My SRS update

crashb4

I have been talking about updating my gen1 SRS for some time. I intended to do it this spring, but a new house, kitchen and bath remodel has taken all of my time and cash. I was reading Darqueknight's thread and commented to my wife that i wanted to do the same. I had left the thread open on my laptop, and my wife took the component values and vendor list and ordered the items covertly. I came home Friday night to a mystery box on my chair. when i opened it, there were all the goodies for the rebuild. She was quite excited to give it to me, so i didn't have the heart to tell her that I would have used some different components.

Disassembly consisted of removing each driver and carefully marking each wire for position and polarity to eliminate errors when reassembling. When I removed the left crossover plate, it was hanging on by one standoff. I'm surprised it didn't fall off.
Then out to the laboratory.



You can see the Mills .05 ohm resister that replaced the original poly switch. Crappy job, but i knew i would be back in there and i just wanted it to work. also, it's not easy to do with the assembly still wired and resting on your knee.



Here is the goodness that will help resurrect these monsters.




I will replace the high pass caps a bit down the road. My choice would have been Sonicap but I can't look a gift horse in the mouth. Plus I didn't want to come off as unappreciative. Not many wives would undertake this task. Mine is different and I appreciate the hell out of it.

I reworked all wires that were soldered to the board. 1.5 inches were removed from each wire to eliminate the oxidation from the years. You can't see just how bad they were from the photo, but it was the right thing to do.



I was able to fit most of the caps on the board except for the 130uF that were huge.



I pondered over where to put them for a while. I wanted to retain the relatively compact form factor of the crossover unit and ultimately decided on this.




We'll see if the current through them affects the inductors or not. As you can see, it makes for a compact installation. I would be interested to hear if anyone has experienced any negative effects from a similar positioning. I could move them to a daughter board with little effort, but I like where they are.









I got these binding plates from Trey some time ago. Time to put them to use.





The work was simple. You need patience, focus, time and a good soldering iron. I now have about 3 hours on the new components. Initially, the sound stage was much reduced from before the work. It is coming back a bit and will undoubtedly take some time. The overall sound is much improved. The attack and decay of notes is much more accurate. I immediately said to myself "wow, the snare actually sounds like a snare should". The background is pitch black and the booming bass is gone. I can still shake the house, but bass is much cleaner, tighter and more accurate. The work and expense were well worth it to me. I expect these to sweeten up over time. I currently have the system running constantly to get some hours in. Next will be inductors, and then the SDA 1A.

Conradicles

Good job.

delkal

Very nice looking job! Those 130uF caps are starting to get to ridiculous size but you found a great spot for them.

Sounds like you have a great wife.......But since you are in the habit of leaving computer threads open you should edit it to say those are exactly the caps you wanted (we will understand)

sansuibutch

Any chance you can post up your list of components and vendors? I've been wanting to do my xovers for a while also. Putting the list together with vendors is really all that's standing in my way. It gives me a huge headache.

sansuibutch

Also have you had a chance to burn these in? Did your soundstage return?

pitdogg2

sansuibutch wrote: »

Any chance you can post up your list of components and vendors? I've been wanting to do my xovers for a while also. Putting the list together with vendors is really all that's standing in my way. It gives me a huge headache.

You should probably have someone else do you XO then. Putting together the list and ordering is the easiest part.

sansuibutch

pitdogg2 wrote: »

sansuibutch wrote: »

Any chance you can post up your list of components and vendors? I've been wanting to do my xovers for a while also. Putting the list together with vendors is really all that's standing in my way. It gives me a huge headache.

You should probably have someone else do you XO then. Putting together the list and ordering is the easiest part.

Honestly assembling the xovers would be fun for me. I'm very good at that kind of thing. Every time I recap a amplifier I have to order so many caps but at least there all from the same place and now I have a big collection I can dig through for future endevers. I all Ways order extra. I don't use a computer so switching back and forth between all the tabs on my phone and going over all the different components and vendors is a real headache for me. If I have a list I will just call each vendor and talk to a rep and order over the phone. Much easier for me.

crashb4

sansuibutch wrote: »

Any chance you can post up your list of components and vendors? I've been wanting to do my xovers for a while also. Putting the list together with vendors is really all that's standing in my way. It gives me a huge headache.

From Darqueknight's thread
Capacitors (quantity per speaker):
4.4uF (1)
12uf (1)
20uF (2)
92uF (1)
130uF (2).

Resistors (quantity per speaker):
2.7 ohm (1)
7.5 ohm (1)
15 ohm (1)
22.5 ohm (2).

A 4.4 uF and 92uF capacitor was unavailable in the Solen PB series, so I used 4.3uF and 91uF respectively. The small differences between the stock and upgrade parts was within the 5% tolerance range of the original part

A 22.5 ohm part was unavailable, so I used 22 ohms. The 0.5 ohm difference was within the 10% tolerance range of the original part.

All parts were sourced from http://www.partsconnexion.com

As stated by others on the forum, Solen are not the best choice for the high pass circuit. Partsconnexion has listings for other brands as well.
Burn in is under way. The sound stage has not expanded. I will recheck the connections at the crossover board as it sounds like the interconnect cable is unhooked. I may well have swapped the leads from the Neutrik connectors. I will check this weekend and report back.

sansuibutch

crashb4 wrote: »

sansuibutch wrote: »

Any chance you can post up your list of components and vendors? I've been wanting to do my xovers for a while also. Putting the list together with vendors is really all that's standing in my way. It gives me a huge headache.

From Darqueknight's thread
Capacitors (quantity per speaker):
4.4uF (1)
12uf (1)
20uF (2)
92uF (1)
130uF (2).

Resistors (quantity per speaker):
2.7 ohm (1)
7.5 ohm (1)
15 ohm (1)
22.5 ohm (2).

A 4.4 uF and 92uF capacitor was unavailable in the Solen PB series, so I used 4.3uF and 91uF respectively. The small differences between the stock and upgrade parts was within the 5% tolerance range of the original part

A 22.5 ohm part was unavailable, so I used 22 ohms. The 0.5 ohm difference was within the 10% tolerance range of the original part.

All parts were sourced from http://www.partsconnexion.com

As stated by others on the forum, Solen are not the best choice for the high pass circuit. Partsconnexion has listings for other brands as well.
Burn in is under way. The sound stage has not expanded. I will recheck the connections at the crossover board as it sounds like the interconnect cable is unhooked. I may well have swapped the leads from the Neutrik connectors. I will check this weekend and report back.

Awesome. Thank you. I can't wait to hear your results.

F1nut

Crashb4, you did use the 4 pole high current, air tight Neutrik sockets and 4 pole high current speaker cable terminals, right?

crashb4

F1nut wrote: »

Crashb4, you did use the 4 pole high current, air tight Neutrik sockets and 4 pole high current speaker cable terminals, right?

Yes sir I did. Per everyone's recommendation.

monepolk

Looking good.

crashb4

I now have about 200 hours on the new components. The sound stage is only now beginning to expand. Most of the music is still between the speakers, but it is beginning to sneak out the sides. I thought that I had screwed something up as I don't remember anyone stating that it took this long to return.
The overall clarity of the sound has improved dramatically with the updates. The speakers are quite a bit louder than they were previously, and the weak left speaker is now as strong as the right. Bass is very much different now. It took a bit to get used to. It is no longer garbled and boomy. It is highly detailed and very smooth. Notes from a bass guitar are no longer lost in passages as before. I will report final thoughts as I reach the 350 to 400 hour mark. As it stands, I call the project a limited success. If I get my full stage back, it will be a wild success.

F1nut

If anything the soundstage should have been larger from the start. Are you sure you got everything wired up correctly?

crashb4

F1nut wrote: »

If anything the soundstage should have been larger from the start. Are you sure you got everything wired up correctly?

I have gone over everything multiple times. I am confident that all is as it should be. I am still wondering if the proximity of the 130uF caps to the inductors is an issue. I can move them, but I've had the crossovers out so many times now that I need a compelling reason to do it again.

F1nut

I'm not 100% about the cap/inductor question, but generally they are in close proximity on most crossovers, so I kind of doubt that's the issue.

I can tell you all it takes is one or two drivers to be wired incorrectly for the stage to collapse.

crashb4

I bow to the experienced. Sunday will be tear down and verification of wiring again. Sure does sound sweet though.

F1nut

Have you tried disconnecting the SDA cable to see if the stage changes?

crashb4

Just did. No change.

F1nut

Ok, that's a very good indication that something isn't wired correctly.

crashb4

Yes it is. I checked the SDA interconnect leads first. They are reversed side to side as they should be. The Neutrik were switched from the OE binding plates to Trey's. they worked prior to the update.

F1nut

Reversed at the back of the Neutrik sockets and not the wires in the cable, correct?

crashb4

Correct

crashb4

Well there it is. Took the speakers apart again (no small task). All wiring exactly as it should be. Damn. Took out the crossover on the right speaker (2nd one done). Low and behold, a very dull solder joint on one of the 130uF caps. Lead freely moving. That's not right. Reworked the joint, checked every other one and repeat for the left. Reassemble and>....................... Blissful beauty. The improvements initially heard are magnified many factors over. This is unbelievable. So worth the time, energy and effort. I wish you all could hear this.

A very heart felt shout out to Jess. Thanks for putting me back in diagnostic mode. Your experience and willingness to share make it possible for those like me to fearlessly conquer the unknown.

nooshinjohn

That's why Jesse is the Club Polk President for life.

gimpod

nooshinjohn wrote: »

That's why Jesse is the Club Polk President for life.

This should be official.

sansuibutch

I finally put my order in for these components. I had to add the resistor that replaces the polyswitch to your list, but I am excited and can't wait to tackle this project. Thank you again.

sansuibutch

crashb4 wrote: »

I have been talking about updating my gen1 SRS for some time. I intended to do it this spring, but a new house, kitchen and bath remodel has taken all of my time and cash. I was reading Darqueknight's thread and commented to my wife that i wanted to do the same. I had left the thread open on my laptop, and my wife took the component values and vendor list and ordered the items covertly. I came home Friday night to a mystery box on my chair. when i opened it, there were all the goodies for the rebuild. She was quite excited to give it to me, so i didn't have the heart to tell her that I would have used some different components.

Disassembly consisted of removing each driver and carefully marking each wire for position and polarity to eliminate errors when reassembling. When I removed the left crossover plate, it was hanging on by one standoff. I'm surprised it didn't fall off.
Then out to the laboratory.



You can see the Mills .05 ohm resister that replaced the original poly switch. Crappy job, but i knew i would be back in there and i just wanted it to work. also, it's not easy to do with the assembly still wired and resting on your knee.



Here is the goodness that will help resurrect these monsters.




I will replace the high pass caps a bit down the road. My choice would have been Sonicap but I can't look a gift horse in the mouth. Plus I didn't want to come off as unappreciative. Not many wives would undertake this task. Mine is different and I appreciate the hell out of it.

I reworked all wires that were soldered to the board. 1.5 inches were removed from each wire to eliminate the oxidation from the years. You can't see just how bad they were from the photo, but it was the right thing to do.



I was able to fit most of the caps on the board except for the 130uF that were huge.



I pondered over where to put them for a while. I wanted to retain the relatively compact form factor of the crossover unit and ultimately decided on this.




We'll see if the current through them affects the inductors or not. As you can see, it makes for a compact installation. I would be interested to hear if anyone has experienced any negative effects from a similar positioning. I could move them to a daughter board with little effort, but I like where they are.









I got these binding plates from Trey some time ago. Time to put them to use.





The work was simple. You need patience, focus, time and a good soldering iron. I now have about 3 hours on the new components. Initially, the sound stage was much reduced from before the work. It is coming back a bit and will undoubtedly take some time. The overall sound is much improved. The attack and decay of notes is much more accurate. I immediately said to myself "wow, the snare actually sounds like a snare should". The background is pitch black and the booming bass is gone. I can still shake the house, but bass is much cleaner, tighter and more accurate. The work and expense were well worth it to me. I expect these to sweeten up over time. I currently have the system running constantly to get some hours in. Next will be inductors, and then the SDA 1A.

All my components arrived today. I pulled one of my xovers out an am ready to get down to it. I do have one question, I noticed in your pictures after the recap you never replaced C2 and C5. It lookes like you removed them and never reinstalled them. Did you replace them and never took a pic? Or for some reason did you just not use them?

sansuibutch

crashb4

Remove these two bypass caps and leave the holes empty.

sansuibutch

crashb4 wrote: »

Remove these two bypass caps and leave the holes empty.

Thank you very much