OT - automobile performance products

neomagus00

okay, i'm beginning to move beyond audio and into modifications on my car. i am having extreme difficulty getting a solid consensus on the best of the best out there. so, i'm gonna throw out some brand names that i've heard to be the best, and feel free to comment / add / subtract / flip-out-on-me at will. keep in mind that performance is ultimate, price not particularly a consideration. and i have an import sport compact/tuner (2000 saab 9-3 convertible turbo)

wheels/rims:
American Racing
BBS
Enkei
Fiske
Motegi
OZ Racing

tires:
BFGoodrich (i have g-force t/a kd's now)
Kumho
Pirelli
Toyo
Yokohama

airflow-related:
BMC
Borla
Injen
K&N

brakes:
Akebono
Baer
Brembo
EBC
Goodridge
Hawk
Powerslot
Satisfied
Scandinavian
SSBS

suspension:
Eibach
H&R
Koni

dealers:
The Tire Rack

exalted512

im not big into that stuff, but i can tell you what i like from what youve picked
why not go momo for the rims?
american racing
toyo
k&n
baer or brembo
no idea on suspension
im sure jstas can you help you out like 10x more than i could about this
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

wheels -- american racing / motegi / momo / konig

tires -- bf goodrich / goodyear eagle 1 / firestone firehawk

exhaust -- borla, borla, borla, borla, and borla -- if you're on a budget, pacesetter or any of the summitracing house made **** will work.

air intake -- k&n, airforce

brakes -- i'm kind of a **** on that -- i just as well prefer raysbestos or wagner stuff as it has a good solid warranty on it and is easy to get when i need it.

suspension -- rough country, skyjacker, fabtech (my personal favorite)

stores -- www.summitracing.com / www.jeggs.com

exalted512

Originally posted by PoweredByDodge
exhaust -- borla, borla, borla, borla, and borla

what about flowmasters?
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

borla...


100% heavy gauge stainless steel, guaranteed for life, and i've never heard a more rich tone in my existence --- besides, they have no problem doing "no chamber" mufflers that are simply glass/ceramic noise insulated but offer virtually no backpressure resistance (over what the length of the pipe itself would provide).


borla.... borla... borla... borla... borla....

exalted512

i heard some 40 series flowmasters on a 6L chevy 2500hd
it was one of the most beautiful sounds ive ever heard...
and i know a guy that has 40s on his mustang...along with a few other mods...and it IS the best exhaust ive ever heard in my life...but ill check out borla
-Cody

AustinKP

Finally, a topic that I know a little more about! I'm not sure all these manufacturers make stuff for imports, but most do. How deep into the performance parts are you willing to go? Are you just looking for bolt-ons, or are you going to be messing with the internals as well?

Wheels: BBS, Enkei, OZ Racing, MOMO

Brakes: Brembo, Baer

Suspension: Eibach, H&R

CAI: Injen, MAC

Air filter: K&N

Exhaust: Borla, Flowmaster

Underdrive pulleys: Steeda

N2O: NOS, Nitrous Express

Turbo: HK

Ignition: MSD

Jstas

Originally posted by neomagus00
okay, i'm beginning to move beyond audio and into modifications on my car. i am having extreme difficulty getting a solid consensus on the best of the best out there. so, i'm gonna throw out some brand names that i've heard to be the best, and feel free to comment / add / subtract / flip-out-on-me at will. keep in mind that performance is ultimate, price not particularly a consideration. and i have an import sport compact/tuner (2000 saab 9-3 convertible turbo)

How about we do this.

Instead of naming different companies that make parts for cars and basically getting you no where at all, how about you tell us what your goals are, what your budget is and we'll go and see what you can do to reach those goals.

The basic rule is speed is directly equivalent to the amount of cubic dollars you are spending. You want to go fast you gotta spend money.

exalted512

dude...just get "horsepower" stickers
put a fat HONDA sticker on your hood...thatll give you like 15 extra horsepower...
cost you like $15
-Cody

neomagus00

cody - i'll do that; everyone else seems to think it works...

jstas - true... thus, i plan to shoot for those companies that produce the best or nearly the best, as follows: for the absolute prime product, one will pay a ridiculous amount of money. for the next step down, but still better than the vast majority, one will pay significantly less. is is this second rung that i'm shooting for - like adire/usamps that i'm looking at. price is not a gargantuan issue, it just cant be overwhelming.

austin - i'm going to begin with the small stuff - air filter and cheap bolt-on stuff like that. if i like doing it and all that rot, i'll move in deeper - suspension, wheels, and the like. if all goes well there, then i'll do things like upgrade the turbo and seals, and other stuff that i've never thought of. like being in the mob - start small, maybe end up ruling the world.

oh, and two general notes - 1) im going to make everything subtle - ie it wont be immediately apparent from the outside until i drop the hammer. and 2) i absolutely detest - like no other, you have no idea how much this irks me - those loud exhausts with no performance benefit. if i'm not getting more HP out of it, i dont want my car sounding like an angry lawn mower on steroids. stoned mower is acceptable(barely) if im getting a performance benefit, tho.

Jstas

The problem here is that you are looking for a company with a "quality" reputation and you are only looking at big names. Those big name companies do not support little niche imports like a Saab 9-3. You can get parts galore from Summit Racing for a Dodge, Chevy or Ford but call them up and ask them for some parts for a Saab 9-3 and they are going to laugh at you.

Sorry to burst your bubble here but there are no hop up parts from any of those companies that you listed aside from wheels/tires and springs. You might be able to get brakes from one of the companies you listed but I doubt that they will have anything that is going to vastly improve the stopping performance over stock.

What you need to do is find a Saab forum/club online where there are people and a community with vehicles just like yours. Ask questions about what people have done and where you can get parts. Most times, if you join thier club, vendors offer club member discounts.

What I would do first is look into researching your car. Find out what model line you have and what other model lines are in the Saab 9-3 model range. (i.e.: If you had a Ford F-150 XL 2WD and wanted to increase performance, doing research would show you that there are higher end models like a Ford F-150 Lariat XLT with larger brakes and a lower final drive ratio that could improve performance and is literally a bolt in part that can be had for relativly cheap). Find cars in junkyards that have been wrecked but are a higher end model than yours and snag the brakes, wheels, springs or even engine and transmission if you feel so inclined. The benefit there is two fold. Not only do you get the performance of the higher end model but you also may open yourself up for better hop up parts from manufacturers incase they cater to the higher end model vs. your model.

Just stating that you are going to buy from the best manufacturer in each category is not going to get anywhere but a rolling advertisment. Select your parts with care because they will do much more for you if they compliment each other rather than just hap hazzardly throwing parts at the car and slapping any old thing on there.

neomagus00

fair enough... and don't worry, there was no bubble to begin with . i have indeed found that few of the aforementioned companies offer saab-specific items; for this i was prepared.

like i said, im not yet into full-on customization, so i won't get into parts modifications (such as buying a 'close-enough' part and then modifying it to work for me). since saab only has a couple different lines of vehicles, and they're all separate (ie the 9-3 stands alone, as does the 9-5, etc.). i'll start with model-specific stuff like an eibach kit, k&n, stuff like that, and see where it goes from there.

however, im not sure i understand what you mean about synergy - at this point anyway. i realize that different engine components must be chosen to be a coherent whole, as must suspension, but i dont see how the choice of wheels and exhaust must coincide - or did i read this wrong?

Jstas

You are taking it too far.

Although I have seen problems where a custom/aftermarket exhaust can interefere with custom/aftermarket wheels.

A good example is buying a K&N filter with an AEM inatke tube and a bigger throttle body but keeping the stock mass air sensor.

Or stuffing a **** cannon with a 6 inch muller on the end of a 2 inch tailpipe.

There is no benefit and the parts are so mismatched that they can end up hurting you rather than helping you.

You have fallen into the macho trap. The biggest is not always the best. You can see better performance gains from a bunch of smaller, less expensive parts from smaller, unknown companies and make more power or handle better than if you went with the biggest, baddest and best parts from the major manufacturers.

The benefit to buying from a niche tuner for Saabs is that they have parts that are tuned to get the best possible performance out of your car with as few compromises as possible. Buying an Sven's High Flow Air Filter for Saab 9-3 vs K&N can make a huge difference because the K&N is tuned to appease the masses and offer the best overal compromise of performance vs. economy. Sven's filter on the other hand is tailored directly to fit the Saab 9-3. It may need to have some parts removed to fit but it will be a custom piece that fits right and works well with what you have rather than just a stock replacement sized filter from K&N. It's in the details. K&N won't get as detailed as Sven will because K&N is marketing to a 250 million customer market base where as Sven only needs to convince the Saab 9-3 owners that his stuff is the best. So Sven optimizes it for the Saab 9-3 and ends up putting out an overall better part than K&N because he paid more attention to the details than K&N.

It's not a bad thing about K&N and they really do help. But if you seriously want to up performance, go look for those Svens out there because they are going to be more expensive but give you a hell of alot more bang for the buck.

Now, the benefit to going to the clubs/forums for teh Saab 9-3 owners is that you get detailed experience and expertise behind the advice. They know the cars inside and out and can help you with interchangability and "free mods" that will improve performance but cost you little to nothing to do. I know for a fact that there is seperate model lines for the Saab 9-3 and Saab 9-5. Look for a company called Viggen and see what they have. Go do teh reasearch before you start throwing money away on parts that will do little for you.

neomagus00

i have found a saab forum and im in the process of picking through the past posts. on sven - i'd never heard of the company, but from what you say, that is precisely the kind of response i was shooting for when i began the thread. clearly, things such as wheels are not going to be manufactured by anyone to be saab-specific, and that was my original intent here - to get an idea of who does things like that the best.

for more intimate parts, such as air filter, suspension, etc. i will find saab-specific applications.

thanx for your input, btw.

Jstas

I made Sven up. It was just as an example. I don't know if there is a Sven that exists like that, I just went with the Swedish theme instead of calling it Jim Bob's Saab Parts or something.

exalted512

I have a friend named Jim Bob...sad thing is...im not kidding...i have a cousin we call Bubba...haha
im a texan and proud of it:D
-Cody

neomagus00

man, you got me all eager to go check sven out... there's a bubble-burster for ya...

cody - would that have anything to do with bubba gump's shrimpin' (& oilin' - damn texans) business?

exalted512

no relation
hes a plumber:)
actually a plumbing inspector...inspects plumbers work
-Cody

Sami

Like said, look for parts that for Saab. For the universal parts, I would go with Alcon for brakes and Ohlins for suspension. They are expensive so it also comes down to how much money you want to spent.

There are many options, for some cars more than others. My car has parts from various companies. Cams, headgasket from HKS. Exhaust, intakes, standalone fuel management, boost controller from Apex'i. Wheels from Rays Engineering (Volk). Turbos from Garrett. Coilovers from Tein (hopefully soon from Ohlins). Other suspension parts from various companies, or selfmade. Oil cooler is on its way from Blitz. Currently configuring brake options, most likely will go with Alcons, if the expense gets too high I will settle for Brembo.

Most companies make parts that work well for one car but might not work that well with another. Do research and ask around, you might find someone who has tried and he can tell about the results. Otherwise it is trial and error.

Steve@3dai

Suspension, suspension, suspension. The 9-3 is an awesome car, but it's built for people that want something sporty, but isn't going to disrupt their morning Starbucks.

Here's my tips:
Sway bars - Cusco, Hotchkis (spelling), Whiteline

Hardend bushings for trailing arms, sway bars, engine mounts, tranny mounts. Give your stock parts (or aftermarket) a needed firmness and agility boost.

Stainless steel brakelines, and brake pads from Axxis or Carbotech. If you are looking into a "big brake kit", look at Stoptech, Brembo, or Wilwood.

Springs - H&R, Eibach. Unless they are specifically made for stock struts, upgrade struts as well. Beilstien (spelling), Koni, KYB AGXs.

Oh, and keep stock rims Just put badass tires on them. You'll look fairly stock, but.. not be. I like that. hahaha

Then, after you are getting the car to stick. Then go for power.

Downpipe, and chip. Intakes are finniky on turbo cars, they either make a huge difference, or hurt performance (in the case of a Subaru). Now, once you are making 230-240hp to the wheels, then you have to investigate turbo options, and intercooler options. You also have to see if your block can handle that much power!

Hope that helps, comes from experience with Subarus.

neomagus00

suspension - i recently replaced my tires with BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD's. i am now able to drive the suspension all the way to the stops in a level corner - sweet, but probably not the best for the car. eibach makes a pro-kit (dampers and coils) specifically for this car, so that will probably be the second upgrade.

the first is going to have to be new wheels - i bent one of my alloys pretty badly (since when do 8" potholes show up in the middle of the highway?? here's me, calmly changing lanes, then WHAM!... oh, ****...). on that note, how do you feel about plus-one sizings? ive heard a wide variety of opinions on this, too - some say that handling will increase at the expense of ride quality (not a big deal to me), some say that the extra weight will actually decrease performance, etc. though a bigger wheel allows bigger brakes, ive already got pretty large rotors. thoughts?

ECU - i've heard that this is actually a good entry-level upgrade. is this true?

lastly, you mentioned my block not being able to take the kind of power i'd end up with. i'm running like 198 now; what would i have to worry about specifically as i upped that number? e.g. seals, etc. - i know very little about the nitty-gritty guts of an engine.

exalted512

i bent my rim when i slid sideways into a curb...blew the tire off the rim...i hit it HARD
that sucked
i dont know too much about upgrades either...just the basics
-Cody

Steve@3dai

Plus one size is fine, but there is some added weight and it's gonna change your gearing a bit.

You might want to get some slotted rotors, stock size, just to help out if you are going to the road track or something. But stainless steel lines and pads would help out a lot.

I wouldn't worry about seals and stuff really, it's blowing a piston or rod. Read on the Saab forums for more info on that.

Subaru WRX motors can handle 400 wheel hp stock, but that's not daily driver, that's race gas.

Sami

Originally posted by neomagus00
suspension - i recently replaced my tires with BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD's.

I've got 265/35 g-Force all around on mine, excellent tire.

Originally posted by neomagus00
on that note, how do you feel about plus-one sizings? ive heard a wide variety of opinions on this, too - some say that handling will increase at the expense of ride quality (not a big deal to me), some say that the extra weight will actually decrease performance, etc.

Go for it. Wheel weight isn't an issue if you get a light quality wheel. My Volk CE28N's are 18" and weight only 17lb. You will gain in smaller tire side, it will give you much better handling and response.

Originally posted by neomagus00
ECU - i've heard that this is actually a good entry-level upgrade. is this true?

On a turbo car ECU, intakes and exhaust will give you very good gains. My car, if it was stock, would go from ~320hp to ~400hp with these simple changes. If you're planning to do more mods in the future, get a standalone to replace the ECU, this will give you the opportunity to tune the car to match the mods you have made.

Originally posted by neomagus00
lastly, you mentioned my block not being able to take the kind of power i'd end up with. i'm running like 198 now; what would i have to worry about specifically as i upped that number? e.g. seals, etc. - i know very little about the nitty-gritty guts of an engine.

That is one of the trial and error things. I don't think you should start to worry until you hit 300+ hp but that also depends on who will tune your car, how good they are. My engine is good for over 600hp without internal modifications (other than headgasket) and the block itself, there are 1600hp cars out there with the same block but bored/stroked to 2.8 liters.

Sami

Originally posted by Steve@3dai
Plus one size is fine, but there is some added weight and it's gonna change your gearing a bit.

Gearing change is minimal as long you match the tire size (profile).

Here's how you can calculate the total diameter:

tire_diameter + 2 * tire_width * profile %

For example 17" 245/45:

17in + 2 * 24.5cm * 0.45 / 2.52 cm/in = 25.8in

18" 265/35:

18in + 2 * 26.5cm * 0.35 / 2.52 cm/in = 25.4in

neomagus00

everything that's been mentioned sounds great. i'm off to spend some cash on new wheels. stock is 15, maybe ill move up into 16 or 17 if i can get a deal on tires. we shall see...

Sami

Originally posted by neomagus00
everything that's been mentioned sounds great. i'm off to spend some cash on new wheels. stock is 15, maybe ill move up into 16 or 17 if i can get a deal on tires. we shall see...

Definately get 17". Make sure you watch the wheel weight, a lot of the dealers don't have a clue since they are selling them based on looks. Also find out what offset is right for your car.

exalted512

i have a link at the house that converts metric to inches
i hate metric
-Cody

Sami

Originally posted by exalted512
i have a link at the house that converts metric to inches
i hate metric
-Cody

SI units (some call them metric) are the way to go, they are the standard and much easier than imperial units.

exalted512

i dont get metric...
265/75R16
265=width...16=rim
75....percentage?
i have no idea
and it changes with each rim
standard:
31x10.50
31 inches tall, 10.5 inches wide
it can be on a 2" rim or an 20" rim
stupid metric crap...
-Cody

Sami

Originally posted by exalted512
i dont get metric...
265/75R16
265=width...16=rim
75....percentage?
i have no idea
and it changes with each rim
standard:
31x10.50
31 inches tall, 10.5 inches wide
it can be on a 2" rim or an 20" rim
stupid metric crap...
-Cody

It's the other way around, imperial units are hopelessly outdated. Would be easier to switch to mm in wheel sizes but old habits die hard, especially when it something like wheelsize that pops up every day.

tire wall height: 265mm * 0.75 = 199mm (not realistic, that's why you have low profile tires at that size)