TODAY I STOLE ME A PIECE OF GEAR!

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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    edited June 2017
    Thanks @mhardy6647

    I will post the schematics tomorrow. I forgot to bring them with me to work to scan this morning, but have them on top my wallet.

    So hopefully tomorrow afternoon you will have info galore to dive into and help me out further.

    For now we are running it at 4 or less on the "Loudness" and only for an hour or two at a time each day. It starts, runs and then gets turned off the for night.

    I am getting the schematics to my buddy tomorrow after work and discussing how to properly attack this baby..

    If I get a free moment to test it in the method your suggesting I will. I also have a thermal temp gun so I will prob just point that at the cans and whatnot and see how hotit is....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    I never thought of that (an IR gun) :)

    It's subtle, but usually one can tell if a component is getting warm by association (e.g., by being close to an output or HV rectifier tube or the power transformer) vs. getting warm of its own volition (so to speak).
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    Manual "should" be attached in grayscale.

    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    Color is attached......

    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    edited June 2017
    It is indeed.

    Whoo-hoo, it's got Vibrasonic! ;)

    As an aside: That document is the "Sams" for your console, not a manual per se. Howard W. Sams & Co was (and, as Sams Technical Publishing, still is) a third-party supplier of service information for electronics. I have most of my father's collection of Sams "Photofacts" in the basement :)

    https://www.samswebsite.com/
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Whoo-hoo, it's got Vibrasonic! ;)

    Yeah, what is that lol?
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    As an aside: That document is the "Sams" for your console, not a manual per se. Howard W. Sams & Co was (and, as Sams Technical Publishing, still is) a third-party supplier of service information for electronics. I have most of my father's collection of Sams "Photofacts" in the basement :)

    https://www.samswebsite.com/

    Good to know. I'm just happy to have the schematics for everything. Should make fixing er up easier on my tech, thats for sure, since he's got a parts list for everything and can easily identify the parts he thinks I should replace.

    The original owner must have had two, because I also have one of these for a Zenith 10ZT30, 10ZT31 unit, which I obviously DO NOT have...

    In other new @oldrocker if you find any more consoles out there when stumbling around, let me know lol. I'm still on the hunt for a tube amp or two.....



    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    one cannot have too many (tube amplifiers, that is) -- well... ok... maybe in July ;)

    Vibrasonic is an on-board reverb unit, for that big sound :)
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    one cannot have too many (tube amplifiers, that is) -- well... ok... maybe in July ;)

    Vibrasonic is an on-board reverb unit, for that big sound :)

    EWWWWW.... yeah, that will stay at 0 lol.......
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 9,508
    We had a Zenith when I was a kid. That thing was solid and good sound. I think it was replaced with one of those "surround sound" units that resembled the Polk power ports sort of, but IIRC all the sound from the Zenith speakers went to the circular port, actually liked the way it sounded as a kid. I think I burned out a copy of CSN&Y Deja Vu on that thing. Lol.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    Steve "Decware" Deckert borrowed (ahem) the design for his little SE-84 Zen amp from an "entry level" ;) Zenith console amp design (single-ended 6BQ5 stereo amp). The Zenith, though, was of course not wired to run the output tubes as trioodes ;)

    There's one of each here, amusingly enough (an SE-84B and the Zenith progenitor, that is).

    As a snarky aside: Deckert's stuff sounds fairly good, but his hyperbole is hyperbolic even by hifi guru standards :)
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Steve "Decware" Deckert borrowed (ahem) the design for his little SE-84 Zen amp from an "entry level" ;) Zenith console amp design (single-ended 6BQ5 stereo amp). The Zenith, though, was of course not wired to run the output tubes as trioodes ;)

    As a snarky aside: Deckert's stuff sounds fairly good, but his hyperbole is hyperbolic even by hifi guru standards :)

    Off topic on my own thread, but his DM945 bookshelf speaker has always intrigued me as there is no phsyical crossover between the tweeter and woofer. And then for even MORE fun, you can add the Monolith option and drop it super low as a floorstander....

    He's also located not too far away in IL, bout 3 hours one way.....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • oldrocker
    oldrocker Posts: 2,587
    Will keep an eye out for you.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    edited June 2017
    ...

    Off topic on my own thread, but his DM945 bookshelf speaker has always intrigued me as there is no phsyical crossover between the tweeter and woofer. And then for even MORE fun, you can add the Monolith option and drop it super low as a floorstander....

    He's also located not too far away in IL, bout 3 hours one way.....


    Heh, that link illustrates Steve's flair perfectly.
    The response of this driver is smooth enough that no crossover is needed! The natural silk speaker cone damped by a rubber surround makes possible a beautifully smooth and laid back midrange.

    This is complimented by a seamless pairing to a planar dynamic ribbon tweeter. The tweeter is protected by a boutique film capacitor.

    Let me translate that into English :)
    The woofer doesn't have terribly horrible HF breakup, so we run it 'wide open', sans crossover, and use a decent capacitor first order crossover on the tweeter.
    .

    Which is, of course, exactly what (to name just one of the better ones) EPI's Winslow Burhoe did starting ca. 1970.

    It is a good cheap way to build a decent loudspeaker.

    Burhoe made his own woofers to enable the use of only 1 capacitor in the classic EPI loudspeakers.

    This approach is also a just plain cheap way to build a cheap loudspeaker (using dime-store NP electrolytics). There are thousands of examples out there, from department store brands, Radio Shack, Lafayette, loss-leader "Brand X" speakers from hifi stores of old, etc.

    Mind you -- this is not to say that Deckert's speakers might not sound good. They may well sound very good. But his purple prose (Drew A Kaplan on steroids -- or is that stereo-oids?) is... well... it's too much for me.

    He does build (or at least, he has built) some good sounding stuff, though. I think he's gotten way expensive for what he sells... but it's worth a three-hour drive to hear and see for yourself. He's still in Peoria, I assume?

    As I said, I was an early Decware adopter (SE-84B "Zen" amp) and, other than very low output power (not quite enough oompf for Klipsch Cornwalls playing 'little girl with guitar' music, at my house). it was, and is, a good sounding little amplifier. Five minutes listening to a single-ended 2A3 amp, and I put the "Zen" back in its little shipping box. It did come very nicely and compactly packed!

    EDIT:

    1) note that Steve refers to what most of us would call the "tweeter crossover cap" as "protection"... sounds like something you have to ask the druggist for at CVS ;)

    2) Marky's FrankenAltecs, at the moment, are all first order, albeit with an inductor on the woofer units.

    First order at ca. 700 Hz on the woofer drivers of the Duplexes (HF drivers disconnected).
    First order at ca. 700 Hz on the JBL 2441 treble drivers.
    First order at ca. 20,000 Hz (!) on the Fostex T90A supertweeters.

    :)
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    Oh. hey. I can bring this right back on topic! When you get things straightened out in that console, replace those nasty old NP electrolytics with any halfway decent "modern" crossover capacitors.

    Or go hog-wild and put WE oilers in there ;)

    33722835425_356edb2df3_b.jpgDSC_7330 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    My tech knows his stuff for sure. He told me that basically I just need to replace about 45 bucks worth of parts, and total cost would likely be around 150 with labor and tax.

    I will likely be adding it to his list of new work come August.

    Thankfully he's REALLY good at what he does..... but because of that he's normally backed up a month or two. Right now he's not taking in any new work till August to get caught up on his backlog.....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    edited June 2017
    I had a thought so I called a buddy whose MUCH SMARTER than I am at this stuff.

    My thought was to see if there was a way to use a FM Transmitter connected to my phone in order to be able to stream music off it, etc....

    He said that probably was NOT a good idea (and we talked through the why, which I wont bore you with).

    However he looked over the schematics and had a suggestion which I think I will likely try.

    He mentioned that if I never planned to use the Phono input, that I could just pull those RCA's out of the pre-amp and use them for another device.

    His exact wording was this:
    Looking at the schematic, it would appear that there is RCA connectors into the preamp chassis. If you look at the schematic, top left corner for instance, you can see on the drawing a representation of an RCA and below it an associated switch to go between the phono and the tuner. So either could be used to inject audio to the system.

    If you were never going to use the TT for instance, you could pull that RCA input labeled Phono, and route cabling from a source in there. This is past the phono eq and gain stages, so either should be line level in. Older line level was usually rather low by today’s standards, so just don’t overdrive it. IE…a hot output level CD player might overload the input.

    You could try those inputs with a headphone cable to RCA and turn the level kinda low. BTW…this would help trouble shoot too as it leaves out the tuner or TT pre stages.

    So I am going to potentially try that later tonight since both kids will be at grandma's as my wife has back surgery at 8:00 am tomorrow lol....

    If connecting my phone works, what I might try to do is buy a chromecast audio to use via 3.5mm to RCA out to the device. I would control the line level input signal via the phone, and make sure not to crank it and overdrive the input.

    Alternately if that isnt a good idea a cheap blutooth receiver might work as well.

    Additionally I'd get my tech to measure the input voltage coming from the FM input into the pre-amp and try not to go over that. That or reconnect the phono input and have him get a voltage reading off that while the selector is set on phono.....

    Then I could know how much signal from the chromecast is too much for sure....

    Any thoughts from a certain @mhardy6647 or others?
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    edited June 2017
    yeah, I've been a lot of help so far ;)
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,617
    Since Dan "stole" it, he won't cry too much if someone else steals it from him.....after it's all fixed up of course. ;):)
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    edited June 2017
    tonyb wrote: »
    Since Dan "stole" it, he won't cry too much if someone else steals it from him.....after it's all fixed up of course. ;):)

    You'd actually have to get through me, and then for once, my wife. Shes been more protective of it than I have been.

    Her words last night "I feel like we are finally adults (see note 1) with a REAL house now, with REAL furniture".... followed shortly thereafter "After I get these chairs painted (see Note 2 below), the Dining room is not only done, its DONE DONE"

    **Note 1** I assumed by "we" she meant "she" as we all know I ain't no adult doing adulting things

    **Note 2** we picked up some solid wooden with carved headrests that we are going to distress a bit more and then paint over the regular wood finish with white so it matches our existing table.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,602
    Looks really retro cool!

    Looks like fun, but a lot of work. Good luck with it.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    edited October 2018
    Update. I got some time and I’ve been working with some folks on another forum to identify the internals and also discuss replacing things. So far they have been super helpful in letting me know to indeed NOT turn this thing on until the caps and resistors have been replaced.

    Today I took a minute or two to clean the inside of the console with the vacuum and then some soapy water and a wipe down.

    I hope in the next two weeks to label everything and then disconnect the tube amp to take better pictures of it, and also maybe pull the tuner out as well for the same reason. When I do that I plan to try to wipe down the amp chassis a bit to bring it back up to snuff, as well as have the tubes tested to see if they are still ok or need to be replaced.

    Also with the tube amp and tuner pulled I will have better access to clean the internals, and also at that point I plan to pull out the speakers themselves to inspect them.

    I’m also hoping I can find a tech I can afford (IE Free or super low cost) locally I can get to help me replace the parts that need it and check the tubes.

    Here are some pics....

    Some information from the amp itself:

    Schematic:
    558ui60modsb.jpeg

    Model number:
    2qujslboqd0y.jpeg


    Info from the tuner:

    Schematic:
    crl3v5r7z0g2.jpeg

    Model number:
    wqnroeljrclq.jpeg

    Serial Number:
    1jtxpmgn82zy.jpeg

    Info from the refurb/third channel thingy

    gn0n3qkud18u.jpeg
    h9a0fcv80mvb.jpeg

    Cleaned pictures:
    aubpri2jn44u.jpeg
    pssdn5drkadb.jpeg
    kn77uijyegpa.jpeg
    yv4k0afrknoj.jpeg
    Post edited by EndersShadow on
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • oldrocker
    oldrocker Posts: 2,587
    A couple of pics of the one I pulled last week.
    yw5dr60n0wyf.jpg
    5rgdp8om1a2j.jpg




    What's yer charge for cleaning?? B)

    Looking good man.
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    oldrocker wrote: »
    A couple of pics of the one I pulled last week.
    yw5dr60n0wyf.jpg
    5rgdp8om1a2j.jpg.
    Must know more... did you post pics of it?
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • oldrocker
    oldrocker Posts: 2,587
    It's showing here..What??? LOL
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 29,769
    It appears to be a radio not a hifi (mono or stereo).
    Nothing wrong with that, but a different kind of thing.

    yw5dr60n0wyf.jpg
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,313
    oldrocker wrote: »
    It's showing here..What??? LOL

    I want to see more pics of your find Dave... and hear the story lol
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • oldrocker
    oldrocker Posts: 2,587
    From that old Magnavox console "I think it's from that one" :D
  • oldrocker
    oldrocker Posts: 2,587
    Nope, it's from that old Philco 46-123 console...D'oh!!
  • Mikey081057
    Mikey081057 Posts: 7,127
    Jesse... My cleaning lady uses this stuff and it seems to work fine on all wood surfaces including the black lacquer stuff....no wax

    https://methodhome.com/products/wood-for-good-daily-clean/
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  • oldrocker
    oldrocker Posts: 2,587
    Since it probably needs more work than any other of the junk I've got sitting around here along with my horrible skills set, I just pulled the amp as a practice run.