Nippon Chemicon or Nichicon?
Comments
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My advice to the OP was rooted in physics and the electrical principals of amplifier design, and the interest of not having him or her spend additional money on parts that will not yield a measurable sonic improvement.
Except you can't generalize like that. Any amp designer worth their salt will tell you the best sound is achieved by paying close attention to the power supply design. It can make or break any piece of gear.
H9
P.s. I agree for his particular piece of gear and his situation get some nicer caps and be done. But you dismissed ALL power supplies as not having any effect on the final sound............and that's not true.
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Backert Labs is essentially founded solely on the power supply they developed.
Most if not all higher end companies pay very close attention to the power supply section.
Yes, probably took this farther than needed for the OP as an older receiver probably won't benefit for ultra pricey caps. But, just wanted to point out there are instances where it is very important and audible differences can be heard by updating the power section.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
The largest cost of a high end components is the power supply section, so if your statement is fact
What I can tell you, it's that from a physics standpoint, there is no audible link between the power supply and the sonic charachteristics of an amplifier
Why would they spend all that money on the power supply section. This is especially true for digital playback gear like DAC's and CDp's, etc.
H9
The cost of the power supply is irrelevant to the proposition that "audio grade" capacitors make a difference in it. They spend "all that money" because transformers and large filter caps are expensive.
BTW, you cut my quote short - the rest or it was stipulating that the supply was producing specified voltage and current, with under spec ripple.
"Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
Sorry about cutting it short, in all my examples I asked about the specified voltage and current were in spec.
And you didn't say anything about caps, you said;
What I can tell you, it's that from a physics standpoint, there is no audible link between the power supply and the sonic charachteristics of an amplifier.
Which infers you are talking about anything in the power supply, not just caps
Yes, big trannys are expensive......but beyond on a big tranny they pay special attention to rectifiers, regulators, didodes and even the resistors used in the power supply because it does influence the final sound.
Inexpensive switching supplies are all in spec to make the gear perform, but they sound pretty bad compared to the same piece of gear with a properly designed linear power supply.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Well, maybe I should have mentioned this is my kitchen/dining rig. If I really wanted ultimate clarity and soundstage while whipping up my favorite Mexican dish, I would hire a live mariachi band.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Sorry about cutting it short, in all my examples I asked about the specified voltage and current were in spec.
And you didn't say anything about caps, you said;
What I can tell you, it's that from a physics standpoint, there is no audible link between the power supply and the sonic charachteristics of an amplifier.
Which infers you are talking about anything in the power supply, not just caps
Yes, big trannys are expensive......but beyond on a big tranny they pay special attention to rectifiers, regulators, didodes and even the resistors used in the power supply because it does influence the final sound.
Inexpensive switching supplies are all in spec to make the gear perform, but they sound pretty bad compared to the same piece of gear with a properly designed linear power supply.
H9
I'm sorry, I thought this thread was about capacitors...?
Yes, I know what goes into a power supply - and as I stated, aside from the transformer, the gain stages use more expensive, and tighter spec parts. Most power supplies use 5% resistors and 20% caps, while most amp boards use 1% resistors and 10% caps.
Look, I am not trying to overcome your expectation bias with science and measurable charachteristics - as I said previously, if it sounds better to you, great. I was simply explaining to the OP that there is no measurable benefit to spending more money on "Audio grade" capacitors in the power supply. Period.
"Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
Well, maybe I should have mentioned this is my kitchen/dining rig. If I really wanted ultimate clarity and soundstage while whipping up my favorite Mexican dish, I would hire a live mariachi band.
I apologize that your thread has become hijacked, and your light-hearted approach to our diatribe is appreciated. Your LED mod looks great, btw
"Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
I was simply explaining to the OP that there is no measurable benefit to spending more money on "Audio grade" capacitors in the power supply, In My Opinion.
Fixed it for you
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Ok, I'll bite - what specifically is the measurable benefit? Because if you cannot provide a measurable benefit, then it's not "my opinion" that there is no measurable benefit.
"Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
No, you are in the right, as my first post asked for opinions and experiences.
And my replies can be facetious. I've only become sarcastic since joining this forum however..hehe.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Doubtful, but at that point I would simply cease to participate.
Although I'm not showing my custom CRS build...
They're not forum friendly.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Ok, I'll bite - what specifically is the measurable benefit? Because if you cannot provide a measurable benefit, then it's not "my opinion" that there is no measurable benefit.
Science can't measure things such as sound stage, imaging, etc., so while measurements play a role they do not tell you everything.......far from it.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Doubtful, but at that point I would simply cease to participate.
Although I'm not showing my custom CRS build...
They're not forum friendly.
Trouble maker!
I hearby declare your new screen name to be..........
Wait
Here it comes......
xschop-capri!!!
Who's yer Daddy???!!!
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???...did someone forget to take their scripts?Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Ok, I'll bite - what specifically is the measurable benefit? Because if you cannot provide a measurable benefit, then it's not "my opinion" that there is no measurable benefit.
Science can't measure things such as sound stage, imaging, etc., so while measurements play a role they do not tell you everything.......far from it.
Nor are you able to definitely provide proof of many things you claim to be able to hear or differentiate when telling about them on the forum.
Does that mean your anecdotes are not real, or simply expectation?
Imaging and sound stage are not Directly measurable yes, as they occur within the listeners mind, just as how bias and expectation do. -
^^^Nor can you debate what we hear or don't hear.
I've offered demonstrations and was never taken up on them. Even at a public venue.2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Nor are you able to definitely provide proof of many things you claim to be able to hear or differentiate when telling about them on the forum.
Does that mean your anecdotes are not real, or simply expectation?
Imaging and sound stage are not Directly measurable yes, as they occur within the listeners mind, just as how bias and expectation do.
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Nor are you able to definitely provide proof of many things you claim to be able to hear or differentiate when telling about them on the forum.
Does that mean your anecdotes are not real, or simply expectation?
Imaging and sound stage are not Directly measurable yes, as they occur within the listeners mind, just as how bias and expectation do.
Hey! Don't use my own GIF against me.....
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Guess we'll never hear a definitive answer from the horse's mouth.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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Ok, I'll bite - what specifically is the measurable benefit? Because if you cannot provide a measurable benefit, then it's not "my opinion" that there is no measurable benefit.
Science can't measure things such as sound stage, imaging, etc., so while measurements play a role they do not tell you everything.......far from it.
Nor are you able to definitely provide proof of many things you claim to be able to hear or differentiate when telling about them on the forum.
Does that mean your anecdotes are not real, or simply expectation?
Imaging and sound stage are not Directly measurable yes, as they occur within the listeners mind, just as how bias and expectation do.
I can provide proof, I experienced it therefore it is. You have absolutely no way to prove otherwise. Pretty obvious you're the one with bias issues around here.
I have a question for you. Don't you ever get tired of failing?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
How do you guys discharge the large capacitors and live to tell about it?Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Just kidding, crappy insulated screw driver and short it, yes it will pop and likely leave a couple char marks2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »Just kidding, crappy insulated screw driver and short it, yes it will pop and likely leave a couple char marks
You forgot the part about standing in a bucket of water... -
How do you guys discharge the large capacitors and live to tell about it?
Shorting can damage traces on the pcb. I use a 150w incandescent light bulb - short it with the bulb in series, only takes a couple seconds.
"Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
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