Topping D10 USB DAC

13

Comments

  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    @DSkip are you going to share your thoughts now that I've posted some initial listening impressions?
    DSkip wrote: »
    ...and the analog stage. I hope you enjoy it bud. I'll keep my thoughts to myself, at least until you've given it a fair shake. :)

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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,012
    edited March 2018
    Two things:
    1 - I have to wonder whether a switch to a USB DAC is contributing to musical improvement you're experiencing. Several weeks ago I setup my first USB DAC in the home office and had what I think was my most profound DAC experience. Mine are all sub $500 units, so I can't compare to anything too serious, but the USB/nearfield has offered the most profound improvement (My regular 2ch system/space needs a lot of work) Fantastic stereo channel play detail, improved imaging, even offering details in depth imaging, which I've only had a very fleeting experience with before.

    2 - Reading your impressions re: the soundstage, listening to the music not the gear per Russ and such, since this is a nearfield/computer setup, it reminded me of something I found myself trying while I was experimenting with this rig. I'd do the same thing recommended - eyes closed, and in addiction (<< ha, slip? addition), I tried sitting forward with my head inside the speaker triangle. Think speaker toe converging about 2-3ft behind your head. Not a regular listening position, but gives a sense of what's possible - expansive stage, enveloping, immersive experience, beautiful detailing. Like headphones only better. It's like you're in the music. Even with Spotify. .flac even sweeter. This is something I'd love to be able to replicate in full size 2ch system.

    For reference this system is:
    • HRT Music Streamer HD
    • AudioQuest Forest USB
    • B&K AVR 507
    • Polk RT25i
    • Deftec SCIII
    • Douglas Connection Furez SCs
    • Re: ICs, this sweetness came even with the temporary cheapie RCAs that came with a Squeezebox Touch. Currently using a pair of Dynamique ICs courtesy of @voltz
    Whatever it is, this combination makes it undeniably more appealing to spend time in that space. Captivating is another word I'd use to describe the experience. You know what I'm talking about - those late night, "just one more..." sessions.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Clipdat wrote: »
    No need to crawl, just tell me the model #!
    verb wrote: »
    No comments from Jimmy about being under the desk! :smile:

    So I did crawl under the desk. Here it is. Currently setup as 3.1 channel.
    v0zytbfoh4o1.png
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    edited March 2018
    It uses RCA cables for the speaker outputs! Strange.

    Time to upgrade: http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/181265/fs-totem-kin-mini-monitors-and-kin-mini-sub-w-boxes
    verb wrote: »

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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Yep. It connects to the computer via a DB9 connector, which is also hard wired to the front right channel. That speaker has volume control on it.
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    Audio Science Review posted their review: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-topping-d10-dac.2470/
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,960
    Would have been nice in that review if they elaborated on how it sounded, rather than just concentrating on specs.
    HT SYSTEM-
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    Sony 4k BRP
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    Cables-
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    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

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  • DollarDave
    DollarDave Posts: 2,575
    What's with the quoting of a prior post at the bottom of a response to it? Makes it extremely hard to follow a read through what otherwise could be a decent thread.

    It's annoying. Sometimes just because you can, doesn't mean you should...
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    DollarDave wrote: »
    What's with the quoting of a prior post at the bottom of a response to it? Makes it extremely hard to follow a read through what otherwise could be a decent thread.

    It's annoying. Sometimes just because you can, doesn't mean you should...

    He doesn't seem interested in following the norm.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    Hey Tony, I agree. I kept waiting to read about the listening impressions.

    The only thing that was mentioned by the author was on page 3: "I used to listen to music for a couple of hours while building my dummy load and enjoyed every minute. So just get it and don't worry."
    tonyb wrote: »
    Would have been nice in that review if they elaborated on how it sounded, rather than just concentrating on specs.

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  • DollarDave
    DollarDave Posts: 2,575
    Perhaps it’s passive-aggressive posting and it’s on purpose?
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    DollarDave wrote: »
    What's with the quoting of a prior post at the bottom of a response to it? Makes it extremely hard to follow a read through what otherwise could be a decent thread.

    It's annoying. Sometimes just because you can, doesn't mean you should...

    He doesn't seem interested in following the norm.

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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    Perhaps you can add me to your ignore list if it bothers you that much. I've been posting like this since I joined Club Polk in 2012.
    DollarDave wrote: »
    Perhaps it’s passive-aggressive posting and it’s on purpose?

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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    tonyb wrote: »
    Would have been nice in that review if they elaborated on how it sounded, rather than just concentrating on specs.

    Exactly! Measurements should be secondary as they really never tell how something sounds. If you purchase equipment based on printed specs, you will never reach musical nirvana.

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    His review site is a bit of a strange one. It seems like he focuses on numbers/measurements exclusively and doesn't ever write about the sound signature that something has.

    Maybe he's just worried that any descriptions of the sound he provides will just be purely subjective and not worthwhile. Not really sure what his thought process is.

    I admit I did link the review ahead of reading it, as I just recognized that site/blog since @mhardy6647 had posted it in the past.
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Exactly! Measurements should be secondary as they really never tell how something sounds. If you purchase equipment based on printed specs, you will never reach musical nirvana.

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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,960
    heiney9 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    Would have been nice in that review if they elaborated on how it sounded, rather than just concentrating on specs.

    Exactly! Measurements should be secondary as they really never tell how something sounds. If you purchase equipment based on printed specs, you will never reach musical nirvana.

    Bingo...and even if they did expand on the sound, you'd then have to consider the system it was placed in. Same dac in different systems will obviously sound....different.

    Reviews like the one posted make no reference to detail retrieval, tone, soundstage, prat, decay, etc. Things most budding audiophiles should be interested in.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • DollarDave
    DollarDave Posts: 2,575
    Good idea. I’ll put you on ignore. You style of posting quotes is inconsiderate of others and you usually have little to offer anyway. You will hold the distinction of being the only person on my ignore list.
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Perhaps you can add me to your ignore list if it bothers you that much. I've been posting like this since I joined Club Polk in 2012.
    DollarDave wrote: »
    Perhaps it’s passive-aggressive posting and it’s on purpose?

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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    Just swapped my Oyaide 1.0m USB cable for an Audioquest Forest 1.5m USB cable and doing some listening currently.

    Not noticing a huge difference straight away. It does sound like some elements of the music are now more featured/highlighted compared to before. I'm not certain if that is a benefit/improvement, but it's a noted difference at least.
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Cool. Cinnamon coming my way!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    Curious to see if you notice a change. This Forest cable is around the same price as the Oyaide, so maybe that's why I'm not noticing a huge difference. Maybe I'd need to go further up the chain to start to see major differences.
    verb wrote: »
    Cool. Cinnamon coming my way!

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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    Comparing specs:

    Oyaide:

    Conductor: Silver plated OFC (Oxygen Free Copper)
    Structure: Flat (Inverted concentric structure)
    Shield: Double shielding（tin plated wire + alminum tape）
    Insulator: Polyolefin
    Sheath: PVC (PolyVinyl Chloride)
    Connectors: USB Type A-USB Type B
    Terminals: 24K gold plated bronze alloy
    Body: PBT + Glass Fiber 30%

    AQ Forest:

    solid Long Grain Copper conductors eliminate inter-strand distortion
    polyethylene insulation
    triple shielding (foil/mylar/braided copper) to reject interference
    Wave Soldered connectors
    gold-plated connectors resist corrosion
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    AQ Carbon USB cable will be on the way soon to try with the D10.

    Meanwhile in the last few weeks I've been putting more time on the D10 and it seems to be breaking in nicely.

    I'm impressed at the amount of detail and texture I'm able to hear it drawing out of some well mastered tracks.

    For $89.99 this is a great DAC and definitely worth a shot. Give it a try, you just might be surprised.

    It's also on Massdrop again: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/topping-d10
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  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    edited May 2018
    DO you think this DAC would do nicely with my 2 channel setup? You are using yours for near field, have you tried it in a full size? If you did, how did it sound?
    I need a (relatively) budget DAC and if this one fits the bill than this will be what I get.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    I'm not sure how you would integrate it into your 2 channel rig, as it only has a USB input.

    To answer your question, I have not tried it on any of my other rigs which are a little larger than nearfield.
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    DO you think this DAC would do nicely with my 2 channel setup? You are using yours for near field, have you tried it in a full size? If you did, how did it sound?
    I need a (relatively) budget DAC and if this one fits the bill than this will be what I get.

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  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    edited May 2018
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I'm not sure how you would integrate it into your 2 channel rig, as it only has a USB input.

    To answer your question, I have not tried it on any of my other rigs which are a little larger than nearfield.
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    DO you think this DAC would do nicely with my 2 channel setup? You are using yours for near field, have you tried it in a full size? If you did, how did it sound?
    I need a (relatively) budget DAC and if this one fits the bill than this will be what I get.


    I would use it with my tablet. My CD player already has a decent DAC in it, and so does my AVR, I just need to find out which is better. I didn’t know there were other types of DACs, what should I look for?

    Edit: nevermind I can do some research and if I can’t find anything I will start a new thread to avoid hijacking this one :blush:
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,786
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Logging some more hours on it right now, listening to past DJ mixes that I've done.

    I'm pleased to report that the top of the unit gets mildly warm during use, which I consider to be a benefit. Everyone knows electronics sound better when they're warm and up to temp! :)

    One could cook breakfast on top of a pair of 2A3s.

    16187794927_269abfcf2c_b.jpgDSC_0132 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,960
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Clipdat wrote: »
    One could cook breakfast on top of a pair of 2A3s.

    Indeed, but that bacon grease and tubes may interact like a Monoprice flame thrower. :)
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,513
    Here we go again...
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,786
    edited May 2018
    K_M wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    Would have been nice in that review if they elaborated on how it sounded, rather than just concentrating on specs.

    Exactly! Measurements should be secondary as they really never tell how something sounds. If you purchase equipment based on printed specs, you will never reach musical nirvana.




    It's a widely held opinion -- I would opine.

    The above-quoted poster might enjoy threads like these from Elsewhere, though.

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/why-is-the-question-do-all-amps-sound-the-same-pretty-much-completely-unanswered.820757/
    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/bridging-the-objective-and-subjective-realms.820832/


    Joe Roberts -- publisher of Sound Practices magazine in the 1990s and trained as
    an anthropologist -- has a perceptive perspective, I think, on the subjectivity (or, at least, the operationally defined nature) of even the most objective approach.

    As a scientist, I am keenly aware of (and interested in) the intrinsic biases we bring to our craft. Joe's musings are very interesting (and often humbling) to me.
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited May 2018
    K_M wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    Would have been nice in that review if they elaborated on how it sounded, rather than just concentrating on specs.

    Exactly! Measurements should be secondary as they really never tell how something sounds. If you purchase equipment based on printed specs, you will never reach musical nirvana.

    Is that your opinion, or something set in stone that all would agree with?

    Anyone who takes audio seriously would agree. Anyone that has good listening skills would agree. Anyone that's had long experience in this hobby would agree. I can go on............but I'm sure people are as tired as I am of this. My forehead is black and blue, I think it deserves a break.

    But you keep banging your head into the wall if you like.

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,960
    K_M wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    Would have been nice in that review if they elaborated on how it sounded, rather than just concentrating on specs.

    Exactly! Measurements should be secondary as they really never tell how something sounds. If you purchase equipment based on printed specs, you will never reach musical nirvana.

    Is that your opinion, or something set in stone that all would agree with?

    Most would agree, al least those who have had the pleasure of enjoying different pieces of gear over the years.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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