the DVD days when all discs had to support Dolby surround, but DTS could be added as another alternative.

    I don't see Dolby Vision and HDR10 as competing formats. To me it's the same as DTS and Dolby Digital. Both exist today in the market. This isn't HD-DVD vs. Bluray. Dolby Vision has the benefit of being 12 bit dynamic range, but as I mentioned there is nothing on the market yet that supports this. Everything is currently mastered at 10 bit depth on discs and streaming.

    From my limited viewing of Dolby Vision material, I like what I see. It's nothing night and day difference from HDR10, but I can tell. I'm going to do some more comparisons over the next couple of weeks to see.

    In the end, I'm not going to pass on a movie (disc based) if it isn't coded for Dolby Vision. Most of the movies I have are HDR10 only. I have some newer movies that are Dolby Vision (Saving Private Ryan and Despicable Me). Most of the Dolby Vision movies I have are actually on VUDU as redeemed from the corresponding UHD discs that are only coded for HDR10. Go figure. If the movies coded with Dolby Vision for streaming, I don't know why they didn't code the discs with it as well - unless it's some licensing issue.

    I'm not chasing some Holy Grail here. However it is nice to have this new technology and be able to have it supported in my player and TV.

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  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 1,836
    The big difference, currently, between HDR10 and DV is the metadata encoded in DV.

    Each frame of DV has metadata to give the brightest picture possible to the screen. So if one seen is bright, say 1500 nits, and the next screen is darker, call it 1000 nits, the screen is able to adjust. Don’t have a display bright enough, the algorithm adjust for that also.

    HDR10, on the other hand uses best match for the entire movie. So if the display is only capable of 1000 nits, it’s algorithm uses that as a baseline and adjust everything accordingly.

    This enables a much better contrast ratio, which results in an overall better viewing experience. They’re currently working on a similar type of metadata for HDR10 as DV uses.

    Again that’s is currently the big upside for DV. I’m sure they’re working on further improvements, but a 12 bit depth is probably a little ways in the future.
  • Airplay355Airplay355 Posts: 4,272
    Sticking with HDR. It's plenty beautiful for me. I don't think I'd bother with dynamic formats until OLED is more mainstream and affordable.
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,168
    Airplay355 wrote: »
    Sticking with HDR. It's plenty beautiful for me. I don't think I'd bother with dynamic formats until OLED is more mainstream and affordable.

    I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 years the TV manufacturers come out with new models that display colors and dynamic range equivalent to an old plasma display and say it's new technology that's way better than HDR10 or HDR12 or Dobly Vision so you MUST go out and buy a new set. And a new media player. And a new compatible cable. And a new receiver. But it would be 8K resolution instead of 4K. I'd probably buy one anyway.
    1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Toshiba HD-DVD Player; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Parasound JC2 Preamp; Sonic Frontiers Power 2 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio P1000; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Pioneer Elite SC97 receiver; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 4,808
    Emlyn wrote: »
    Airplay355 wrote: »
    Sticking with HDR. It's plenty beautiful for me. I don't think I'd bother with dynamic formats until OLED is more mainstream and affordable.

    I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 years the TV manufacturers come out with new models that display colors and dynamic range equivalent to an old plasma display and say it's new technology that's way better than HDR10 or HDR12 or Dobly Vision so you MUST go out and buy a new set. And a new media player. And a new compatible cable. And a new receiver. But it would be 8K resolution instead of 4K. I'd probably buy one anyway.

    Well, at least you're catching on! This is the name of the game... Incremental "improvements" and making people think they need them. It won't stop. If it did, today's TVs would be so cheap in a few years, half the manufacturers would go out of business.
    7.1 - polk RTi10 x 3 (LCR) : FXi3 x 2 : RTi4 x 4 : Sunfire SDS-12 : Yamaha Aventage RX-A2040 : Adcom GFA-7500 : Squeezebox Touch : DIRECTV : Roku SE : Panasonic PT-AX200U PJ @ 120"
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  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,148
    Right on. Buy what you want and love it. Quit chasing. Televisions have come so far in the last 15 years that why stress about it?

    This is one reason why I don't deal with home theater gear. Too much turnover in gear and too little resale value to protect clients. I only like to sell receivers or televisions if its a 'lifetime' purchase - meaning it won't be replaced in three years for bigger and better.
    audiothesis.com/

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  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,607
    My TV is a 13" black & white Zenith from 1969. I am thinking about upgrading to a 19" color TV, but I'm in no big hurry because all I ever watch is "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" and "The Twilight Zone".
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,987
    The funny thing is that I know you aren't joking.
    Viking64 wrote: »
    My TV is a 13" black & white Zenith from 1969. I am thinking about upgrading to a 19" color TV, but I'm in no big hurry because all I ever watch is "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" and "The Twilight Zone".

  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,607
    Clipdat wrote: »
    The funny thing is that I know you aren't joking.

    How do you know that?
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 4,987
    edited June 21
    Because I'm looking through your window right now. That's a good episode of Twilight Zone!

    Edit: Crap, a better response would've been "Because I'm currently looking through your rear window."
    Viking64 wrote: »
    How do you know that?

  • mantismantis Posts: 15,066
    alucididea wrote: »
    So what’s interesting about Dolby Vision, is that it’s the only 12-bit dynamic HDR format. HDR10 isn’t dynamic and HDR10+ (Content coming out soonish & available on the UB820 & UB9000) is only 10-bit.

    I’ve talked to a lot of people speculating that HDR10+ is going to win the battle basically because it’s open source and not proprietary. I suppose we shall see.

    What’s most important to me, since HDR is in its infancy, is making sure I buy equipment that supports each of them. I just want to enjoy the best quality of content, no matter which standard the studios choose to use in production.
    mantis wrote: »
    Ok ,
    Lets talk about Dolby Vision. I see so many flaws with this technology right now. The Apple TV 4k locks out in Dolby Vision if it's ON. You have to go to settings and manage your input source material with settings so you can auto switch between them. So far I see flaw here.
    What do you mean the ATV 4K locks out when DV is on? My experience is that the device outputs whatever HDR signal is present automatically, as long as you make sure “Match Dynamic Range” is turned on.
    rpf65 wrote: »
    If I were you I would wait for Panasonic to release their players.

    The DP-UB820 is supposed to be released in July or August. Looks like it will be a pretty good player. The DP-UB9000 looks like it could be considered a viable replacement for an Oppo.
    Agreed! The UB9000 doesnt do DVD-Audio nor SACD, but otherwise looks promising as a video player.
    If you leave Dolby Vision ON in the FORMAT section, everything is unconverted to Dolby Vision even if you setup Match Dynamic range correctly, basically turning both setting ON.
    What you have to do to get the Apple TV to output correctly is set FORMAT to 4k SDR. I don't understand why you would have to do this and why the Apple TV wouldn't just switch due to content unless you do this.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • alucidideaalucididea Posts: 105
    mantis wrote: »
    If you leave Dolby Vision ON in the FORMAT section, everything is unconverted to Dolby Vision even if you setup Match Dynamic range correctly, basically turning both setting ON.
    What you have to do to get the Apple TV to output correctly is set FORMAT to 4k SDR. I don't understand why you would have to do this and why the Apple TV wouldn't just switch due to content unless you do this.
    Interesting. I’ll defintey look into how that works.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,066
    alucididea wrote: »
    mantis wrote: »
    If you leave Dolby Vision ON in the FORMAT section, everything is unconverted to Dolby Vision even if you setup Match Dynamic range correctly, basically turning both setting ON.
    What you have to do to get the Apple TV to output correctly is set FORMAT to 4k SDR. I don't understand why you would have to do this and why the Apple TV wouldn't just switch due to content unless you do this.
    Interesting. I’ll defintey look into how that works.
    I think it's an oversight on everyones part with Dolby Vision being so New. The X700 Blu ray player does basically the same thing

    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • GospelTruthGospelTruth Posts: 327
    mantis wrote: »
    alucididea wrote: »
    mantis wrote: »
    If you leave Dolby Vision ON in the FORMAT section, everything is unconverted to Dolby Vision even if you setup Match Dynamic range correctly, basically turning both setting ON.
    What you have to do to get the Apple TV to output correctly is set FORMAT to 4k SDR. I don't understand why you would have to do this and why the Apple TV wouldn't just switch due to content unless you do this.
    Interesting. I’ll defintey look into how that works.
    I think it's an oversight on everyones part with Dolby Vision being so New. The X700 Blu ray player does basically the same thing

    From my understanding, the OPPO and Cambridge players automatically set the Dolby Vision flag based on the content. There is no need for the user to adjust something in the settings to turn this on or off manually.

    However, that may be easier to do if the medium is disc vs. streaming. As the OPPO and Cambridge players do not do any streaming, this may be an advantage in this regard. I don't know if this is the case or not - pure speculation. All I know is that the OPPO and Cambridge players do adjust to Dolby Vision automatically where as the Sony X700 and from your information, the Apple TV, do not.
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  • firsttimerfirsttimer Posts: 87
    Well I might get laughed at here but my Lg-UP970 when either playing a Dolby vision uhd disc or streaming Dolby vision content always sends the proper format. No having to go into unit and set it on then off. I have had this player for a year and since the last update(Dolby vision) it plays both formats quite well. I got it on sale and for what I paid I am more than happy with it. Maybe one day I will splurge for a high end player but at this time this player has worked flawlessly for me. It is very basic but does the trick. Just my two cents.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,621
    edited July 2
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    Emlyn wrote: »
    Airplay355 wrote: »
    Sticking with HDR. It's plenty beautiful for me. I don't think I'd bother with dynamic formats until OLED is more mainstream and affordable.

    I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 years the TV manufacturers come out with new models that display colors and dynamic range equivalent to an old plasma display and say it's new technology that's way better than HDR10 or HDR12 or Dobly Vision so you MUST go out and buy a new set. And a new media player. And a new compatible cable. And a new receiver. But it would be 8K resolution instead of 4K. I'd probably buy one anyway.

    Well, at least you're catching on! This is the name of the game... Incremental "improvements" and making people think they need them. It won't stop. If it did, today's TVs would be so cheap in a few years, half the manufacturers would go out of business.

    4t855bs2bw3u.png


    Mid 1950s economy model RCA color TV (21 inch round CRT, VHF only). Table model (no legs).
    By the CPI inflation calculator the price would be $4664 in 2018 dollas.

  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,194
    Emlyn wrote: »
    I am not chasing after Dobly Vision. Regular 4K is good enough for me on a 65 inch display. In most cases upscaled 1080p is too.

    I'll agree with that. Last thing I want to do when watching TV/MOVIES, is to have to change settings. Physical media on BR is still the best movie experience imho.
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  • mantismantis Posts: 15,066
    tonyb wrote: »
    Emlyn wrote: »
    I am not chasing after Dobly Vision. Regular 4K is good enough for me on a 65 inch display. In most cases upscaled 1080p is too.

    I'll agree with that. Last thing I want to do when watching TV/MOVIES, is to have to change settings. Physical media on BR is still the best movie experience imho.
    I'm all out on it. The fact you have to turn the setting on and off depending on what your watching plus is turns off 3D if you use it which I used it once and thats it.
    I think Sony needs to release a firmware update to correct this issue. I'm just waiting for a better player at this point. I don't really care about the X700.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • firsttimerfirsttimer Posts: 87
    Enjoying both HDR and Dolby vision on my LG lol. No dwitching on or off etc. As said for a really basic player been very happy with it. Can stream all you tube videos, Netflix Dolby vision programs etc.
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