Tesla Model III

Viking64

Would you be able to attach baseball cards to the spokes with clothespins to make it sound cool?

mhardy6647

Viking64 wrote: »

Would you be able to attach baseball cards to the spokes with clothespins to make it sound cool?

I like your thinking.

daddyjt

The only way to move electric vehicles from a "feel good" proposition to economically and environmentally viable, is to embrace nuclear energy. In 2016, 2/3 of all electricity produced in the US came from the burning of fossil fuels.



Full article here: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

With that in mind, when you charge your EV, you are still most likely doing it on the back of fossil fuels. Wind and solar are several decades (if ever) away from being anything more than a novilty. That leaves nuclear as the only real option for a significant move away from fossil fuels at this time. Yet while the media relishes in sensationalizing every (and by every I mean all 3 in the past 30 years) serious nuclear accident, they refuse to report on modern nuclear plant technology, which has made it impossible for a reactor to "melt down" even in the total absence of coolant.

So in the interim, you can burn fossil fuels to make electricity to power your car, or you can skip the middle man and burn the fossil fuels to power your car.

mhardy6647

at this point, quite a bit of the energy here comes from -- the roof.
Soon (next few weeks) almost all of it will (except at night and in the cold/dark of winter).

An EV is a handy and potentially cost-effective way to save excess energy production from PVs (although, of course, 'buy-back' by the local utility is still attractive, as well).

Strictly an FYI/FWIW.

daddyjt

My comments were not meant to disparage your vehicle choice - I was more commenting on the fact that we need higher production rates of clean electricity to make electric cars viable. And by viable, I mean able to claim real estate in the car market without close to $10,000 government subsidies. And the only way to do that right now, is with nuclear.

lightman1

$154CAD!!

F1nut

Lasareath wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Great, another huge environmental mess to deal with and much worse than anything we have now.

Which mess are you talking about Jesse?

Start with all the nasty crap it takes to make the batteries and take your pick from there.

I like burning fossil fuels, they are the original natural energy. Burn baby burn!

lightman1

I'm in Iowa again. Dadgum windmills everywhere spinning around.
For every revolution...how many street lights will light up?

daddyjt

Lasareath wrote: »

I kinda of like Nuclear Energy, I'm just concerned with the waste.

There are tons News Stories about Wind Energy every single day.

One study stated this:

"A new study postulates that 3 million km2 of open ocean area in the windy North Atlantic could produce enough energy to satisfy the needs of the entire human species during the winter months, while it could cover the electricity needs of North America and Europe during the summer."

You can find more on this story here: https://electrek.co/2017/10/12/how-much-ocean-covered-wind-turbines-power-earth/

And Here: https://www.google.com/search?q=wind+energy+in+the+news&rlz=1C1MSNA_enUS700US700&tbm=nws&ei=AB8FWpzFPMXUmAHzyaJ4&start=20&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=974&dpr=1

Here's some more info on Wind Turbines: https://youtu.be/yaC1qgXaRvE

I think Nuclear is on its way out.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/industry-meltdown-is-era-of-nuclear-power-coming-to-an-end

daddyjt wrote: »

My comments were not meant to disparage your vehicle choice - I was more commenting on the fact that we need higher production rates of clean electricity to make electric cars viable. And by viable, I mean able to claim real estate in the car market without close to $10,000 government subsidies. And the only way to do that right now, is with nuclear.

Interesting read - so we need 3 million wind turbines in the middle of the North Atlantic. Normal cost for a wind turbine is 3-4 million $. Let's assume for a moment, the lowest estimate - 3 million each. That's NINE TRILLION DOLLARS. And it gets worse from there - the 3 million price is optimal conditions ON LAND. This study is postulating these turbines in the one-mile deep North Atlantic. ALSO, as the article points out, there is the issue of a power collection grid (in the mile-deep water). Conservatively, these turbines would be upwards of 5 million $ each. That's FIFTEEN TRILLION$... AND, there's maintenance and upkeep, which would be staggering.

As for nuclear, between sensational media coverage and overreaching government regulations, its no wonder the industry is struggling. Contrast that to the government literally throwing fistfuls of cash at anything calling itself a "renewable energy" company, and the picture gets more and more clear. Any energy source that is going to be the wave of future is going to have to stand on its own, and turn a profit.

lightman1

The logistics of a North Atlantic wind farm are mind boggling.
First: Where and to whom would this energy go to?
Second: Once that was decided. How would it get there?
Third: The MASSIVE outlay of funding, bonds, infrastructure upfitting.....would be,
as daddyjt stated, in the trillions just to figure where to plug this in to the existing grid. Not much short term pay off that the so called powers that be are willing to risk.
Which leads to boondoggle.......
Fourth: Maintenence. The North Sea is an unpredictable environment. Dead calm or a Captains last stand. The caisons alone would be an engineering marvel. Let alone the mast and pod withstanding gale force winds.
Fifth: Conductors and switchgear. Transmitting the generated power has to go under the sea, obviously. The cableing involved is another massive undertaking.
Think back to ca.1858...the first Trans Atlantic cable twixt Newfoundland and Ireland. One cable..... Now imagine thousands of these towers needing an end point and rectifier to connect to the existig grid. One tower, three conductors....times X amount of towers........
Sixth: Existing shipping lanes. Lots of import/export companies have paid rights to these lanes. Many of them centuries old. Guess who doesn't want to travel two days south just because of some silly windmill.....
I could go on about the cons far outweighing the pros....but even I must sleep on occasion.
If inspired to do so, I may jump in and say why wind energy is not the end all solution....

[Deleted User]

Read the next model will be called Y making the line S3XY. Pretty corny but when you're a gozillionaire you can get away it.

shawn474

I am all for cleaner ways to operate vehicles.....but the battery debate is real. For every article you can show that says there not that bad, I can show you one that contradicts that. There is a cost in doing business for everything and as such there are unintended consequences. The real issue with this thread is that Sal just wants to keep shoving it down everyone's throat and letting everyone know how wrong they are and how right he is. Pretty much par for the course, but fewer posts and farther between

txcoastal1

The world is moving towards clean Energy and eventually Gas, Oil and Diesel will be dead.

In a hundred years or more

Before diesel will die the market will need to produce vehicle that meet the needs of someone like me

Fuel efficient---VVVV
Power---to pull my trailers
Time efficient---can't be sitting around every 200 hundred miles

Paris Climate Agreement is a hack
Until you get countries like Mexico and China to clean up their act, why should we be holding the money bag

shawn474

Lasareath wrote: »

shawn474 wrote: »

I am all for cleaner ways to operate vehicles.....but the battery debate is real. For every article you can show that says there not that bad, I can show you one that contradicts that. There is a cost in doing business for everything and as such there are unintended consequences. The real issue with this thread is that Sal just wants to keep shoving it down everyone's throat and letting everyone know how wrong they are and how right he is. Pretty much par for the course, but fewer posts and farther between

This is New industry and it's changing every day.

I did not create this post. I'm just updating it with the latest news.

Elon Musk says the Batteries are 100% Recyclable

He's pretty smart and very rich.

Who writes these stories that you can show me?

Are they paid for by the Koch Brothers?

Did you know that they stated they will spend $20,000,000 a year on Anti-EV articles?

So before you post an Article you need to research if it's from a credible source.



But You are correct Shawn, 4.5 years ago I said all of this will happen and everybody here said I was crazy. That it'll never happen,



Now today BP & Shell Oil are installing Electric Car Charging Stations in their Gas Stations.

Tesla is the 2nd richest Car producer in the United States. GM is still larger than them by a little bit.

Every single car manufacturers have stated that they will be building Electric Cars.

Diesel is being banned all over the world.

Syria said 3 days ago it will join the Paris Climate Agreement: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-paris-climate-syria/syria-plans-to-join-paris-climate-agreement-isolating-u-s-idUKKBN1D71UZ

The world is moving towards clean Energy and eventually Gas, Oil and Diesel will be dead.

New Technology always replaces Old technology. You cannot buy 1.2TL's anymore brand new online.

Why is that?

Everybody has a PC now, Almost everyone has a Cell phone now. Was not the case 20 years ago.

Electric Cars and Renewable Energy production are disruptive technologies. One day they will be the norm,

1900 in NYC Easter parade every single "car" was Horse and Buggy and there was 1 Gas Powered Car.

in 1913 the same Parade all the cars were Gas Cars and there was only one Horse & Buggy.

That's a disruption.

And Eventually, Gas Cars will be gone. When will that be?, 2030, 2040, I'm not sure but it's coming.

Here's a Great Video:

https://youtu.be/2b3ttqYDwF0?t=19s

Sal

Sal,

I don't have the time to post like you do. So I will leave it at this.

I don't disagree with everything you say - just some of it and especially how you convey it. And I can assure you I have "credible" (or as credible as they can be) sources and references. You, nor I, have NO IDEA how these "independent" articles or companies profit off of their rhetoric. Its much like politics in that way......

I am not saying EV technology is bad either. My wife has a hybrid Rav4. She insisted thinking it was more efficient, clean, etc - and in a lot of ways I can't argue with that. But there ARE known issues with batteries, some of the technology and other things that do concern me (and a lot of others).

Should I listen to Elon Musk because he is smart and rich? Please. man. He has ulterior motives and a financial wherewithall to back up his claims.......i choose to process what he says and try to the best of my ability research whatever I can find out about his claims.

Is gasoline an issue? Yes, that's inarguable. But convenience and accessibility matters to many people. Some of our livelihoods are dependent on technology that is readily available and affordable.......gas happens to be the medium at this time that affords us those abilities. EV's do not. Range, cost, and many other factors prohibit the rest of us from doing so.

Will gas eventually become obsolete? I believe it will........but it won't be in my lifetime. Until then, I will continue to do other things in my life that reduce our carbon footprint to the best of my ability.


PS- your links to commercials and ads supporting your claim look like the afternoon television personal injury lawyers who deal with catheter infection class action lawsuits.......

tonyb

It's a niche market, always will be too, just like wind power. Diesel isn't going anywhere either....the trucking business would be kaput, and we move a lot of stuff by trucks.

I have noticed some gas stations have put in charging stations like Sal said. However, I have yet to see one car....one, using them. Others have ripped them out for lack of use. Funny thing is, the car manufacturers sell mostly what ? SUV'S and TRUCKS are out selling conventional cars. Go look in a grocery store parking lot on the weekends, Costco....it's an SUV and mini van show.

The demand for electric isn't there, take away the subsidies and it would probably die on it's own. That's the only way electric/solar/wind keep going, is by us subsidizing it. Sure, city dwellers could benefit from it but that's about the extent of it. Can you imagine all those folks evacuating Texas and Florida recently and their juice is running low on those packed expressways. Then what ? Not like you can pull over and hop down the embankment with a gas can in hand for a station under the bridge.

F1nut

Lasareath wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Lasareath wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Great, another huge environmental mess to deal with and much worse than anything we have now.

Which mess are you talking about Jesse?

Start with all the nasty crap it takes to make the batteries and take your pick from there.

I like burning fossil fuels, they are the original natural energy. Burn baby burn!

Sorry, Jesse but somebody is lying to you and you're believing it. I don't blame you, their story seems convincing.

If you want the truth you should skim this article.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/5/6/1524012/-Someone-is-lying-about-electric-cars-on-the-internet

There's more cobalt than lithium in batteries and where does cobalt come from? The answer, mines. Is cobalt toxic? Higher levels are.

mrbiron

I seeth the fusty EV propaganda traineth hast pulled unto thee Polk Station f'r anoth'r wend 'round.
what art thee s'rving on this trippeth? Chicken 'r beef?

tonyb

F1nut wrote: »

Lasareath wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Lasareath wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Great, another huge environmental mess to deal with and much worse than anything we have now.

Which mess are you talking about Jesse?

Start with all the nasty crap it takes to make the batteries and take your pick from there.

I like burning fossil fuels, they are the original natural energy. Burn baby burn!

Sorry, Jesse but somebody is lying to you and you're believing it. I don't blame you, their story seems convincing.

If you want the truth you should skim this article.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/5/6/1524012/-Someone-is-lying-about-electric-cars-on-the-internet

There's more cobalt than lithium in batteries and where does cobalt come from? The answer, mines. Is cobalt toxic? Higher levels are.

Mines ? You mean with all that diesel fired equipment to get the cobalt ? Can you imagine construction equipment working on batteries ? LOL

The irony is just off the charts.

Viking64

tonyb wrote: »

Mines ? You mean with all that diesel fired equipment to get the cobalt ?

It's even worse than that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/batteries/congo-cobalt-mining-for-lithium-ion-battery/

motorhead43026

The world will be a better place once my generation dies off. Hang in there world, won't be long.

Viking64

^^^^ Quote fail. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

mrbiron

Congo Cobalt?!
I thinkbi saw that movie. Those apes are really mean

charley95

All I can say is WOW!

[Deleted User]

Lasareath, this is one of the most well thought and articulate posts I have ever seen. Did you copy the entire post?
Seriously though, great reading material!

charley95

I know a guy that has a 76 Cadillac with a 455 4 barrel in it if that means anything. Last I checked with him he was getting about 3 gallons to the mile.

charley95

charley95 wrote: »

I know a guy that has a 76 Cadillac with a 455 4 barrel in it if that means anything. Last I checked with him he was getting about 3 gallons to the mile.

It's a good thing I was at the right place at the right time. I saw him at the Jiffy Lube the other day. There was a group of millennials lynching him with their cell phones chanting eco-terrorist. The poor guy just can't get a break! :}

tonyb

Always comes back to global warming doesn't it. LOL

daddyjt

I have to chuckle every time I hear Elon Musk referred to as a "genius" and a "visionary"... half of his billions came straight out of OUR collective pocket as taxpayers - so yea, I guess he is pretty smart. At least smart enough to get the government to fund his ideas and whims.

Again, I don't begrudge anyone choosing to purchase an EV - I just don't think the taxpayers should be forced to cough up an 10K + "subsidy" for you to do so... the fact is, without the kickback (subsidy), EV sales would be almost non-existent.

txcoastal1

Resale on the EV's sux too

Viking64

And they look like poupe.