RTA 11t's needing Something

audioluvr
audioluvr Posts: 5,582
edited January 2018 in Vintage Speakers
I have a pair of RTA 11t's that I picked up I'm trying to figure out what to do with. They just don't sound very good and I'm wondering if I should upgrade or just get rid of them. Could be my 1C' have me spoiled but the highs are kinda harsh and the bass is very diminished. The cabinet seal is very good so it can't be that. Is there something in the crossovers that is causing this or is this a common problem?
Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
    I've never felt there wasn't enough bass from either of my 2 pair of 11Ts, as for the "harsh" highs, you may want to look into TL modding them with the RDO-198s.

    What are you driving them with? Have they ever been opened? Possible polarity issue if so.
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  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,375
    +1

    Also, they should respond well to upgrading the XO caps to some ClarityCaps or Sonicaps.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
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  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    Something is wrong. The 11t/tl are the sweet spot in the MTM RTA line. Great vintage Polks
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    These are bone stock. Was running them with an NAD T753. While I wait for Dave ^^^ to rebuild my crossovers on the 1C's I'll open them up, do some updates, check polarity and maybe throw in some 194's to see if that helps. As for upgrading the crossovers, that will have to wait for now
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • 11tsteve
    11tsteve Posts: 1,166
    Mine went from night to day with a crossover upgrade to Sonicaps and Mills resistors.
    Plus, I am sure the poly switches were shot, which can give a muddy, muted top end.
    I used a 0.5 ohm Mills to replace those.
    A possible experiment might be to remove the crossovers, and replace the poly switch with a jumper just to see if perhaps they are a problem. Depends on what kind of money you want to sink into the speakers.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Well I pulled them back out of storage to start updating them. Dynomatted all baskets and swapped out a couple of RDO-194's from my 1C's to see how much that would help. Then I noticed one of the tweeters was not working. Pulled it and stuck a multi- meter on it and sure enough, no signal. Looks like a crossover upgrade is in order...
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
    And down the rabbit hole you go.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Tick, tock... Deeper I go.
    WTH. It's just money... I can always make more!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    11tsteve wrote: »
    Mine went from night to day with a crossover upgrade to Sonicaps and Mills resistors.
    Plus, I am sure the poly switches were shot, which can give a muddy, muted top end.
    I used a 0.5 ohm Mills to replace those.
    A possible experiment might be to remove the crossovers, and replace the poly switch with a jumper just to see if perhaps they are a problem. Depends on what kind of money you want to sink into the speakers.

    Thanks Steve. I'll probably do the whole shebang like you did.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TNTsTunes
    TNTsTunes Posts: 751
    audioluvr wrote: »
    11tsteve wrote: »
    Mine went from night to day with a crossover upgrade to Sonicaps and Mills resistors.
    Plus, I am sure the poly switches were shot, which can give a muddy, muted top end.
    I used a 0.5 ohm Mills to replace those.
    A possible experiment might be to remove the crossovers, and replace the poly switch with a jumper just to see if perhaps they are a problem. Depends on what kind of money you want to sink into the speakers.

    Thanks Steve. I'll probably do the whole shebang like you did.

    If you do the whole shebang step up to the TL tweeters and use RDO198's. Cost wise it's probably not much of a difference.
    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Hmmm. What's different crossover wise?
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • TNTsTunes
    TNTsTunes Posts: 751
    edited February 2018
    11t
    https://us.v-cdn.net/5021930/uploads/attachments/4/6/7/2/8/18707.pdf

    11tl
    https://us.v-cdn.net/5021930/uploads/attachments/4/6/7/2/8/18708.pdf


    Not too much, just a few changes in the tweeter circuit.

    Cap wise the 11t uses two 12uf caps, 11tl uses a 12uf and 16uf cap.

    Resistor wise the 11t use a .5 ohm resistor to replace the poly switch, a 2.7 ohm and 2.0 ohm resistors. The 11tl doesn't use a poly switch and only uses a 1.5 ohm resistor.

    To make an 11t into a11tl you would need a .3mH inductor to replace the .4mH inductor the 11t uses.
    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Thanks!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Well unless I can source 2.7 ohm Mills resistors it looks like a TL mod is in order. Anyone know which is the best / correct inductor to use? Parts Express carries 14, 18 and 20 ga. air core.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TNTsTunes
    TNTsTunes Posts: 751
    edited February 2018
    Here you go.

    2.7 ohm Vishay Mills resistor.

    soniccraft.com/product_info.php/27-ohm-vishay-mills-mra-12-p-4636


    For the TL mod inductor choice matters.

    I believe this is the correct inductor Jantzen 000-1452 .30mH .55ohm AWG 22

    Maybe @westmassguy can verify this.

    You'll need to order it from this site below. No one in the states will special order it for you.

    https://hificollective.co.uk/catalog/000-1452-0-30mh-jantzen-air-core-wire-coil.html

    Since it is special order it takes 18 days for them to get it.

    Airmail tracked and signed takes about 7 days. FedEx Int. takes 2-3 but costs almost twice as much.

    I've place multiple orders with them and they went great.
    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    edited February 2018
    I'm hoping a 33uF cap will work since I can't find a 34uF one. Thoughts?

    Never mind. Just talked to @westmassguy and the 33uF are within tolerance
    Post edited by audioluvr on
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I'm hoping a 33uF cap will work since I can't find a 34uF one. Thoughts?

    Sonic Craft carries the 34uF, same place for Mills resistors.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Thanks F1. My uncanny ability to not see what's right in front of me must be active again. I will keep looking.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Rrusse11
    Rrusse11 Posts: 116
    audioluvr,
    Don't know where you are, but here's an orphan RTA 11tl, be good for parts if nothing else perhaps.
    https://baltimore.craigslist.org/ele/d/polk-audio-rta-11tl-tower/6486339993.html
    SDA SRS 2.3s
    Pair of Carver TFM 35s
    Carver C-1 Preamp
    CAL Icon MkII CD
    RTA 12s, need major work
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    WOW. Never see deals like that in the West coast.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Rrusse11
    Rrusse11 Posts: 116
    At the other end of the scale, closer?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-RTA-11TL-Audiophile-Speakers/352257159279?hash=item520429b06f:g:l20AAOSwPK1ZTLD9
    SDA SRS 2.3s
    Pair of Carver TFM 35s
    Carver C-1 Preamp
    CAL Icon MkII CD
    RTA 12s, need major work
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
    Rrusse11 wrote: »
    audioluvr,
    Don't know where you are, but here's an orphan RTA 11tl, be good for parts if nothing else perhaps.
    https://baltimore.craigslist.org/ele/d/polk-audio-rta-11tl-tower/6486339993.html

    You can pass on this... The quality of the pieces from that seller is poor to atrocious. Thinks everything is worth gold untill it sits for months on CL, then there's the issue of contacting him...
    If you really want it for parts, sit on it for a while longer, then go in low.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Rrusse11 wrote: »
    At the other end of the scale, closer?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-RTA-11TL-Audiophile-Speakers/352257159279?hash=item520429b06f:g:l20AAOSwPK1ZTLD9

    Closer yes. Still 650 miles South of me. I went ahead and ordered all the components to upgrade the crossovers as is and have RDO-194's coming. Should suit my needs quite well once done. I'll keep you all updated.

    Thanks all!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    Well I rebuilt the crossovers using the Dayton Audio caps 5% on the low pass and 1% on the high pass. I started by removing the hot glue, cutting off the old caps, resistors and poly switch, labeling the location as I went.

    6auuishdwr3h.jpeg

    Then I desoldered and removed the old leads. Next I drilled new holes farther apart for the 0.5 ohm resistor that replaces the poly switch and an extra one so the 12 uF cap and 2.0 ohm resistor don't have to share a hole. This made reinstallation way easier and because the new caps were quite a bit larger than the originals, gave me more room. Next I moved the inductor over a little installed all but the one one cap that previously shared a hole with the resistor then stacked the last cap on top.

    ykt4gnpai209.jpeg

    I pushed all components down tight then bent over all leads and trimmed any excess. This keeps everything tight and in place plus if for some reason fitment isn't right I can still adjust. Finally I soldered and hot glued. Not sure if this is how the professionals do it but it worked well for me.

    eguj9rgx8ior.jpeg

    6jyf6sanz63e.jpeg

    I did listen to one new and one old to see if I could hear any difference. I noticed that the vocals were far more clear and highs seemed a lot smoother. Still waiting for the new RDO'S but I really like what I am hearing so far.

    Thanks again everyone for all the help!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    The 12uf and 34uf are reversed
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
    Chemtronics makes a Flux-Off aerosol (carried at Digikey) that will get rid of the brown flux left after soldering.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    edited February 2018
    One other thing the resistor should never be covered in hot melt glue.....

    KennethSwauger wrote: »
    Chemtronics makes a Flux-Off aerosol (carried at Digikey) that will get rid of the brown flux left after soldering.

    91% alcohol on a Q-tip works also.

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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,582
    westmassguy wrote: »
    The 12uf and 34uf are reversed

    You funny! They are not polar.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
    audioluvr wrote: »
    westmassguy wrote: »
    The 12uf and 34uf are reversed

    You funny! They are not polar.

    I believe he's saying that they are in the wrong positions.
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  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    edited February 2018
    FestYboy wrote: »
    audioluvr wrote: »
    westmassguy wrote: »
    The 12uf and 34uf are reversed

    You funny! They are not polar.

    I believe he's saying that they are in the wrong positions.

    Bad wording on my part. The 34 should be closest to the edge of the circuit board, the 12 closest to the shunt inductor.


    dgxtknm4pwj7.png
    hsrlmd5dujge.png
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter