TODAY I STOLE ME A PIECE OF GEAR!

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  • Mikey081057
    Mikey081057 Posts: 7,127
    Very nice piece of 60's gear...
    My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

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  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Great find. I have fond memories of those old consoles and that lush tube sound from back in the day. When my ex and I first looked at the house we ended up buying there was a console stereo in the living room. I couldn't help myself and had to turn it on.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    I've told you guys this story before :p but this is a good time to tell it again.

    Years and years and years ago, when I was a fat undergrad, John Dorsey of Soundscape, for whatever reason (probably pity, but not because I was starving!), invited me over to his house for dinner. I remember him gleefully showing me his living room hifi -- a very vintage Maggotbox (Magnovox) vacuum tube console stereo. He was dead serious, too.

    Within their limitations, they weren't half-bad, and the amplifiers in them still astonish me in the quality of sound they produce given their almost laughably simple and chintzy design and construction.

    Here, e.g., is a slightly modified, standalone push-pull 6V6 Maggotbox stereo console amp that I rehabbed for someone at some point, years back.

    The OPTs aren't exactly massive, and the parts count is about as low as it can be for a stereo PP power amplifier -- but these are very decent sounding amplifiers by any reasonable standard. :)


    10652373054_98df25c306_b.jpgP1020244 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    10652345635_6cd286cb70_b.jpgP1020247 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    kharp1 wrote: »
    Great find. I have fond memories of those old consoles and that lush tube sound from back in the day. When my ex and I first looked at the house we ended up buying there was a console stereo in the living room. I couldn't help myself and had to turn it on.

    I agree, we did turn this one on for a single day, and in that single day we listened as a family to more music than we had in a long time.

    I'm going to mod it (as I've said quite a few times) to allow for input of a streaming audio device of some sort, as while we LOVE listening to music, we'd prefer to have some voice commands as well for us and the kids.

    So "next song" or "play X" translates directly to the console. It will let us relax and listen to music without needing a controller, a TV attached, etc.

    For my wife, this would be a BIG BIG deal.

    I could actually see moving our dining room table to the eat in kitchen, setting up some chairs in the current dining room (which is right off the entry), a electric fireplace, and making it more of a "open study" to relax and talk in. No TV, simple music and done.
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I've told you guys this story before :p but this is a good time to tell it again.

    Years and years and years ago, when I was a fat undergrad, John Dorsey of Soundscape, for whatever reason (probably pity, but not because I was starving!), invited me over to his house for dinner. I remember him gleefully showing me his living room hifi -- a very vintage Maggotbox (Magnovox) vacuum tube console stereo. He was dead serious, too.

    Within their limitations, they weren't half-bad, and the amplifiers in them still astonish me in the quality of sound they produce given their almost laughably simple and chintzy design and construction.

    Here, e.g., is a slightly modified, standalone push-pull 6V6 Maggotbox stereo console amp that I rehabbed for someone at some point, years back.

    The OPTs aren't exactly massive, and the parts count is about as low as it can be for a stereo PP power amplifier -- but these are very decent sounding amplifiers by any reasonable standard. :)


    10652373054_98df25c306_b.jpgP1020244 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    10652345635_6cd286cb70_b.jpgP1020247 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    When we "did" play the console, I couldn't get it above 3 before it was too much. I can't wait to see how it sounds once its back up to snuff!

    Since its me, I also plan to learn just what wattage each channel has so I can see if there are potential upgrades (down the line) I can do speaker wise.

    In general I'm going to catalog all I've done in laminated sheets, in a binder, along with copies of any manuals/research, etc I find on it. Then once I've got all that stuff together, the binder will live inside the console to preserve its heritage.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 20,809
    Pretty cool Dan
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    ...

    When we "did" play the console, I couldn't get it above 3 before it was too much. I can't wait to see how it sounds once its back up to snuff!

    Since its me, I also plan to learn just what wattage each channel has so I can see if there are potential upgrades (down the line) I can do speaker wise.

    In general I'm going to catalog all I've done in laminated sheets, in a binder, along with copies of any manuals/research, etc I find on it. Then once I've got all that stuff together, the binder will live inside the console to preserve its heritage.

    Wattage per channel is easy (this is the Motorola, right?)
    Three channels: the two stereo channels are single-ended EL84 (i.e., 6BQ5)
    The third channel ('sub'woofer and/or reverb channel?) is push-pull EL84

    SE EL84 pentode mode is good for about 5 watts at "hifi" levels of THD (<1%)
    PP EL84 pentode mode is good for about 12 to 14 watts at similar levels of THD

    o3z9dq81d2q8.png
    kp4mzc9lvmxw.png

    Datasheet for 6BQ5/EL84
    https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/191/6/6BN11.pdf
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    edited October 2018
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Wattage per channel is easy (this is the Motorola, right?)
    Three channels: the two stereo channels are single-ended EL84 (i.e., 6BQ5)
    The third channel ('sub'woofer and/or reverb channel?) is push-pull EL84

    SE EL84 pentode mode is good for about 5 watts at "hifi" levels of THD (<1%)
    PP EL84 pentode mode is good for about 12 to 14 watts at similar levels of THD

    o3z9dq81d2q8.png
    kp4mzc9lvmxw.png

    Datasheet for 6BQ5/EL84
    https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/191/6/6BN11.pdf

    Well @mhardy6647 this is where I'm confused. On the actual amp, the label seems to indicated something different from that schematic. Thats one of the things I'm working through as it appears my unit may be an "upgraded" unit with tuner from one series and amp from another lol..... If I'm reading the label right it looks like I'm using all EL84's for the power part....
    Schematic:
    558ui60modsb.jpeg

    Model number:
    2qujslboqd0y.jpeg


    The guys at VintageHiFi have been helpful thus far pointing me where to check model numbers and whatnot......
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 20,809
    6bq5 had an interesting moniker
    6bar-b-q5. Did those tend to eat tubes are go all flame linear?
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 7,538
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    6bq5 had an interesting moniker
    6bar-b-q5. Did those tend to eat tubes are go all flame linear?



    bbqd.gif

    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo IIISE Pro ES9038 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    edited October 2018
    ...

    Well @mhardy6647 this is where I'm confused. On the actual amp, the label seems to indicated something different from that schematic. Thats one of the things I'm working through as it appears my unit may be an "upgraded" unit with tuner from one series and amp from another lol..... If I'm reading the label right it looks like I'm using all EL84's for the power part....
    Schematic:
    558ui60modsb.jpeg

    Model number:
    2qujslboqd0y.jpeg


    The guys at VintageHiFi have been helpful thus far pointing me where to check model numbers and whatnot......

    If this is the configuration of your amplifier:


    x58jfskuslah.png

    It is the same, at least in basic topology, as the info in the Sams "photofact" schematics.

    Note what the tube ID informaton in that chart you posted says :)

    You have two EL84 (or 6BQ5) tubes as outputs for the BASS CHAN PWR AMP; this is a single push pull amplifier channel: The "top" 12AX7 serves as the driver or "AF AMP" (one triode section of the tube) and phase splitter (the other section of the tube) for the bass channel amp.

    You have two additional EL84 (or 6BQ5) tubes as outputs for, respectively, the L CHAN PWR AMP and R CHAN PWR AMP. These two channels are single-ended. The "bottom" 12AX7 is the driver ("AF AMP") for those two power amps (one section of the 12AX7 feeding each channel)

    You have three output transformers: two smaller ones, and one larger one. The two smaller ones are for the L & R channels; the larger one is for the bass channel.

    single-ended EL84/6BQ5 = ca. 5 watts
    push-pull EL84/6BQ5 = ca. 12-14 watts

    What are you confused about?
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    edited October 2018
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    6bq5 had an interesting moniker
    6bar-b-q5. Did those tend to eat tubes are go all flame linear?
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    6bq5 had an interesting moniker
    6bar-b-q5. Did those tend to eat tubes are go all flame linear?



    bbqd.gif


    This (the one on the right) is a barbecued EL84 (in a gee-tar amp) :(

    tjarbdbpy8e0.png

    source: http://www.marshallforum.com/media/el84-red-plating.2957/

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 20,809
    I'd say that IS a very red plate...
    Marshmallows anyone?
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I'd say that IS a very red plate...
    Marshmallows anyone?

    Yeah -- them gee-tar guys, you know? Always turnin' the amps up to eleven...

    jwxwx6zv6yik.png
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 7,538
    edited October 2018
    S'more!

    l0f3slzs0tr7.jpg
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo IIISE Pro ES9038 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 7,538
    Neat pic I took of a 5Y3WGT rectifier.

    fcavz08ffw5d.jpg
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo IIISE Pro ES9038 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    ...

    Well @mhardy6647 this is where I'm confused. On the actual amp, the label seems to indicated something different from that schematic. Thats one of the things I'm working through as it appears my unit may be an "upgraded" unit with tuner from one series and amp from another lol..... If I'm reading the label right it looks like I'm using all EL84's for the power part....
    Schematic:
    558ui60modsb.jpeg

    Model number:
    2qujslboqd0y.jpeg


    The guys at VintageHiFi have been helpful thus far pointing me where to check model numbers and whatnot......

    If this is the configuration of your amplifier:


    x58jfskuslah.png

    It is the same, at least in basic topology, as the info in the Sams "photofact" schematics.

    Note what the tube ID informaton in that chart you posted says :)

    You have two EL84 (or 6BQ5) tubes as outputs for the BASS CHAN PWR AMP; this is a single push pull amplifier channel: The "top" 12AX7 serves as the driver or "AF AMP" (one triode section of the tube) and phase splitter (the other section of the tube) for the bass channel amp.

    You have two additional EL84 (or 6BQ5) tubes as outputs for, respectively, the L CHAN PWR AMP and R CHAN PWR AMP. These two channels are single-ended. The "bottom" 12AX7 is the driver ("AF AMP") for those two power amps (one section of the 12AX7 feeding each channel)

    You have three output transformers: two smaller ones, and one larger one. The two smaller ones are for the L & R channels; the larger one is for the bass channel.

    single-ended EL84/6BQ5 = ca. 5 watts
    push-pull EL84/6BQ5 = ca. 12-14 watts

    What are you confused about?

    Nothing... apparently I am having a severe case of “lack of reading comprehension” today lol.

    So L/R each are 5 watts (shared per channel by a tweeter and woofer), and 12 watts for the 12” “woofer”
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    That would be my semi-educated guess, yes :)

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    That's more power than I have for my main loudspeakers, if that makes you feel any better ;)

  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    That's more power than I have for my main loudspeakers, if that makes you feel any better ;)

    True, but EACH of your main speakers is the size of my console and they are not open baffle either :wink:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 7,538
    edited October 2018
    Dan, watts up? :D
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo IIISE Pro ES9038 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    edited October 2018
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Dan, watts up? :D

    HAHA!

    Nice one!

    Right now nothing, just debating if I grab a label maker and go to town on this console so I can pull the tube amp and take some pics of it and start determining what I need to replace so I can start buying parts lol...

    That and then I can pull the speakers, inspect them for damage, and debate if I want to replace/upgrade anything.....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    That's more power than I have for my main loudspeakers, if that makes you feel any better ;)

    True, but EACH of your main speakers is the size of my console and they are not open baffle either :wink:

    There is no replacement for displacement :)

    In seriousness, as you've already discovered empirically, the drivers in your console are plenty sensitive. I like those Motorola "Golden Voice" drivers, too -- they're very nicely made.

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    Does the Sams give any indication of the speaker impedance or the output impedance of the OPT secondaries?

    That would be good to know :)
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    edited October 2018
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Does the Sams give any indication of the speaker impedance or the output impedance of the OPT secondaries?

    That would be good to know :)

    I see 6-8 ohms for the power transformers and 6-8 ohms for both the 4" and 6" drivers.

    dwy7umlvc4cf.png


    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    Cool - that makes life easier :)
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Cool - that makes life easier :)

    Yup, it means if I ever do a replacement/upgrade outside using what they have now, I better make DARN SURE its a high efficiency driver lol....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    mhardy6647 wrote: »

    Yup.... but I ain't got time for all that..... I'd just ask you what to do..... your'e kinda a "bit" immersed in that scene :wink:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • tonyp063
    tonyp063 Posts: 940

    Yup, it means if I ever do a replacement/upgrade outside using what they have now, I better make DARN SURE its a high efficiency driver lol....

    Why look!

    The rabbit hole is wide open now

    :)
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    edited November 2018
    While everyone else was sleeping off their turkey in the house....

    I got to work testing this baby apart and labeling everything.

    Took me a few hours but I got it separated into Tuner | Amp | Preamp.

    The Tuner and Amp came out. The Preamp seems to be stuck so I’m not messing with it.

    Some pics of things...

    Still working through labeling and disconnecting everything:
    tjrgqyfrwiie.jpeg

    Tuner removed:

    d67bbalj724n.jpeg

    Tuner schematic

    gp816l345pb7.jpeg
    13tpx43ejr7f.jpeg

    Pre-amp info

    dq2idtavig6m.jpeg

    k6r8jaegvwus.jpeg
    I plan to try harder to remove it tomorrow. I cant see if there are some sort of screws I'm missing......

    Amp as it came out of the console.

    818uf31wqbfp.jpeg

    "Wiped Down" section of the amp v original. Lots of dust and grime. Chassis is a nice copper color that I'd like to shine up if I can so any suggestions welcomed....

    qgnsq20esd9c.jpeg

    Think this tube might have seen the last of its time
    pqlnf04awpn5.jpeg

    Chassis cleaned up with all the tubes out.
    ghnn9z6thhgq.jpeg

    Underneath the chassis
    oc0b0w2ruv5f.jpeg


    Anyone think this tube might have been a problem hehehe

    ec4kco53wzfu.jpeg
    Post edited by EndersShadow on
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)