SDA upgrade thread 2

honestaquarian

Oh my god
You guys just all got to have the last word and will not let this crap go. @motorstereo f$@!#= and your f+%)&?! Junior high school teacher. You come in to a thread and don't know what the hell is going on and start running off at the mouth like you're some kind of expert on what is going on in my house.
You know what?
You guys can have this damn thread. I was gonna keep blogging, but it is impossible to please you people..

msg

Hey Carlton, just wanted to check in with you on your project to see how it's going. You do still have the speakers and Dreadnought, right? Haven't tossed everything out the window?

Sorry man, I thought you requested your thread be deleted, as I couldn't find it a while back. Just trying to make light here. I'm sorry it got out of hand and some of us ganged up on you a bit and gave you a hard time. I was enjoying following along and learned a few things. I hope your project finished up nicely and that you're enjoying everything, or that things are going well if you're still working on it.

polrbehr

^^^ Nice post, @msg, no BS.

vmaxer

I thought this thread was deleted?

honestaquarian

The following is part of an e-mail exchange that I had with @KennethSwauger

honestaquarian May 24
Kenneth
I felt the need to send you this, because while I do not owe anyone an explanation for leaving the forum (*AGAIN*) I DO feel the need to clear the air with you about this issue and hope that something good will eventually come of all of this.
Janet Jackson once made an observation/statement in an interview that stuck with me, because she was brave enough to admit it. They were talking about the teasing that goes on with kids as they are playing and such and Janet said that "not everyone can just brush that off". That stuck with me,because it applies to me as well. Some people can take being insulted or ribbed or teased and walk away and not feel any worse for wear.

Others cannot do that so easily.

The ones who DO feel this stuff more deeply and are affected by it are judged HARSHLY for being such pansies, punks, sissies and such for just having feelings!! (*and often the harshest critics are closet feelers themselves*)
Some people can see the foolishness that people type and it doesn't bother them one bit.
Meanwhile it DOES bother others and sometimes deeply and it doesn't just go away so easily.

I am one of the latter and as much as I DO NOT like to admit it I AM.

Believe it or not I actually lost sleep over the way that I was being treated by the trolls on my upgrade thread. Which is why I just finally decide to scrap the whole thing and give them a middle finger by having you delete it.
It has taken me all of this time to finally get back to doing the upgrades, because every time I tried I would end up thinking about those jerks and the way that they were acting and I would just walk away from my speakers.

Part of the problem with all of this is that there are essentially NO consequences for their behavior AND THEY KNOW IT.

Another part of the problem is that often most people go to the victims of this bad behavior and ask the victims to make concessions INSTEAD of asking the perpetrators to do that.
To once again use the example that I gave you previously; A child in class decides they don't want another child sitting near them for whatever reason. So they sneakily start lobbing spitballs at them or using their hands or fingers to flick the other child's ear or hair in order to bother them. When the child who is being bothered protests, the teacher (*who is only interested in bringing calm back to the class and not in doing anything more than that*) takes the quick and easy route and asks the child who is protesting to get up and move. Again most would see this as a perfectly feasible solution to the problem and leave it at that.
What NEVER ceases to amaze me even now at age 50 is that I have to explain to people this is a backward solution and you are punishing the victim by doing this. Most people do not get what I am talking about (*it would appear you didn't either when I told you previously. If I am wrong please let me know*) and I have to explain further (*which is what I had to do with you and that is why I said what I said in the above parentheses*) that the wrong message is being sent here. That message being to the victim that it is NOT okay to stand up for yourself, as there will be repercussions. The message to the perpetrator is that they can get away with what they are doing and to keep doing it and it is "okay" as there are no repercussions for doing it. The really jacked up part is that the child who was bothering the other child wound up getting EXACTLY what they wanted (*that being the other child is no longer sitting near them*) and are no worse for the wear for doing what they did in order to get what they wanted.

THIS BOTHERS THE LIVING HELL OUT OF ME!!!!!

ESPECIALLY when you consider the fact that the ADULT doesn't even see what was REALLY going on here! (*Mainly because they chose to take the quick and easy route that required the least amount of work to achieve and are perfectly happy with the results-which is peace and quiet in the classroom again*)

No I am NOT asking for your pity or anything of that like. I am a grown man thank you very much. It has not exactly been easy to type this and it has taken all of this time to finally work up the nerve to do it.

What I AM asking is that you consider what I have said and realize I am NOT the only one out there like this.

As long as the trolls KNOW that there will be NO repercussions whatsoever for their bad behavior on this forum, they WILL continue to do what they are doing.
Meanwhile the Southern New Englander in me will continue to quietly say F@%$ alla Y'all and not come back.

I greatly appreciate what I have learned and gained here and will continue to benefit from it for some time to come. I am happy and grateful to have been able to participate in the transformer group buy and just wanted to be able to share with my fellow Polkies what I was doing and hopefully have them do the same on my thread.

Unfortunately no one else chose to step up and I was left alone to do it.

Now I can see WHY they opted out of sharing what they were doing.
If you are not doing everything perfectly and making it look professional like you were selling it to someone and such then LORD HELP YOU. I STILL cannot believe all of that mess began over some ugly solder joints which have gone inside of and enclosed case, which will never be opened again (*unless something goes wrong*) that will be hidden behind the stereo!!

Peace and long life my brother.

Carlton
KennethSwauger
KennethSwauger May 24
Hello Carlton,
Thank you for taking the time to send me your feelings, I can appreciate that it wasn't easy for you to do. A couple of weeks ago I enlisted the help of one of the Polk CS reps, Ken Carter, in trying to identify CP members who exhibited poor behavior and either correct this behavior or eliminate those members. I felt I couldn't do it alone and without some official support structure from Polk I would be subject to unwanted aggravation. While there was some initial observation and progress toward this resolution the project has somewhat stalled. I suspect Ken has other requirements that have temporarily needed his attention.
I have forwarded your above post to Ken with the hope that it's sincerity gets things rolling once again.
Again, thank you.
Ken

honestaquarian

I tried to put all of this in one post,but it was too long and I lost all of it and had to break it up. I posted that e-mail exchange in the hopes that it will begin a conversation about the bad behavior that goes on here on this forum that I will not be returning to.
I fully expect the trolls will return with their negativity, snark, jokes, condescension and what not. However since I am not coming back I will not be seeing any of it.
Hopefully more people will step up and continue this conversation and not stand for this bad behavior.
Especially the ganging up on people when they disagree with someone!

What REALLY got to me above was how many people were clicking on the agree, like, and LOL tabs when the trolls were trolling and I got nothing when I was standing up to them!
I DID, however get some Private messages of support from three members after I had decided to leave the forum. Gentleman I greatly appreciate it even if it was a little too late for me.
Mad props to @KennethSwauger , @BlueBirdMusic , @msg and @ptrooper
Thank you Ken
Thank you Harry
Thank you Scott
Thank you Sean

Listening to this ironically as I am typing this and it sounds SUBLIME!


Almost at the 400 hour mark in the break in period. I never did reopen the dreadnought case and everything is working wonderfully!




Bass improved by an order of magnitude. It is now very nearly as tight as my subs. Room modes notwithstanding.
Mids and highs are far more detailed and have an ease that previously wasn't there. Vocals are no longer as shouty as they once were. This is something that one might not even notice until it is gone.
Thank you @VR3 for the excellent crossovers!
Trey rules!

Happy soon to be 4th of July all and I'm gone.

msg

Hey Carlton,
thumbs up to your bravery in admitting being a feeler.
Thumbs down to your feeling the need to leave, but I can understand the why of it,

Again, I offer my sincere apologies for my part, real and perceived, in your upsetting experience here on your build thread. There certainly was a lot of emotion in those exchanges, and not all of it your own. This is an unfortunate end, to say the least.

I'm glad you got your projects completed and enjoying them.

Take it easy, man.
Scott

ptrooper

Great Thread Carlton.
I do hope you change your mind and stay as i myself really enjoyed following your progress which i guarantee others will learn from in the future .This club needs more people like yourself who happily engage in threads showing their full progress and photographs. I myself have spent many many hours in the past rolling through various threads for information such as this as each of the problems i had occurred with my upgrades.
I know its so very easy for me to say "don't let anyone upset you".I am sorry that i didn't reinforce your feelings during the posts.I myself don't have much time for people who knowingly play with others emotional responses, especially mine.
In life we learn that everybody is different and there are those who obviously don't know when to stop. Well , where i come from a good punch to the head usually sorts things out quickly.
Vr3mods is an Artist
Glad to hear your feeling and hearing the music via Trey's workmanship.Its sad that its not seen whilst installed!Please let me know if you hear a difference at 500 hrs?
Cheers Sean

F1nut

I read through all ten pages to see what Carlton was speaking of. I see a lot of people trying to help and offering constructive advice. I see that advice being thrown back at the person trying to help including the OP calling me a drunk and calling others trolls. Actually, the only poor behavior seen here is from Carlton.

Toolfan66

Agreed^^^

Personally this thread should just be deleted before it turns another ugly head...

Fact: Everyone was trying to help you and wanting you to do a better job because of their love for these speakers!!

Fact: You were doing the name calling!!

Fact: you didn't want to listen to constructive criticism!!

Yet you turn to Ken and tell him how your feelings were hurt by the trolls, I don't see any trolls in this thread but maybe one!!!

msg

Ah c'mon Jesse, don't you think it was on both sides by the time it escalated? Not everyone's got a thick skin, you know? I can see how he felt pounced, and then disheartened when his thread got derailed with the escalation.

Nothing wrong with what everyone was offering - I, too, thought it well intentioned, but I think it came across a little harsh from everyone all at once. Agreed, wasn't cool on the firing back though, either. Just a shame, overall, really, imho.

F1nut

Sorry Scott, the text speaks for itself.

I also think it wasn't cool to post Kenneth Swauger's response to him.

vmaxer

From another point of view, this was kind of an instructional thread. Do "we" really want to teach this? A cold soldier or bad soldier joint isn't good as long as it's covered up. (Just one point)

He had the thread removed and then opened back up??

I do understand people being sensitive but seems that turned to anger by the responses.

I have learned a lot in life through mistakes and constructive criticism. It isn't always an easy pill to swallow but better in the long run.

I personally wouldn't want to teach something wrong, I would want it pointed out.

This is more of possible cause for several not to chime in with their upgrades - not wanting to teach the wrong thing.

Leave that to the experienced members.

I have never been afraid to ask for help or advice, I prefer things to be the best possible, my feelings be damned.

It was probably best for this thread to remain gone for that reason.


Edit - no reason at all you couldn't stick around and contribute to the forum and continue to learn (and go broke with the rest of us).

ptrooper

Its Quite obvious that someones upset and something has upset them. Assessing , aknowledging emotions whether they be in surroundings or in writing and going out of your way to remedy a situation shows care and consideration.
Msg has apologised ,Good on you Mate!

machone

You should stay Carlton.
All anybody wanted was for you to fix the solder joint and continue on; and then everything went South.
Come on man!

msg

I agree, Jesse, that sharing Ken's response was not appropriate without Ken's permission. I would not have liked that if it were me, and would have asked to have it removed. There is a reason for PM, an implied privacy, and I cringed when I saw that.

My point is that Carlton shared a lot of himself in this build thread and his feelings were hurt, but he was trying not to show that. Things got out of hand. I'd hoped that Ken would simply delete all the bad posts and leave Carlton's tech stuff up and maybe we could have had a clean slate to work with, but it didn't work out that way.

Thank you for that Sean, but I can't take credit for that. My motive is probably somewhat selfish in a way, unburdening myself. I feel bad for how that all went down, and regret my part in it, again real and perceived. I say perceived because I have a side, as well, that I do not think was heard or understood properly. Regardless, the effect is all the same without proper understanding.

Given Carlton's state of upset, I felt the need to try to do some part here to try to help him get back to feeling okay. We put so much of ourselves out here, sometimes; we want to belong and to be accepted among our peers, unconditionally at times. To feel valued in our communities. Not everyone can gracefully accept blunt criticism, no matter how well intentioned. That's what happened here - one of our guys was hurt by some feedback he felt was harsh, and from more than a few members, myself included. The path to correct that hurt and misunderstanding is not to hammer into him why he's wrong, but to understand his reaction, recognize where his anger was coming from, and then maybe back off and explain a little more gently and give things some time to cool off. Different personalities. This is how good relationships should work, right? You hurt and piss each other off - it's inevitable - talk about it, learn, and make adjustments if you can - if you don't kill each other first - and then your relationship is better for the effort. Each learns something about themselves in the process. Of course, both sides have to be willing, otherwise, this is not possible and you end up polarized.

Toolfan66

But to come back and share how he felt is one thing but to come back and call those that only wanted the best for his project trolls is completely uncalled for, if he was wanting to make peace he would of left that out including Ken's PM post's..

His entire post is only making him look worse, and stir the pot..

Again this thread needs to be taken down.

With that said I commend those of you looking at it differently and trying to sway him to stay and be a part of the forum, I'm not saying he needs to go away but this thread does..

He didn't help himself with his post, he went about it the wrong way just as he did with the help that was given to him..

I'm out of this at this point..

Carlton I wish you the best, enjoy the music!!!

msg

Nottt so fast, Larry lol
I agree with you, coming back like that is angry and spiteful - "I'm leaving! And I'm taking my toys with me! You'll be sorry when I'm gone!"

Can't you see the guy's in anguish, man? Seriously, is this how you guys would all treat anyone in your lives who lashed out at you after you inadvertently hurt their feelings? Be angry with them? Cut them off? Kill off the relationship and never speak with them again? For what? Making a mistake? Having their feelings hurt? Having some social difficulties? Being HUMAN?

The word "troll" is misused, granted. But is it really that big of an insult, though, when you know you're not one? That word gets thrown around here so promiscuously lately it makes me roll my eyes every time I see it - Oh gyahd, herrre we go again... Just like when I read, "Massive soundstage extending miles beyond my walls!!!" (not saying that can't happen, but c'mon - exaggerated a bit?)

I keep seeing guys saying this - after they get their say. Why take down the thread? Because it's ugly? Everyone squeezes in a final word and then says okay, shut it down so there can be no more discussion?

Instead of dumping it completely, why not just strip it of posts like this and leave the tech process stuff, and reword the suggestions for the correction of the issue that caused this mess in the first place? Heck man, I'll even volunteer to edit the entire thread and pass them on to Ken, and then lock it, sure.

Look, I haven't done my speakers yet, either the 2.3TLs (that Big Brother Jesse turned me on to when I was struggling in the beginning to find my direction) or the Monitor 10s along with the two sets of innovative rings I ordered from you Larry, nor the crossovers. (right about now you're probably thinking, gimme that schitt back you don't deserve to have my rings! well, I'm keeping them ) I haven't worked up the motivation because, while reasonably handy and capable, I'm anxious about taking it on and getting them completed to my perfectionist satisfaction and I know it's going to take a lot of time and concentration. Well, and then here comes Carlton, less than ideal space, limited access to tools or on-demand transportation, and the guy hits it head on?!? Call me easily impressed if you like, but that's inspiring to me. Point is, I learned some things here, good and bad. The entire thread isn't bad so why should we lose what's good? There's some merit here.

Along these lines, I'm getting sick of losing good tech threads with thread-crapping arguments about who's right. Ignore those chumps and they go away. Report the ones that off topic garbage and request their removal.

I'm not discounting anything anyone has said here. We're ALL wrong about some of this. We're ALL right about some of it too. You can't grow if you just sweep the ugly stuff under the rug and pretend it didn't happen, or pass off the blame to a scapegoat.
(or escapegoat as my buddy's wife endearing, unwittingly called it). This is just going to happen again and again, unless all those involved take a look at themselves and say, "Okay, yeah, I coulda handled that a little better. Next time..."

Arguing to be right accomplishes nothing. At that point, it is an argument for power and pride, and no longer for the good of the subject or the relationship.

My rate is $150/hr.
All insurances accepted.

Toolfan66

Okay, good points, and you got me to laugh as well!! LOL!!!

Where do I send the check??

msg

Good, man, good, this is what it's all about, I think

I'll just take a credit toward your next innovative fabrication offering

[Deleted User]

To clarify, the first communication between myself and Carlton was at the request of another CP member, asking me to have Carlton refrain from contacting, via PM, this other member. I did so and this began a conversation between Carlton and myself, he didn't initiate the complaint, but rather responded to my request. I reinstated all the deleted posts and forwarded the entire thread to Polk as an example of what needed to be addressed. The result is an ongoing initiative to make Club Polk a better place for everyone.
As such I'll now re close this thread before any further damage to this effort can happen.