AR 2ax speakers. Any thoughts?

Dabutcher

Had a chance to buy today for $140. Consecutive serials. All paperwork on back. Cannot get fronts off to inspect drivers. Pristine condition. One small chip in back. Anyone had their ears around them. Thanks. D

[Deleted User]

The woofer surrounds may need replaced...
If they are the cloth ones like my AR's no of course. Some doped the surrounds
as they my have perforated over time. I didn't.

If you are looking for bass slam move on...

price is fine...
if you are looking to build a vintage system...

I would rather have some S20's

Jimbo18

They were some of my first speakers back in the early 70's. I loved them then, but really hadn't heard that many other speakers to compare them to at that time. As mentioned above, not much bass.

mhardy6647

You'll look at the drivers and snicker a little bit -- but if they're in good working order, you'll probably stop snickering when you hear them.

If in good shape, the price is OK. Not a bargain, but OK.

As mentioned above, a couple of different woofers were used in these; surrounds may be foam or cloth (and those may also need some attention).

The worst failure mode of the classic AR loudspeakers are the rheostats (not L-pads) used in the crossover circuit. They get really, really corroded and may be noisy or even essentially nonfunctional. They can be rehabbed (with a fair amount of effort) or replaced.

So -- the classic AR speakers rather famously recreate a "middle of the hall" acoustic balance. They are rather rolled off even by the standards of the 1960s in the treble. They are also, like all of the classic AR acoustic suspension designs, somewhat overdamped. This being said, even the low(er) end AR-2 family is capable of pretty prodigious LF output (and quality) if fed with plenty of power. The bass will, I'd opine, be at its best with a good soiled state amp. Yes, I actually wrote that

They are easy to listen to. Kind of kludge-y (note, e.g., the cone MRs which are "response tailored" with a little bit of fiberglass or something stuffed in front of 'em) but very pleasant.

mhardy6647

Here's the AR-2 family in context FYI and FWIW.

AR-2family1961 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
1966 ARs by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

The original AR-2, even in the context of the early 1960s, didn't really have a tweeter! Many folks added on tweeters (e.g., the Radio Shack electrostatic, which they even sold bundled with the AR-2 in their catalogs in the early 1960s). The AR-2a added a little dome tweeter. The AR-2x was a bargain version; two-way with a little cone tweeter (the same as the AR-2ax MR, I think). The AR-2ax was the deluxe version; three way with the little dome and a cone MR. In the later (Teledyne AR) era, I think that the AR-12 was pretty comparable to the AR-2ax.



-- also, you all probably know this already, but in case you don't, the go-to site for the "New England School of loudspeaker design & construction" is www.classicspeakerpages.net

Tonnes of info there on AR, EPI/Epicure, KLH, Advent, Roy Allison's companies, & Cizek, plus a forum.



From a 1970 brochure, according to www.classicspeakerpages.net

SCompRacer

I restored a pair Victor bought for his father. One rheostat was beyond repair, had to get a replacement off ebay.

I can't find the pics, but here is a youtube video.

https://youtu.be/mbrykpVC4-0

mhardy6647

Thanks for posting that.

Dabutcher

Thanks for the help. Without being able to look at the drivers or listen to them. I was not going to pay that much for them. The cabinets were 9/10 and very beautiful. That's what had me gaga for them. Peace. D

halo

SCompRacer wrote: »

I restored a pair Victor bought for his father. One rheostat was beyond repair, had to get a replacement off ebay.

I can't find the pics, but here is a youtube video.

https://youtu.be/mbrykpVC4-0

Dad still has them. He had to replace the woofers in the smaller speakers but the bigger 3-way (AR-2ax?) are still doing fine with their cloth surrounds.

Here's a link to the thread: http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/36254/new-er-old-speaks#latest

jdjohn

I'm all about continuing old threads with new material, so here we go. I originally posted about this find here https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/50838/looking-for-misc-audio-deals-of-the-day-updated-info-here/p273

Picked-up this pair of AR-2ax today for $65 from an ad on OfferUp.
The face only an audiofool could love:

Sorry for the fuzziness, but I was taking that pic without a tripod.

The stands were included, and are actually screwed-on, but can be removed fairly easily. Cabinets are in pretty nice shape for their age (~45 years old?). The grills are in bad shape...frames broken, cloth a little stained, and one AR badge missing, but all that is fixable or replaceable. The mid driver on one is not working, so will check it out - could just be the potentiometer (known to corrode), but those are replaceable, too. I probably don't need to tell most of you old farts that these speakers are somewhat legendary, so luckily there is a lot of aftermarket support, and reproduction parts are available.

For initial testing, I hooked them up to a little vintage HK-430 receiver, and the sound is quite nice for any age IMO. I know it will be better with both mids functioning properly in stereo. The AR-2ax 'super tweeter' was advanced for its time, and it still sounds good to me. There is a separate lug on the back for bi-amping the super tweeter, but mine has a bridge-wire in place ATM.

Ok, my wife is upstairs, and she just asked me to turn the bass down. Gotta love that. Speaking of my wife, she thinks they are 'cute' with their vintage look and attached stands, and mentioned she would like to have them in her 'yoga room'. The current configuration in her yoga room is a little Topping TP22 class T amp driving a pair of Beovox S45 speakers (with the stock metal stands). Inputs available are either a Logitech Squeezebox Touch, or her iPhone via aux cord. I'm actually a little jealous of that system in her yoga room (aka, woman cave).

lawdogg

Congrats, I just sold mine, but loved them while I had em.

jdjohn

Thanks! I figured out the problem with the non-working mid. It was wired backwards from a 'technician' after he worked on the crossovers...or, replaced the caps. Kind of hard to do since there is clearly a yellow dot of paint on the back of the driver frame/basket that should correspond with the yellow wire

This technician also simply taped the XO caps together and left them dangling by the wires. I have new drop-in reproduction pots on the way, so will properly glue-down the caps to the board while I'm in there. I'm also putting into new gaskets via Armacell tape.

The lady I bought these from paid $350 to the dude who 'reworked' the insides! She probably never noticed that one of the mids wasn't working.

I'll have more money into these with improvements than I actually paid for the speakers themselves. Oh well. They are classics and worth it IMO. Will probably keep them in the family, maybe as a gift to my daughter someday.

jdjohn

At first glance, I thought these mesh screens were made of metal, but alas, they are just nylon.



I am of the opinion that they should be removed. I think they were supposed to protect the backs of the woofers from the fiberglass fill material, but that is long gone at this point. I will probably experiment with adding polyfill in a few different configurations.

Any objections to removing these screens?

pitdogg2

No need to really. One way or another they are not affecting anything.

VSAT88

Only one objection..They came that way stock/original : ) Nice find, enjoy them !

leftwinger57

what ever they sound like both the AR3a and the Dalhquist D-10 have to be the ugliest grill off speaker ever made. Yes they both sound great for their era but you guys have to agree on the ugliness. Keep those grills on....

westmassguy

Those screens should not be removed. Whether they were there to keep the fiber glass out, or possibly to add some damping to the cone movement, by limiting the air flow behind it, we'll never know. Henry's no longer with us, but his genius lives on.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

jdjohn

I did leave the screens on. My guess is that they were originally meant to keep the fiberglass fill out.

Other things I did to my pair:

• Installed drop-in replacement level control pots. I liked the sound best with the levels at max, so ended-up moving the driver negative leads, for mid and high, from the B/3 variable post to the 1 post on the pots. This keeps the expected resistance load in circuit, but effectively has them running wide open. The two crossover caps had already been replaced with Solens.
• Eliminated the need for a jumper between speaker wire posts 2 & T. These speakers could technically be bi-wired for the woofer and the mid/tweet, but I moved the wire lead ring connector from 2 to T inside the cabinet, so now all three drivers share the same positive post.
• Installed a single 1x1 brace between the front and back panels. This is probably overkill since those panels are 1.25" thick, but since I also put some polyfill in the top, the brace helps hold it in place. I also put a thin layer of polyfill in the bottom of the cabinets. I adjusted the amount of polyfill by ear, with a 'less is more' approach. I know the original material was fiberglass, but frankly, I didn't want to mess with that stuff.

I still need to apply fresh sealer to the cloth surrounds, but these speakers are sounding pretty darn good. I currently have them hooked-up to a MAC1700 receiver, and there is some good synergy there. On a side note, the phonostage in the MAC1700 is superb!