How Important is Imaging to You?
Comments
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SDA fixes whatIn real life there is no such thing as Stereo. It was a contrived way to make music sound more realistic. SDA's are a closer approximation to real life. If you research both methods in depth, you will agree.
Neither is going to recreate or substitute for a real life event, but stereo is horribly flawed in that regard.
H9
No, wrong again. SDA is simply an effect that was marketed as being "more real", when in reality if you read the marketing stuff closer, you would know it does not approximate how real recordings are ever made. That is the glitch in their explanation of this fun effect.
The marketing makes some assumptions with reality of actual recordings and how recordings are made, and then presumes to fix a problem that in reality does not occur in hardly any recordings.
WRONG! It's not trying to fix the recordings, it's fixing the playback environment more specifically stereo. You really don't have a clue."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
SDA isn't an "effect" it's an analog way of reducing a naturally occurring aural phenomenon. has nothing to do with creating music or recording music.
Get a clue, please, before you come here and act like you know what you are talking about"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
During two-channel stereo recording, two microphones are placed in strategically chosen locations relative to the sound source, with both recording simultaneously. The two recorded channels will be similar, but each will have distinct time-of-arrival and sound-pressure-level information. During playback, the listener's brain uses those subtle differences in timing and sound level to triangulate the positions of the recorded objects. Stereo recordings often cannot be played on monaural systems without a significant loss of fidelity. Since each microphone records each wavefront at a slightly different time, the wavefronts are out of phase; as a result, constructive and destructive interference can occur if both tracks are played back on the same speaker. This phenomenon is known as phase cancellation.[/i]
Problem is you copied and pasted marketing speak about the SDA effect.
Use you own words.
First off, 95% of recordings are NOT made in the way they describe, with 2 microphones...etc.
They are made with multiple mono signals that are mixed together and the final position in the sound stage is determined by the person doing the mixing, The imaging and sound stage are all done mostly electronically by using level panning, and phase adjustments in the mixing phase.
The marketing stuff you copied does not represent reality. recordings are NOT made that way for the Nth time.
No one dares to question this though, or does not understand how recordings have been made since the 1960s. -
Somebody say something about whiskey?
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You're changing the subject.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
There was no marketing speak posted in any of my posts...........wrong again."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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Do places master or mix on headphones? Probably. Which is essentially what SDAs try to do more or less.
No they do not.
They do assure that it will still sound okay ON headphones though.
Speakers are used. Non SDA speakers...lol -
The recording process is more involved, I understand that. I posted what I posted as a simplified, general overview of stereo. Doesn't matter if it's 4 mics or 24 mics, the end result is still stereo and it's still flawed compared to the real event.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
The recording process is more involved, I understand that. I posted what I posted as a simplified, general overview of stereo. Doesn't matter if it's 4 mics or 24 mics, the end result is still stereo and it's still flawed compared to the real event.
H9
lets please let it go at that. Not feeling well today, but you have made some great points!
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Anything is going to be flawed to the real event, too many things along the way of recording and playback color the sound. Isn't that obvious to most here ? The best we can hope for is to put together systems that play to our personal preferences and be done.
The original question was about imaging, if you care about it, seek it out. If not, sit back and enjoy too. Not worth fighting about guys....and gals.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Not fighting............Dad, just having an intense conversation
. Obviously we are all passionate about audio or we wouldn't care to vigorously interact about aspects of the hobby. And written words on a board like this are easily misinterpreted, misconstrued, misread, missing detailed information that would most likely have been conveyed in a face to face conversation.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
*takes another shot*
K_M, I do have a question for you. It's a simple one and I am not being controversial here. My question is this - Have you ever heard an SDA speaker properly set up with a dent recording(s)? Yes or no will suffice.
*hiccup*
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Decent, not dent.....whiskey is apparently working.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
*takes another shot*
K_M, I do have a question for you. It's a simple one and I am not being controversial here. My question is this - Have you ever heard an SDA speaker properly set up with a dent recording(s)? Yes or no will suffice.
*hiccup*
Tom
Well, glad you are enjoying your Whiskey!! but if you drank less you might see my sig line, showing the names of 2 SDA speakers. I
I have of course listened to them and yes set up properly. I like them a lot. I am not bashing them.
I simply see them as a different way of doing things, not necessarily more realistic is all.
I get that criticizing or discussing aspects one finds less than ideal can often come off as bashing something. But that is not so in my case. I have stated several times, I really like them on some recordings. On other recordings not so much.
But I feel that way about everything, nothing is perfect.
When one believes something is perfect, they often become defensive of it. I find them great speakers in some regards, but not ideal in all, is all! -
Yes
(oops wrong guy) -
I blame @Nightfall
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Trolling complete, time for me to move on.
Seriously though I appreciate the insight so far. Most people here care about it, a small percentage only care about tone or listen as background music while doing other things and not really paying attention.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
I like to listen with my Eyes closed so Imaging doesn't mean much to me!2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
sorry stupid joke been in a weird mood today. 2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
I thought so but I wasn't sure.
afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
The recording process is more involved, I understand that. I posted what I posted as a simplified, general overview of stereo. Doesn't matter if it's 4 mics or 24 mics, the end result is still stereo and it's still flawed compared to the real event.
H9
Which "real event" are you referring? A performer/performers playing acoustic instruments, or, instruments that have been microphoned and played through mains? -
Somebody say something about whiskey?
Col. Taylor Barrel Proof, George T. Stagg Barrel Proof...Need I say more? -
*slams down shot glass*
Now there ya' go gettin' all "Technical" and stuff kharp1. What'z up wid'dat?
BTW, one day I would like to ask you about your observations between your 2 main system speakers. Okay, maybe I just did. PM if you care to discuss. I'm interested in your real world experience ( I have heard many a TA but not one Usher to date).
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I like Woodford Reserve, triple distilled Kentucky bourbon. Realllllll smooth.
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or in someone's head
Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work -
Can't begin to tell you how many times I've put a major dent in the bourbon bottle and then put a dent in my head...or some other body part. -
In honor of the anniversary of "Cowboy Neal" Cassady's birthday, I am listening to the Grateful Dead's early '80s live acoustic album Reckoning tonight -- on the (on loan) Polk Forum Special/Nelson Pass "Amp Camp Amp" driving a borrowed pair of 1960s vintage KLH Fives (there's a pattern developing here, isn't there?).
This is a superbly recorded album -- and the combination of amp, loudspeakers and recording is insanely good sounding.
... and yes, I am posting this in the imaging thread for a reason. Of course, this is a live "multiple-track mono mixed to stereo" recording -- but it is an exceptionally good one, and the Fives do it justice far beyond my expectations.
Further details as events warrant.
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@mhardy6647 I want to hear your version of insanely good. Can I buy this somewhere or can you copy it? I don't even like the Dead I just want to hear.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
You can buy it -- it's just the Rhino remastered CD (the LP rekkid sounds very good as well). I am sure there are halfway decent sounding versions even on Youtube -- maybe on archive.net too, for all I know.
Now, finding a pair of KLH 5s... you might have to hunt around a little bit
I am still listening. I am still smiling.
https://www.amazon.com/Reckoning-GRATEFUL-DEAD/dp/B000EOTFEE
Even a Dead hater might like this album -- it is acoustic and intimate. More Americana than -- Dead. Well, OK, the Dead and Americana were sometimes synonymous. This was one of those times.
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