Downsizing Home Theater - 5.1 To 3.1

2»

Comments

  • Thorton
    Thorton Posts: 1,321
    DK, they can cut the center support brace to the height you need. I had mine cut to a 15.5" opening, not only to have enough space for my 12" height center channel speaker but so I could angle the tweeter to fire at ear level. I don't have the two smaller doors though and really didn't want them anyways blocking the display on the pre/pro.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
    Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
    DAC: Bricasti M1SE
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
    Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
  • xsmi
    xsmi Posts: 1,627
    DK, do you play saxophone?
    2-channel
    Belles 22A Pre, Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2, Marantz SA8005, Pro-Ject RPM-10 Turntable, Schiit Mani Phono Pre, Moon LP 3 Phono Pre, Polk Audio SDA-SRS, AudioQuest Cable throughout.
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,640
    xsmi wrote: »
    DK, do you play saxophone?

    Yes.
    Thorton wrote: »
    DK, they can cut the center support brace to the height you need.

    No need for a custom length center brace at this time. The shelf kit comes with a 17.7" high brace, which is the exact height needed to accommodate the smaller 17.5" high doors.

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,640
    Salamander Synergy Quad 30 Conversion
    Installation of Wide Center Channel Shelf



    HT-LSi15FrontSpkEd-s_zpsr9sriezw.jpg
    Figure 10. Starting point: Quad 30 cabinet with four full height doors.

    001%20Q30%20Top%20Center%20Shelf%20Rmv-s_zps1glocege.jpg
    Figure 11. Center doors removed.

    002%20Milk%20Crate%20Platform-s_zps9hxcog39.jpg
    Figure 12. Rolling platform for plasma TV removal.

    It turned out that the height of the dolly, plus the height of two hard plastic milk crates, plus the height of a disassembled cabinet side panel, equaled the height of the Quad 30 cabinet. All I had to do was slide the TV onto the platform and roll it away.

    004%20TV%20Rollout-s_zpskcbkl7vo.jpg
    Figure 13. Ready to roll.

    005%20Q30%20Top%20Off-s_zpsmbcp32q0.jpg
    Figure 14. Top off.

    006%20Q30Prop%20Up-s_zpsc8bccrwi.jpg
    Figure 15. The curved end of a crowbar was used to prop up the front of the cabinet so that four thick books (two in center, two at ends) could be placed under it. This allowed easy removal of the front center pillar's foot.

    007%20Q30%20Crowbar-s_zpspmqzw9u5.jpg
    Figure 16. Similar to a wife with a dollar or two of her own, a crowbar is a handy thing to have around the house.

    The two components on the shelves supported by the center pillar were pushed far to the opposite rear corner. This allowed removal of the shelf pegs without having to remove the shelves and the components (digital and analog preamps) on them. That would have been a lot of connections to undo and redo.

    008%20Q30%20Top%20On-s_zpsgbdq9csh.jpg
    Figure 17. Center shelf installed.

    I miscalculated the height of the center channel space a little bit. I calculated 9.25" based on the height of the short center pillar (17.25"), the thickness of the shelf (0.75"), and the height of the tall pillars (27.75"). The finished height was 1/8" less (9.125") due to 1/8" thick rubber pads on top of the center pillar and the side rails which supported the shelf.

    009%20TV%20Slide%20Back-s_zpsgm1do7fa.jpg
    Figure 18. Sliding the Kuro plasma TV back in place.

    010%20HT%20LSi%20Front%20Stage-s_zpsioaqijzv.jpg
    Figure 19. Conversion complete.

    All set for the delivery of the LSiM 706c center channel speaker, LSiM 705 front speakers, and LSiM 702 F/X surround speakers.

    Going from dual center channel speakers (two LSi9s) to a single center meant that only one channel of the Adcom GFA-5500 amp could be used or both channels could be used in a bi-amplification configuration. I tried it both ways with the single LSi9 speaker and the bi-amped configuration had more weight and clarity.

    011%20702FX%20Placement-s_zpshh62lq3a.jpg
    Figure 20. Mark-offs for the location of the LSiM 702 F/X surround speakers.
    the bottom of the 702s will be 6.5' from the floor. Polk specifies a height of 6' - 8'
    feet from the floor for the 702s.


    Surround duty is handled in the interim by a pair of Fanfare Acoustics Prelude bookshelf speakers.

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,640
    edited March 2017
    ***Update***

    Finished! We have been enjoying the new LSiM speakers since last week.

    009%20LSiM705s-Installed-s_zpsjjcrwvth.jpg
    Figure 21. LSiM 705 front stage speakers, along with the LSi9 speaker previously used as a center channel.

    I wanted to try both the LSiM 707s and and 705s in front, but 707s in mahogany, and on sale, appear to be scarce. The 705s are probably the better match for my room and the distance I want to place the front speakers from wall.

    007%20LSiM705-Lsi15%20NoGrille-s_zpsvjfbcpt8.jpg
    Figure 22. LSiM 705 and LSi15. My LSi15s (and LSi9s) have crossovers modified with higher quality components. Still with all that, the 705 outperformed them in every respect.

    The LSiM 705s are the first Polk speaker, since the SDAs, that I enjoy for music listening. My modified LSi15s and LSi9s were suitable for music duty after crossover modification, but in stock form, I considered them strictly for home theater duty. The aesthetics, fit, finish, build quality, and out of the box sound quality of the 705s is outstanding!

    001%20HighStand702-s_zpslrkhb3jz.jpg
    Figure 23. Rear surround height trials. Don't be nervous. This was actually quite stable. Even if I gently pushed the 702s with a finger, they would return to a stable center resting position. The 702s can be either stand mounted or wall mounted. I experimented with stand mounting near ear level and various points above ear level.

    I had some concern that mounting the rear surrounds high would cause me to hear sounds far above the plane of the LF/C/RF speakers. I don't, unless the sound is specifically mixed to sound that way. Sounds from the left or right rear typically sound as if they are coming from behind me a little bit above ear level.

    I knew what the 702s weight and dimensions were before hand, but I was still surprised at their size upon seeing them in person. At 19-15/16" W x 16-1/4" H x 6-3/4" D, they are over 21% larger than my SDA CRS+s (20" W x 12-3/4" H x 10-1/8" D). My previous concerns with wall mounted surrounds had to do with aesthetics and sonic weight. Wall mounted surrounds with adequate sonic weight tended to be large and bulky and visually unappealing. Aesthetically pleasing wall mounted surrounds tended to be smaller and wimpy sounding. The 702s resolved both of those issues.

    Conclusion

    011%20LSiM%20Front%20Stage-Sub-s_zpscsghcbc2.jpg
    Figure 24. LSiM front stage: 705 front speakers, LSiM 706c center, along with the Bass Beast (SVS PB 12 Ultra/2 subwoofer) at the right.

    The LSi9s did a commendable job as center channel speakers. When the single LSi9 speaker was replaced with the LSiM 706c, the sounds from the front and rear speakers became apparently louder, clearer, and more distinct. There was also more clarity, detail, and weight with vocals and other sounds in the center.

    Like the single LSi9 speaker, the LSiM 706c is wired in a quasi-biamped configuration. One channel of an Adcom GFA-5500 power amplifier feeds the low frequency section, the other channel feeds the high frequency section.

    003%20702FinInstall-s_zpsw7hoayct.jpg
    Figure 25. Rear surrounds: Wall mounted LSiM 702 F/X surround speakers. The bottoms of the 702s are 6.5' from the floor.

    I don't have any plans to replace the 1080p Kuro plasma in the near future. None of the current OLED, LCD, or 4K sets have provided sufficient inducement to switch.

    Equipment List

    Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD Plasma Television
    Tivo HD XL Digital Video Recorder
    Sony TA-P9000ES 5.1 Channel Preamp
    Sony TA-E9000ES Digital Preamp Version 2.01
    Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD Blu-ray Player
    Bryston BDP-1 Digital Player
    PS Audio PerfectWave P10 AC Regenerator
    PS Audio PerfectWave P5 AC Regenerator
    Adcom GFA-5500 Power Amp (200 wpc) - Rear Speakers
    Adcom GFA-5500 Power Amp (200 wpc) - Center Speaker
    Adcom GFA-5500 Power Amp (200 wpc) - Front Speakers
    SVS PB12 Ultra/2 Subwoofer
    Salamander Quad 30 Audio/Video Cabinet
    Two Dedicated 20 Amp AC Circuits
    Signal Cable MagicPower and PS Audio AC-5 Power Cords
    Monster Cable Z2 Reference Speaker Cables (Front/Center)
    Monster UL/CL3 In-Wall/DSR Silverline Speaker Cables (Rear)






    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,414
    Very, very nice, enjoy.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 ch. 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony Bravia KDL-40R510C TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, SVS NSD-12 SB12 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,313
    How did you run those wires Ray ? Seems like you have a lot of obstacles in wall.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,234
    tonyb wrote: »
    How did you run those wires Ray ? Seems like you have a lot of obstacles in wall.

    I think I see whit cable conduit around the frame of that window and then it goes behind the picture and up, but I could be wrong
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 4,877
    Very nice.
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,158
    I think I see whit cable conduit around the frame of that window and then it goes behind the picture and up, but I could be wrong
    Eagle eye! Looks like he did a neat job.
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,234
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    I think I see whit cable conduit around the frame of that window and then it goes behind the picture and up, but I could be wrong
    Eagle eye! Looks like he did a neat job.

    I use conduit myself, and then this weekend got sick of it going up the wall and decided to try much luck at running it in the wall..... got it to working but its not as pretty as I'd like.

    Thankfully I have some conduit pieces coming to hide the holes in the baseboards.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,640
    tonyb wrote: »
    How did you run those wires Ray ? Seems like you have a lot of obstacles in wall.

    I think I see whit cable conduit around the frame of that window and then it goes behind the picture and up, but I could be wrong

    That's it. Looking at figure 25, the right speaker cable enters a conduit (painted to match the wall) at the base board, goes up along the edge of the window frame, makes a 90 degree turn right at the middle of the painting, then makes a 90 degree turn up to the speaker. Same for the left speaker cable.

    For the subwoofer and rear speakers, I do have in-wall and over the ceiling cable from the jack panel behind the equipment cabinet to a jack panel behind the subwoofer and to a jack panel on the other side of the room.

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,640
    I was curious about how 3.1 sounds as compared to 2.1 stereo home theater.

    I don't like it. There is no substitute for a real center speaker. However, if image weight and anchoring dialog to the center of the tv is not important to you, a 2.1 arrangement with a phantom center might suffice.
    Yamaha has some DSP effects that will create surround sound effects from only a 3.1 front speaker set-up. Did you use something like that for 3.1 surround, or is their a Dolby Digital just for 3.1 surround?

    No, I didn't use DSP effects to create fake rear channels. The rear L and R channels were turned off. My ancient (2001) Sony TA-E9000ES preamp/processor has DSP sound field algorithms that can create the following surround effects:

    1. Two virtual rear speakers derived from the two front speakers.
    2. Ten pairs of virtual speakers surrounding the listener derived from the two front speakers.
    3. Three pairs of virtual speakers surrounding the listener derived from the two front speakers.
    4. Five pairs of virtual speakers surrounding the listener derived from the two front and two rear speakers.
    Are the LSIM speakers equally adept at home theater and music or, are they better for one of the other?

    I found the LSiM 705s to be equally adept at both movies and music. I touched on that here:
    The LSiM 705s are the first Polk speaker, since the SDAs, that I enjoy for music listening. My modified LSi15s and LSi9s were suitable for music duty after crossover modification, but in stock form, I considered them strictly for home theater duty. The aesthetics, fit, finish, build quality, and out of the box sound quality of the 705s is outstanding!
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • Mr. Sharpe
    Mr. Sharpe Posts: 1,275
    tonyb wrote: »
    Smaller speakers ? Blasphemy I tell ya. lol

    This has one word written all over it Ray.....somehow someway.....there's a "woman" involved in these decisions. :)

    People might say I'm nuts, I'm going monitor 10's to sda 1, it's a big upgrade, I can only for these monsters next:-D no sense in going smaller for me!
    Electronics: Westinghouse 43" LED, Marantz UD-7007 player, Denon AVR-x3100w receiver/preamp, DIY Ethereal ESO-1 power conditioner, Parasound HCA-1500a power house.

    Speakers: Polk Audio RTA-12c mains, Polk Audio PSW-505 sub, Klipsch rc-10 center, Klipsch RB-41 surrounds.

    Cables: Audioquest King Cobras, Audiquest Diamondbacks, Pangea HDMI's (one for audio, one for video), KnuKonceptz sub cable, Pangea AC-14 and AC-14se's, Pangea AC-9, Dayton Audio speaker wire.
  • Mr. Sharpe
    Mr. Sharpe Posts: 1,275
    Although my HT speakers are klipsch rb-61 and an rc-10, which sounds amazing I might add, and rb 41's for surrounds, Man of Steel sounds wonderful.
    Electronics: Westinghouse 43" LED, Marantz UD-7007 player, Denon AVR-x3100w receiver/preamp, DIY Ethereal ESO-1 power conditioner, Parasound HCA-1500a power house.

    Speakers: Polk Audio RTA-12c mains, Polk Audio PSW-505 sub, Klipsch rc-10 center, Klipsch RB-41 surrounds.

    Cables: Audioquest King Cobras, Audiquest Diamondbacks, Pangea HDMI's (one for audio, one for video), KnuKonceptz sub cable, Pangea AC-14 and AC-14se's, Pangea AC-9, Dayton Audio speaker wire.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,718
    edited April 2017
  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,383
    Very nice and clean setup.

    I want to show these to my wife. Tell here to see what a clutter free room looks like.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • scubalab
    scubalab Posts: 3,011
    Beautiful room Ray. And beautiful sound to match. I have an LSiM-704c, and am really impressed at the build quality of even the entry level center! Nice work and great write-up.
  • gce
    gce Posts: 2,158
    Very nice setup Ray! A lot higher mounting on your 702s then I ended up doing but I see you're ok with the sound.
    Anaheim Hills CA,
    HT 5.1: Anthem MRX 720 / BDP-Denon DBT1713UD / Polkaudio LSiM703 / W4S mAmp's / Polkaudio LSiM706c / Polkaudio LSiM702F/X's / SVS PC12-NSD / Panasonic TC P55VT30

    2 Channel: Rogue RP-5 / WireWorld Electra power cord / Marantz TT-15S1/ Ortofon - Quintet Black MC / Marantz NA8005 DAC / W4S mAmp's / Synology DS 216+ll-4TB / Polkaudio LSiM703