1st gen SDA CRS question

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Comments

  • Dr_WuDr_Wu Posts: 72
    Trying to stay objective while breaking in the new guys, but I suspect you may be right, FestYboy.

    Thinking ahead, I know Polk recommends the RD0194-1 tweeter to replace the SL-1000. But, has anyone tried a different tweeter that they like better? Any opinions on the Midwest substitute?
    https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/shop/home-audio/tweeters/dome/mw-audio-mt-4115-1-inch-dome-tweeter/
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,475
    Dr_Wu wrote: »
    Trying to stay objective while breaking in the new guys, but I suspect you may be right, FestYboy.

    Thinking ahead, I know Polk recommends the RD0194-1 tweeter to replace the SL-1000. But, has anyone tried a different tweeter that they like better? Any opinions on the Midwest substitute?
    https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/shop/home-audio/tweeters/dome/mw-audio-mt-4115-1-inch-dome-tweeter/

    Only you can decide, they seem to be love/hate no middle ground. The problem with the RD-0194 is you will need to enlarge the hole as the SL1000 has a smaller face plate.
    The RD-0194 is all around a better tweeter than both mentioned.
  • Dr_WuDr_Wu Posts: 72
    Appreciate your input, pitdogg2.
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,171
    Dr_Wu wrote: »
    Trying to stay objective while breaking in the new guys, but I suspect you may be right, FestYboy.

    Thinking ahead, I know Polk recommends the RD0194-1 tweeter to replace the SL-1000. But, has anyone tried a different tweeter that they like better? Any opinions on the Midwest substitute?
    https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/shop/home-audio/tweeters/dome/mw-audio-mt-4115-1-inch-dome-tweeter/

    You CANNOT use the Midwest Peerless Clone in place of the SL1000. The Crossover is NOT designed for the Peerless, No 1st or 2nd generation SDA was.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • Dr_WuDr_Wu Posts: 72
    Thanks Dave! The MW ad is really misleading. Are the RD0194s back in stock?
  • xschopxschop Posts: 875
    I dropped in a set of Daytons DC-28f's in my CRS+ when one of the RD0194s would not stop resonating. Very happy with them. The truncated dc-28ft's will fit the factory cabinet tweeter holes and seal completly.... fyi
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,171
    Dr_Wu wrote: »
    Thanks Dave! The MW ad is really misleading. Are the RD0194s back in stock?
    Call Polk CS tomorrow. Supposed to be getting a new batch in

    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • Dr_WuDr_Wu Posts: 72
    FestYboy wrote: »
    It's gonna be hard to beat the CRS...

    You were right, my friend! Elac UB5s, MartinLogan Motion LX16s and Monitor Bronze 2s have all failed to measure up. The MLs were the last to go down. I liked their clarity. If I could get that out of my CRSs I'd be ecstatic. I'm wondering if any of the upgrades/mods would accomplish that?

    BTW, I've now gotten conflicting answers from Polk CS regarding tweeter upgrade on the first gen CRS. First, I was told the RD0194 is recommended; and today I was told there is no Polk replacement for the SL1000 tweeters in my CRSs (only the MW Speaker Peerless clone). What's the straight dope on this?

    Thanks!
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,985
    If mods are in the future for the CRS, consider making the XOs the same as the sl2k version, then run the 194s. Or, since you're in there, go full Monty and do the TL mod. Anything and everything is better than the SL1k.
  • Dr_WuDr_Wu Posts: 72
    I understand that the TL mod cannot be done on the first gen CRS. I've read/been told that the TL mod cannot be done on the first gen CRS. Right/wrong?
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,631
    The TL mod cannot be done to the CRS.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,171
    The RD0194 is the correct replacement for the SL1000 and SL2000. Whoever told you the Peerless clones from Midwest Speaker are the replacements, is wrong.
    The Peerless clone, is for the HF1000 (Peerless). Peerless were never used in SDAs.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,171
    mjakyobpndr3.jpg
    e025ipvi1wqw.jpg
    All credit to Wraith Smith II, PHD
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,171
    FestYboy wrote: »
    If mods are in the future for the CRS, consider making the XOs the same as the sl2k version, then run the 194s. Or, since you're in there, go full Monty and do the TL mod. Anything and everything is better than the SL1k.

    The difference between the CRS/SL1000 and CRS/SL2000, was the elimination of the fuses, Polyswitches were added, and downstream resistor values adjusted accordingly.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • Dr_WuDr_Wu Posts: 72
    edited June 13
    Thanks to all! Sent you an email, David. You da'' man!
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,985
    FestYboy wrote: »
    If mods are in the future for the CRS, consider making the XOs the same as the sl2k version, then run the 194s. Or, since you're in there, go full Monty and do the TL mod. Anything and everything is better than the SL1k.

    The difference between the CRS/SL1000 and CRS/SL2000, was the elimination of the fuses, Polyswitches were added, and downstream resistor values adjusted accordingly.

    Ok, so I wasn't too far off track... I'm learning (slowly).
    F1nut wrote: »
    The TL mod cannot be done to the CRS.

    Are you referring specifically to the CRS and not the CRS+? And then what makes up the SDA 4.1 (looks much like a single tweet CRS to my eyes).
    And along those lines, if most people remove the SDA tweet from the CRS, what's stopping one from modding the XO to TL spec? I know I've seen other SDAs upgraded to TL spec.

    Or is it a blade/blade pin/blade thing? (I'm not seeing that being the case).
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,631
    The original CRS cannot be TL'd regardless.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,475
    FestYboy wrote: »
    . Or is it a blade/blade pin/blade thing? (I'm not seeing that being the case).

    There is a big difference between those two. As you know pin/blade can be used with non-common ground amps with the right equipment. Blade/blade cannot be at all period. In a B/b crossover both blades carry signal nothing goes direct to ground on the binding post.

  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,985
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    FestYboy wrote: »
    . Or is it a blade/blade pin/blade thing? (I'm not seeing that being the case).

    There is a big difference between those two. As you know pin/blade can be used with non-common ground amps with the right equipment. Blade/blade cannot be at all period. In a B/b crossover both blades carry signal nothing goes direct to ground on the binding post.

    Yes, that part I understand. What I'm not understanding is what (exactly) makes the CRS unable to be TL'ed. I've seen TL 10s and I've seen SDA'ed 10s, so... The CRS are closest to 2A/B or 10s in configuration and to see can be TL'ed, so why not the CRS? What am I missing?

    (Not arguing, just truly curious).
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,475
    edited June 13
    Now I'm peaked. I am pretty sure that Dave TL'd to pair of SDA2a so yea .....
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,985
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    .

    Oh common, spit it out! I can take it (I hope).
  • xschopxschop Posts: 875
    You can drop in the TL'd CRS+ crossovers and swap out the 6503 dimensional drivers with 6502s or 6511s. IMO the tweeter sounds better as close to the stereo driver anyways.
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,985
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Now I'm peaked. I am pretty sure that Dave TL'd to pair of SDA2a so yea .....

    I recall something to that effect as well.

    So the question remains: what makes the CRS different to the point that "it can't be done"?
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,631
    edited June 14
    The crossover circuit.......they different, VERY different.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,475
    FestYboy wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    .

    Oh common, spit it out! I can take it (I hope).

    Originally i was thinking that the two board cross over had something to do with it but remembered the sda2a that Dave TL'd so i backed out my comment.
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,171
    The reason I was able to "TL" my 2As, is the High-Pass circuit is identical to the CRS+/2B, with the exception of a padding resistor in series with the shunt inductor. I tested it with and without the resistor, and decided to leave it in place. If you read the 2A rebuild listed in my signature, it explains everything I did. It is not sanctioned by Polk as an official modification however.

    The1984 CRS is 2nd generation, and the high-pass circuit is quite different than any other later SDA that was modified. I would not recommend trying it.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • Dr_WuDr_Wu Posts: 72
    So, after installing the RD0194 tweeters (all 4), I've spent more time listening with the dimensional fuses removed -- and, I like it. But, I sometimes feel some high-end musical elements aren't coming through as prominently as I remember them. Makes me wonder whether re-connecting the tweeters in some way to the stereo crossover module might improve the sound. I suppose the original stereo tweeter circuit would have to be duplicated and the tweeter connected thereto.

    Does this sound feasible/desireable? Has anyone done it? How did it work out?

    Thanks
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,631
    You don't want to do that, it won't sound good.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • Dr_WuDr_Wu Posts: 72
    Jesse, with all due respect, why?/how do you know?
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,631
    Well for starters it doesn’t sound good with them playing together in stock form and since the SDA tweeter is around half the volume of the stereo tweeter it's going to be even worse with them playing at the same level. Comb filtering is the issue.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


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