OT - automobile performance products

Steve@3dai

You can resurface slotted rotors. I don't know about drilled though. It's just that Napa can't do it, you have to take it to some kind of speed shop.

Alcon makes some mean setups, they do the Prodrive kit for the Subarus, and they are awesome. At the same time, Brembo does the kit on the new Subaru WRX STi and that thing stops like an animal. Of course, it dusts it's wheels in like 2 days, hahaha.

Good set of pads and stainless steel brakelines will be fine for hard street/autocross use. If you plan on taking your Saab to the track, then I would look into a big brake kit. Make sure it's DESIGNED for you car, because of brake bias and such.

Subaru WRC team uses Pirelli, that doesn't mean I'd use their tires. Michelin makes some awesome tires, but for a price.

The Yokohama AVS Sports are really freaking good tires as well, great rain performance and sticks like glue in the dry.

Sami

Originally posted by neomagus00
why wouldn't the calipers function well before warm-up? i understand that this is true for race pads, but i was not aware that it was true for calipers as well.

But what would happen with race calibers and OEM pads?

Originally posted by neomagus00
since you are going to be deactivating the abs (i don't know why you would do this, but it's your car) the issue of tire traction does not enter the argument.

Several reasons:

1) ABS isn't necessarily the best option on a track and you also might want to lock the wheels at times

2) less complicated system, making ABS work with aftermarket calibers might be a PITA

3) lots of weight saved

I live in Texas so extreme weather isn't a problem and this car isn't a daily driver so ABS isn't a big deal. Besides it's an AWD (but still getting traction under hard acceleration is a huge problem, I guess it comes hand in hand with all that horsepower ).

exalted512

sami,
what kind of car do you have and what type have of performance upgrades have you done?
in your opinion, what do you think provided you the most performance for the dollar?
thanks
-Cody

Sami

I have a 1992 Nissan Skyline GT-R. If you have followed Group A racing in its heyday, you might be familiar with the car. Or N1 racing.

Engine is still stock (internals) but with some bolt-ons that have about doubled the stock 320hp. Goal for road racing use is about 550(a)whp. The most gain for the dollar you get by just unrestricting the airflow as the car came pretty detuned from factory. Simply raising boost and improving airflow will get the car to around 400hp. Aftermarket turbos, cams, exhaust, intakes, standalone engine management, it's a long list of mods but those are the major ones. But I would say adjustable coilovers probably is the best performance upgrade for the dollar.

exalted512

sounds pretty sweet
do you have pics or a cardomain site?
-Cody

Sami

I have pics and videos up at http://sami.kallio.com

Steve@3dai

I wouldn't consider cams a "bolt on"

Sami

Originally posted by Steve@3dai
I wouldn't consider cams a "bolt on"

Well, still a minor mod...

When we get to the engine internals next year, that's when I consider it to be a modified engine. Probably will only go with a slightly larger bore (~2.7l) and forged pistons, don't really need mega power from the engine so I should be safe even with what I have now.

Steve@3dai

Who's going to be doing the work up there? CTC joined with Wasabi, and there is Alamo Motorsports.

I use FIS personally, but that's just because they are mostly a scooby shop. Plus, they have a AWD dyno

neomagus00

Originally posted by Sami
But what would happen with race calibers and OEM pads?

i dunno...

Originally posted by Sami
1) ABS isn't necessarily the best option on a track and you also might want to lock the wheels at times
2) less complicated system, making ABS work with aftermarket calibers might be a PITA

3) lots of weight saved

i didn't think about track use, that makes sense

Originally posted by Sami
I live in Texas...

damn texans...

suspension - u said this was a good upgrade for the dollar; how do u feel about eibach?

anyone into autocross? if so, how do i go about getting involved?

Sami

Originally posted by Steve@3dai
Who's going to be doing the work up there? CTC joined with Wasabi, and there is Alamo Motorsports.

No more CTC for me and Alamo doesn't have a good rep. There is a race shop that normally doesn't do street cars that I'm talking with.

Systems

Originally posted by neomagus00
i dunno...

Those calibers would chew up the OEM pads almost instantly, leaving you with two metal surfaces against each other. That's a situation where you would need to be replacing the discs as well...

Originally posted by neomagus00
damn texans...

Oh please, do not call me a Texan, I only live here. I'm a Finn.

Originally posted by neomagus00
suspension - u said this was a good upgrade for the dollar; how do u feel about eibach?

I know a lot of Toyo guys use them for their Supras but I have no opinion one way or another about them. For SAAB I would first look at Bilstein coilovers and see what the other SAAB owners think about them. I think Tein makes some for SAAB as well. It all depends on how much you want to spend and how hardcore you want to get. Good suspension setup isn't very comfortable for daily use although I'm starting to dislike my A4 more and more. Suspension feels way too soft after driving the GT-R.

Having a suspension and steering that gives you a lot of feedback of the track surface and what is happening there, is vital. When the surface is great, it makes driving very enjoyable. When the surface is bad, it makes things unconfortable. Track = great time. Bad streets with potholes and speed bumbs = places you start to avoid. Also majority of the Texas roads are horrible, made with concrete blocks instead of smooth asphalt, it's like riding in a train, cloonk --- cloonk --- cloonk.

It's a tradeoff and on a street car, especially daily driven, you are probably going to make compromises. You might not need, or even want, the top of the line race suspension parts but go with the softer, more comfortable setup. You will suffer in track performance but it is more liveable, cheaper and in some real life situation even better performing.

Originally posted by neomagus00
anyone into autocross? if so, how do i go about getting involved?

While the 9-5 isn't the best possible autocross car (if you want to be competitive), it still is a lot of fun. I personally don't go to ones as the GT-R needs a lot of room to strecth its legs, autox is the playground for tiny cars and shifter carts. What they lose in power they gain in lightness. I hardly ever get out of second gear on those tracks, GT-R was made for high speed tracks. A few private sessions are in the schedule to tune the car however, perfect for that. For organized autocross events find the local SCCA club and go to their events:

http://www.scca.org (go to "Solo")

Sami

Oh, the above is my post in case you're wondering, forgot to sign in before I wrote it.

exalted512

Originally posted by Sami
Oh please, do not call me a Texan, I only live here.

if youre not proud to be a Texan, we dont want your here anyway:D
-Cody

Sami

Originally posted by exalted512
if youre not proud to be a Texan, we dont want your here anyway:D
-Cody

The thing is that I am not a Texan. If you were living in Europe it wouldn't make you European.

neomagus00

Originally posted by Sami
Oh please, do not call me a Texan, I only live here. I'm a Finn.

ok, you're cleared now

why would the race calipers cook oem pads more quickly, assuming the same rates of braking etc.?

hmm... neither Tein nor Bilstein carries Saab stuff. comfort isn't so important - as long as i can still feel my butt after half an hour, i'm good.

sami, what are the most beneficial (highest gain-to-price ratio) upgrades to airflow? i'm assuming air filter first, but from there on in i'm clueless.

and thanx for the autox info; actually, my local chapter/division thing has been cancelled for this year, due to a lack of proper leadership and a loss of pavement . i'll look around for another nearby division tho.

Sami

Originally posted by neomagus00
why would the race calipers cook oem pads more quickly, assuming the same rates of braking etc.?

When you would be using those calibers to their maximum, it would only take one or two stops until the OEM pads would be gone. Like making tires out of eraser rubber.

Originally posted by neomagus00
sami, what are the most beneficial (highest gain-to-price ratio) upgrades to airflow? i'm assuming air filter first, but from there on in i'm clueless.

It depends on the car. My car was so restricted from the factory to meet the Japanese "gentleman agreement" that simply opening the exhaust flow provided huge gains (downpipe, exhaust). With the stock settings you probably won't see that big gains in todays cars, it all depends on what else you do to the engine. But like I said, it depends on the car, some have more room to improve than others.

neomagus00

Originally posted by Sami
When you would be using those calibers to their maximum, it would only take one or two stops until the OEM pads would be gone. Like making tires out of eraser rubber.

hmm... yes, that makes sense. eraser rubber is roughly the consistency of soft racing tires though, no?

Originally posted by Sami
My car was so restricted from the factory to meet the Japanese "gentleman agreement" that simply opening the exhaust flow provided huge gains (downpipe, exhaust).

What is the Japanese 'gentleman agreement'?

and you mentioned turbo boost - how does one go about raising this? typically, that is, i realize it may be different on different vehicles.

air filter - effective upgrade? if so, urethane foam/sponge or multilayer (k&n style)? brand rec's? style of intake rec's?

Sami

Originally posted by neomagus00
What is the Japanese 'gentleman agreement'?

To avoid hp wars, they agreed to not make anything with over 280ps. In reality many do but they still advertise 280ps.

Originally posted by neomagus00
and you mentioned turbo boost - how does one go about raising this? typically, that is, i realize it may be different on different vehicles.

Boost controller, aftermarket ECU. You might also want to look into standalone engine management systems (replacement for ECU) which will become necessary if you want to get considerably more power out of the engine. This will let you program your engine functions, most importantly fuel delivery. Once you get more airflow into the engine, you will have to increase fuel injection as well. Tuning becomes very important as you don't want to run neither too lean (too much oxygen compared to fuel) nor too rich (too much fuel compared to oxygen). Both have their disadvantages but running too lean is way more dangerous.

Originally posted by neomagus00
air filter - effective upgrade? if so, urethane foam/sponge or multilayer (k&n style)? brand rec's? style of intake rec's?

Usually it is very cost effective. What brand, again that is best answered by the SAAB guys. What you might want to do is find a place that lets you dyno for cheap. Take it there after each mod and see how much extra power you're getting, if any. Usually with turbo cars exhaust modifications are also a source for relatively cheap power.

neomagus00

how much is a typical dyno? i was under the impression that they didn't come cheap.

you said 280ps... what is ps?

exhaust - those really obnoxious exhaust things, do they actually do anything? please say no, i do not want one of those on my car, but if it gives me power i might have to. when you say exhaust mods, what precisely do you mean? like which parts?

Sami

Originally posted by neomagus00
how much is a typical dyno? i was under the impression that they didn't come cheap.

You can find places that have "public days" and will let you do a run or two for relatively cheap, $20-50.

Originally posted by neomagus00
you said 280ps... what is ps?

PS = Pferdest

neomagus00

are these pipes something i could make myself? or would i have to buy something premade? i am fairly skilled in typical DIY stuff, and i am willing to learn to do this.

my turbo is quite small, so there's very little lag, but a relatively small boost. in what way does changing the ecu settings alter the effectiveness of the turbo? ie how exactly would changing some of those settings help?

lastly, the obnoxious exhaust things to which i was referring are the mufflers that make a car sound like an angry lawnmower on steroids - are the noisemaker ones performance-oriented, as in do they actually help? i apologize for any confusion.

Sami

Originally posted by neomagus00
are these pipes something i could make myself? or would i have to buy something premade? i am fairly skilled in typical DIY stuff, and i am willing to learn to do this.

If you have a welding machine then you can do it yourself. It would, of course, be beneficial if you had been educated in hydraulics.

Originally posted by neomagus00
my turbo is quite small, so there's very little lag, but a relatively small boost. in what way does changing the ecu settings alter the effectiveness of the turbo? ie how exactly would changing some of those settings help?

The way your ECU is, you can't change a thing. You would have to buy a pre-programmed ECU (can't change that one either unless you have a prommer) or standalone.

ECU for turbo cars, the main source for power is increasing the boost (and matching the fuel flow). For NA cars they do very little by just increasing the fuel injection.

Originally posted by neomagus00
lastly, the obnoxious exhaust things to which i was referring are the mufflers that make a car sound like an angry lawnmower on steroids - are the noisemaker ones performance-oriented, as in do they actually help? i apologize for any confusion.

Ok, I see what you mean. Sound to some is THE purpose. For performance, it depends. Some exhausts are louder than others and you would definately be increasing the volume over the stock exhaust...

My car is extremly loud, for a small 6 cylinder. I can do what the bikers do, set off car alarms. LOL. Partly because of exhaust mods but also because of other engine mods (cams in particular). Some say nothing can beat the low rumble of a V8 but they probably haven't heard a turboed I-6 going past 8000rpms. Still nothing compared to the sound a top F1 engine makes revving at almost 20krpm.

neomagus00

Originally posted by Sami
If you have a welding machine then you can do it yourself. It would, of course, be beneficial if you had been educated in hydraulics.

actually, i do know a bit about it and can readily learn more... what parts specifically would i be able to replace on my own? the pipe from engine->muffler, for example?

ECU for turbo cars, the main source for power is increasing the boost (and matching the fuel flow).

in precisely what way is the boost increased? i'm not understanding how the ecu says 'hey, give me more pressure', cause isn't it just based upon rpms (and temp)?

Still nothing compared to the sound a top F1 engine makes revving at almost 20krpm.

mmm... f1... i may be going to france this summer to see a race there, which would be absolutely amazing... i've seen the indy race the past couple years, and it was awesome. i even got to drive a lap on the track beforehand (they only let you go 35 tho, which was kinda boring).

earlier, you mentioned cams. is this a custom thing, or are there companies that make them? either way, how much did you pay (not looking into this now, but it's good to know).

actually, on the DIY note, is there anything at all that I personally can do to increase performance? assume fair access to equipment and a pretty good diy knowledge. the exhaust pipe has been mentioned, anything else?

Sami

Originally posted by neomagus00
actually, i do know a bit about it and can readily learn more... what parts specifically would i be able to replace on my own? the pipe from engine->muffler, for example?

From the turbos to exhaust (pre- and downpipes) and the rest of exhaust piping.

Originally posted by neomagus00
in precisely what way is the boost increased? i'm not understanding how the ecu says 'hey, give me more pressure', cause isn't it just based upon rpms (and temp)?

You control boost by controlling the wastegate on the turbo. If you know hydraulics, you know what a wastevalve is. Turbo wastegates operate a little differently though, they open up periodically and by changing the duration they are open (cycle), you can control boost.

Lets say your turbos can get up to 1bar of boost efficiently. You only want to use 0.5bar so you will let the excess air flow out through the wastegate and maintain 0.5bar pressure.

Originally posted by neomagus00
earlier, you mentioned cams. is this a custom thing, or are there companies that make them? either way, how much did you pay (not looking into this now, but it's good to know).

I paid $500 each for two cams (DOHC engine) from HKS. Not sure if any company makes them for 9-5.

Originally posted by neomagus00
actually, on the DIY note, is there anything at all that I personally can do to increase performance? assume fair access to equipment and a pretty good diy knowledge. the exhaust pipe has been mentioned, anything else?

There's a lot you could do. A boost controller is fairly easy to make. I would suggest you take a look at what you want to do with the engine, study how it works and then see what you could do yourself. I'd still buy most of the stuff unless they are ridiculously expensive or not available at all. You have to remember that you're not only paying for the manufacturing of the parts but for R&D that goes into them.

Cams, if you have a CNC machine, know the specs and have access to right type of material, nothing is stopping you from making them yourself. Or design your own custom cams. You just would be getting into area where it is very important you know what you are doing. If you're not, I wouldn't experiment with an expensive engine.