Subaru did what now?!?

halo

Hey folks,

My wife & I just bought an '09 Outback and we're getting ready for the big move to St. Louis. Since it's going to be a 6-hour drive from Chicago, I wanted to update the "premium" 440-watt Harman Kardon audio system to make the road trip a bit more enjoyable.

I looked into the upgrade at Crutchfield and I also looked into the Subaru Outback forums and the Legacy GT forums too.

I found one very concerning post in my research that claims the ABS & VDC are integrated within the premium HK amp which is under the passenger seat. None of the other posters seemed to pay any attention to this but I did because Subaru tied the climate control into the Outback models with automatic climate control but not manual climate control. So, if you have a 3rd gen Outback with automatic climate controls it's a major PITA to replace the factory head unit (pretty much not worth it).

I downloaded the service manual for the '09 Outback today and scrolled through it until I got to the Audio section. It looks to me like the HK amp does have something to with the ABS and the VDC but is this on the Sedan and Wagon or on the Sedan only?

The Sedan only uses one of the subwoofer outputs from the HK amp because the sub in the Sedan is a Single Voice Coil (SVC) while the sub in the Wagon is a Dual Voice Coil DVC). Can anyone here help me to decode this / translate the diagrams?

What I'm referring to is in the 2nd/middle image.

Thanks in advance

Here are pictures of the wiring diagrams in the service manual:

kharp1

Azzholes

halo

nbrowser wrote: »

Look too bestkits.com and PAC Audio...they should have interfaces and whatnot to get around anything. Simple bypassing...is not advisable.

I wasn’t planning on it. So, Crutchfield is advising everyone with an Outback wagon to simply yank the OEM amp/crossover in the premium setup and simply install a different aftermarket amp.

Lawsuit?

F1nut

As a wise audio shop owner said to me back in 1986 in reference to upgrading car auto systems, "Why bother!?!"

nooshinjohn

It will be the same on the Outback, as well as the Legacy. They utilize the same components throughout. I worked the line building them, installing dashboard assemblies and such.

Better off to go high level off the radio to a new amp and leave the head unit alone.

jeremymarcinko

Maybe just a speaker upgrade.

halo

nooshinjohn wrote: »

It will be the same on the Outback, as well as the Legacy. They utilize the same components throughout. I worked the line building them, installing dashboard assemblies and such.

Better off to go high level off the radio to a new amp and leave the head unit alone.

The head unit is easily replaced on our Outback because we have the manual climate controls with the premium audio, it looks like it's the HK crossover amp that has to stay put (unless I can find an adapter as @nbrowser suggested).

halo

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

Maybe just a speaker upgrade.

Can’t really do that. The OEM HK amp sends the signals to the speakers and it has a built in crossover sending the highs to the separate tweeters in the doors and the mids/lows to the woofers in the doors. Unfortunately, I have no way to know what the crossover points are. Aftermarket speakers may not match those points appropriately and could sound pretty wonky.

I don’t know the actual output per channel of the HK amp either or the impedance of the door speakers.

The lows also go to the DVC woofer in the cargo area which is currently blown. The Legacy sedan has a SVC woofer in the rear deck.

jeremymarcinko

Well hell. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/beats-by-dr-dre-beats-studio2-wireless-over-the-ear-headphones-black/3044852.p?skuId=3044852

halo

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

Well hell. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/beats-by-dr-dre-beats-studio2-wireless-over-the-ear-headphones-black/3044852.p?skuId=3044852

Never

halo

nbrowser wrote: »

Look too bestkits.com and PAC Audio...they should have interfaces and whatnot to get around anything. Simple bypassing...is not advisable.

No go at either place. I’ll have to leave the HK amp connected to the ABS, VDC, & the sub. I can install a small aftermarket amp and new component speakers in the front and rear doors with dynamat. I’ve got an aftermarket head unit coming with a touchscreen and Bluetooth. It’ll connect to both amps. So weird. Not looking forward to running all new speaker wires but the stock speakers aren’t going to last. Ugh.

OleBoot

We had a Subaru Forester XT for a number of years and way over 100k miles. It was a great car, went like s*it of a shovel and was super reliable, but the electronics were ....funky. The sound system would turn on at different volumes at startup, the central locking was permanently in random mode, and we called the HVAC HAL as it seemed to ignore us completely.

FestYboy

Got the pin outs? Can you wait till this weekend? I might be able to garner a solution.

daddyjt

You should have bought a Nissan Leaf....

halo

FestYboy wrote: »

Got the pin outs? Can you wait till this weekend? I might be able to garner a solution.

I have the diagrams. The OEM HK crossover amp is under the passenger seat. I'm in no hurry as my nephew was going to help me do this at his shop but he was let go so we don't have a garage for the install any longer

I can replace the head unit in no time flat as I can do all the wiring in the house. Disassembling the parts to get the OEM head unit out is pretty straight forward and getting the replacement in won't take very long. We aren't moving until the middle to end of January so I still have some time.

Thanks for the offer of assistance. Much appreciated. Here are the pinouts (photo isn't mine) http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/09-h-k-changing-h-u-bypass-h-k-amp-112168.html

halo

daddyjt wrote: »

You should have bought a Nissan Leaf....

No where to put the wheelchair

FestYboy

Ok as I suspected, this is cake. You have the option to do any number of things, including but not limited to swapping out all components for aftermarket all while using most of the OEM harness. Don't let me forget, and I'll work it out for you using whatever component combination you like.

nooshinjohn

halo wrote: »

daddyjt wrote: »

You should have bought a Nissan Leaf....

No where to put the wheelchair

You should have bought a Hellcat powered wheelchair...

lightman1

halo wrote: »

daddyjt wrote: »

You should have bought a Nissan Leaf....

No where to put the wheelchair

Roof rack, Victor! And a fancy winch rig. C'mon man....think!

I like Johns idea, too.

halo

lightman1 wrote: »

Roof rack, Victor! And a fancy winch rig. C'mon man....think!

I like Johns idea, too.

Hmmm. No. That would take too long in the bad weathers. I’d get wet or frozen waiting for the winch plus my chair would be all messed up from the nasty weather

lightman1

halo wrote: »

lightman1 wrote: »

Roof rack, Victor! And a fancy winch rig. C'mon man....think!

I like Johns idea, too.

Hmmm. No. That would take too long in the bad weathers. I’d get wet or frozen waiting for the winch plus my chair would be all messed up from the nasty weather

Bummer......Back to the drawing board then!!

FestYboy

Ok this is crazy easy unless you need to use the factory aux input or steering wheel controls. The aux in isn't bad as an add on, but the wheel controls would have to be linked to the new HU face plate controls via hardwire.... Not fun and it would be a permanent mod.

If you want this to be able to be reversed in the future, I'd recommend finding the male ends for R315, R316, and R317 and pinning them for service loop so that the factory harness stays intact. For this install I would also recommend a 5 channel amp and run the front speakers as components with an aftermarket XO. Or you could bi-amp with a small 2 channel.

Let me know your thoughts and direction and I'll build for that.

Viking64

I think it would be easier to just buy a different car.

FestYboy

Nah, I just give back when I can. My rocking days happened well over a decade ago

halo

Hey everyone,

I contacted Crutchfield about all this. The first response came from CS. TThe second response came from tech. Here is the tech’s reply:

“Hello Victor,

Sorry that you've not been given the correct advice about this to allay your concerns yet. The premium factory amplifier DSP system on any of the Subaru vehicles with VDC or ABS can be safely replaced. The main thing to remember is to not connect anything to the VDC or ABS wire. That wire must be secured out of the way. The VDC is the Vehicle Dynamics Control system. Here is a link to a page with an explanation.<https://www.planetsubaru.com/subaru-vehicle-dynamics-control-vdc.htm&gt;

The factory amplifier in the Subaru Outback system just uses that data info on the VDC or ABS wire to enable a speed sensitive volume feature. The same wire connects to the ABS (anti-lock braking) system of the car if there is no VDC. But the amplifier is not providing data to those systems or affecting their functionality in any way. So one of the keys to successfully installing the aftermarket amp is to make sure that the Green/Black wire at pin B11 of the R316 plug is not connected in any way at all. Just insulate & secure that green/black out of the way. That's a serial data line. That wire has no requirement to terminate into the amplifier. The amplifier is just listening to that in order to know how fast the vehicle is moving. See attached image.

Subaru and many other car makers use data information buss connections to digitally signal to various systems in the car but thankfully they do not make the audio system responsible for things such as ABS braking or vehicle dynamics. Your install of the Kenwood head unit and amplifier can safely proceed. If your service technician or you have any questions on that you can call me directly if you like.”

Sweet! Now I can ditch the crappy factory amp and install a class AB amp with some real power under the passenger seat

halo

FestYboy wrote: »

Nah, I just give back when I can. My rocking days happened well over a decade ago

Thanks for your offer of assistance! I’ll be running the RCA cables from the back of the Kenwood head unit directly to the amp. While I could use the factory speaker wires, they are very thin (20 AWG maybe?). Definitely not thick enough to deliver the signal effectively over long runs. The thin wire is increasing the resistance and negating the power the amp can deliver effectively to the speakers.

FestYboy

Sounds like you have it well in hand then. Post results when you're finished.

[Deleted User]

Remember many years ago SEMA went after most of the car makers for running crap through the head unit to force buyers to have to buy their audio packages. Sounds like Subaru says fuggitt and is doing whatever they want to.

halo

FestYboy wrote: »

Sounds like you have it well in hand then. Post results when you're finished.

The plan changed a bit but change can be good. lol.

I sent back the Polk DB+ DB652 & Polk DB+ DB6502 & MTX THUNDER75.4. It was going to be too complicated for me to install the power cable on the battery & run it through a grommet in the firewall + pull out the seats to mount the new amp.

I decided to go with something that will work well with an aftermarket head unit instead so I picked up the Focal ISS 165 for the front doors & the Focal ISC 130 for the back doors.

Now, I'll just have to circumvent/bypass the DSP + amp under the passenger seat and send the signals for the FL (separate woofer + tweeter), FR (separate woofer + tweeter), and the RL & RR speakers directly from the aftermarket head unit to the drivers.

The OEM DSP + amp will still drive the little 8" sub in the cargo area. I replaced the blown OEM sub with a 8" Pioneer that's designed to work in that "enclosure.' Hopefully, by freeing the little amp of driving the other speakers it'll have a little more juice to drive the sub reliably.

I will definitely need to decipher which color wires do what and go where to make darn sure I get everything working correctly. I could use a little assistance deciphering wire colors and corresponding polarity @FestYboy

I think if I deaden the doors adequately, I should get much better sound out of the door speakers with the little sub just filling in what the door speakers are missing.

FestYboy

You'll like the Focals... Still the best sounding car speakers I've come across.

As for the harness links, I have that worked out already, just give me a bit to type it up.

halo

FestYboy wrote: »

You'll like the Focals... Still the best sounding car speakers I've come across.

As for the harness links, I have that worked out already, just give me a bit to type it up.

Cool. Will I still be able to retain tre use of the little OEM DSP amp for the OEM subwoofer in the cargo area?

It just occurred to me that the sub’s wires lead from the DSP amp to the sub but the head unit may just be inputting ALL audio signals from the head unit and sending out the signal to the little sub.