Tesla Model III

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  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 4,802
    Yay for forcing political agendas under the thinly veiled auspices of saving the planet. Say all you want Sal, but you have done NOTHING on this forum but agenda cram for quite a long time now. Way to contribute. #sarcasm #evisafaslereality #delusionalmanstrikesagain
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

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  • Be careful when citing articles just because the circumstances suit your current needs. Every vehicle has the potential to place its occupants in danger. Tesla is no different in this regard. Catastrophic failure of a battery pack or its associated wiring is always a possibility. How many Mercedes Benz vehicles have been involved in accidents where no fire occured? Tesla's ultimate fantasy would be to have the safety record Mercedes has built over their history.

    How about now you post the articles covering electric vehicles that have caught fire after crashes. There have been three EV fires that have occured as a result of crash testing and those are just the ones I know about.

    I admire your passion Sal and think non gas/diesel powerd cars can be a good thing for those who can fit them into their daily lives but to pretend they are inherently safer or have zero carbon foot print because of the lack of fossil fuels for propulsion is naive.

  • mrbigbluelightmrbigbluelight Posts: 7,684

    Late for work ? I don't think so, not driving this baby !



    4b99d22fa0e893aab29cd01556fffb0b454961cd71a0530349f9cb61c83aa68a_1.jpg








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  • littlewoodboatslittlewoodboats Posts: 791
    edited May 2016
    lightman1 wrote: »
    lyqjhtw0ku7x.gif

    Instigator. :D

    I am all for a good debate but reality needs to come into play at some point.

    For all we know the Mercedes caught fire as the direct result of an electrical discharge from the Tesla. It is also nice to see they can be jumped into a field and rolled over multiple times. If they could now manage to keep it from catching fire after hitting road debris they might be onto something.

    I can get just as silly as you can Sal.

    Most every technology is a step to the next evolution and battery powered cars are no exception. Something along the lines of the super capacitors being developed for motorsport would be preferred to a lithium chemistry battery in every way.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 19,544
    edited May 2016
    EVFrisbee wrote: »
    I'm sure you will argue with me on this Sal and I'm not interested in that, but that is my perspective.

    Not at all, Everyone has their own opinion and that's the way it should be.

    All I care about is how fast I can get into my Model 3.

    Sal



    Now that you have lost all the weight Sal, getting your body in wont be too hard, but your big head will be a challenge.
    Post edited by nooshinjohn on
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    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 19,544
    edited May 2016

    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    Yay for forcing political agendas under the thinly veiled auspices of saving the planet. Say all you want Sal, but you have done NOTHING on this forum but agenda cram for quite a long time now. Way to contribute. #sarcasm #evisafaslereality #delusionalmanstrikesagain

    [/quote]
    Can't take the heat Sal? Every time you post something, it has an agenda attached to it, and people are tired of it. If you ever go back to being the Sal we actually liked instead of the one that has become so full of himself that he thinks little of what anyone else has to say, then you might just find your way back. Here is a tip for you... this is an audio forum, post something about that for a while and forget the other crap.
    Post edited by KennethSwauger on
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    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

  • Dennis GardnerDennis Gardner Posts: 4,785
    You can't compare the death figures of all cars. Compare the death rate of other $80,000+ family sedans and you will get a similar result. You do get what you pay for in safety design.

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  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,245
    #seagull
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  • EVFrisbee wrote: »
    Hey LWB,

    There have been 5 deaths in Tesla's with 100,000 sales. 2 of those were theft related. 2 of them the cars drove off a cliff. We don't know if that was car related or human error or suicide because the drivers died.

    For Every 100,000 Gas cars 17 people die.

    Those are the facts. Please research it.

    Like I said. I'd rather be in the car that you can walk away from. Not only for my life but also because I can salvage my amps and sub the next day.

    Sal

    When there have been 50 million sales the per 100,000 death toll in the Tesla might mean something. If we compare two groups of 100,000 niche market cars of the same price sold to a similar demographic where is the death toll then?

    Out of the 100,000 cars you cite for the gas car deaths how many of those were used cars? When you compare new cars of the same price sold to a similar demographic then the number you cite might hold meaning.

    You do know Tesla did not pioneer or even develop its chassis design model correct?

    If that is the best you have this just became boring behond hope.

    I just did about 30 seconds worth of google search and found an article in the Detroit Free Press listing 9 models with zero deaths per 100,000 for model years 2009 to 2012.


    http://www.freep.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/29/study-chances-of-dying-in-a-car-crash-plunged-over-3-years/22521103/

    5 per 100,000? What a death trap.


  • EVFrisbee wrote: »
    My biggest problem with battery powered vehicles has always been the dirty nature of the battery production.


    New Article on how Dirty Lithium production is:

    http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/5/6/1524012/-Someone-is-lying-about-electric-cars-on-the-internet?detail=facebook

    I stopped reading at dailykos. Cite a paper written by a respected scientific journal and we can try again. I did skim the article and can only say Torro Cacca. The article is correct but only if you leave out 75% of the actual process.

    Here is something from digital trends citing the EPA.


    The EPA has linked the use of extremely powerful solvents in the creation of lithium electrolytes and cathodes to everything from cancer to neurological problems. Specifically, the cobalt used in the creation of the most energy dense lithium-ion batteries is poisonous and extremely carcinogenic. Pulmonary, neurological, and respiratory problems have all been connected to cobalt exposure.

    Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/hold-smugness-tesla-might-just-worse-environment-know/#ixzz481CWALXo

    Japan does not allow any but the final stage of battery production to take place in the country because of the polution. The reason why the dirtiest parts of the process take place in China is because no other coutries environmental agency will allow it. China is cracking down on production regs due to problems and in one case relocated an entire city due to abnormally high birth defect rates and ground water contamination.

    This is all remedial stuff here Sal. Lithium cobalt oxide batteries have been around since the early 80's. Yes, modern lithium ion batteries are heavily dependent on cobalt.

    You are correct on one point. There will never be 50 million Tesla cars built. Maybe by 5 million they can break into the top ten for brand safety. I was surprised by some of the brands/models on the list.

    Dailykos? Seriously Sal? You make it difficult to take anything you say seriously when that is the best citation you can give.

    Scientific American did one of the most impartial discussions of the topic I have read in a while. MIT has an extensive body of work on the topic if you felt like educating yourself on the process. There is more to a lithium chemistry battery than just the lithium.

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 41,220
    I realize Sal had gone the way of the dodo bird, so perhaps someone might have an answer. Say you're cruising down the road and run out of juice before you can find a charging station. What then, dead duck? I mean, it's not like you can call AAA for some gas.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • ken brydsonken brydson Posts: 7,359
    F1nut wrote: »
    I realize Sal had gone the way of the dodo bird, so perhaps someone might have an answer. Say you're cruising down the road and run out of juice before you can find a charging station. What then, dead duck? I mean, it's not like you can call AAA for some gas.

    They'll show up with a pack of AAA's. Couple days later you're good to go.
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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 41,220
    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 7,545
    You probably have to get a tow at that point, I'd guess.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
  • cmy330gocmy330go Posts: 2,299
    F1nut wrote: »
    I realize Sal had gone the way of the dodo bird, so perhaps someone might have an answer. Say you're cruising down the road and run out of juice before you can find a charging station. What then, dead duck? I mean, it's not like you can call AAA for some gas.

    Most likely a tow, but honestly you have to be a pretty major bone-head to even end up in the situation. It's honestly not much different than driving a gas car. I've never in my life ran a car out of gas, and in 11 months and 16k+ miles in my Tesla I've not come close to running out of power. Even if you're not close to a Tesla Supercharger or Destination Charger there are still numerous slower public charging stations, RV parks, and in a worse case scenario, standard outlets. And this is coming from someone who lives in Iowa. Not exactly an EV friendly part of the country.

    Obviously long road-trips take a little bit of forethought, but it is far quicker, and easier than most realize. Just take a look at www.supercharge.info. It's an independent site that lists all the Tesla Superchargers and allows you to turn on "range circles" to give you an idea of how to plan out a trip. The average distance between the chargers is approximately 120 miles or less. That equates to only about 15 minutes of charge time. Sure if you're driving a seriously long distance, you're going to have more downtime than if you were driving an ICE car, but that is a rare event for the vast majority of people, and if I had to guess, most people would be fine with a trip taking a little longer when they know they don't have to pay for the 'fuel'.

    Sorry, I guess I got a little long winded and slightly off course there.
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  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 41,220
    Most likely a tow, but honestly you have to be a pretty major bone-head to even end up in the situation.

    No offense, but you are seriously underestimating the stupidity of people.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,752
    F1nut wrote: »
    Most likely a tow, but honestly you have to be a pretty major bone-head to even end up in the situation.

    No offense, but you are seriously underestimating the stupidity of people.

    LOL..thanks for the good chuckle to start my day off. Unfortunately your spot on. Look at the idiots that run out of gas still, and we have gas stations pretty much on every corner and highway exit.

    I mean....look at the boneheads who can't use a phone today. They walk off cliffs, walk into lakes while texting, crash cars....a bit of a stretch to think people will plan their trips with some forethought on where to fuel up.
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  • Strong BadStrong Bad Posts: 4,204
    Too funny!

    People that run out of gas and need AAA to come bail them out will be the ones running out of battery juice in a Tesla, thus starting a new argument and round of bashing for Tesla / electric cars. The freakin car will constantly monitor your power level and actually tell you when to recharge based on where you are and your location to a charging station. If thats not enough, then go buy a Prius.

    If Tesla / electric cars are not for you...then don't buy it. You won't find me putting out a PhD Dissertation explaining why I do or don't want one. You either do or you don't.
    No excuses!
  • F1nut wrote: »
    I realize Sal had gone the way of the dodo bird, so perhaps someone might have an answer. Say you're cruising down the road and run out of juice before you can find a charging station. What then, dead duck? I mean, it's not like you can call AAA for some gas.

    I am sure this has been addressed but seem to remember an issue with the first of the roadsters where completly depleting the battery meant a trip to Tesla for expensive service.

    I like the super capacitor idea in use for motorsports. Panasonic is working on a consumer version that has shown promise.

    Panasonic has been heavily involved with endurance racing where the ability to rapidly recharge is critical. 5 minutes from stone dead to fully charged would not be unreasonable for a consumer version.

    Denso electronics worked with several teams at the last 24 hour race at LeMans. Exact numbers are secret but reports from the teams indicated 10,000+ charge/discharge cycles without a single failure.

    In all fairness there have been catastrophic failures of super caps resulting in spectacular showers of sparks.
    cmy330go wrote: »

    Most likely a tow, but honestly you have to be a pretty major bone-head to even end up in the situation. It's honestly not much different than driving a gas car. I've never in my life ran a car out of gas, and in 11 months and 16k+ miles in my Tesla I've not come close to running out of power. Even if you're not close to a Tesla Supercharger or Destination Charger there are still numerous slower public charging stations, RV parks, and in a worse case scenario, standard outlets. And this is coming from someone who lives in Iowa. Not exactly an EV friendly part of the country.

    Obviously long road-trips take a little bit of forethought, but it is far quicker, and easier than most realize. Just take a look at www.supercharge.info. It's an independent site that lists all the Tesla Superchargers and allows you to turn on "range circles" to give you an idea of how to plan out a trip. The average distance between the chargers is approximately 120 miles or less. That equates to only about 15 minutes of charge time. Sure if you're driving a seriously long distance, you're going to have more downtime than if you were driving an ICE car, but that is a rare event for the vast majority of people, and if I had to guess, most people would be fine with a trip taking a little longer when they know they don't have to pay for the 'fuel'.

    Sorry, I guess I got a little long winded and slightly off course there.

    This thread has been off topic for a while now. For the type of driving you do the Tesla seems to suit you.

    Having full torque available at any RPM is attractive to me for towing and hauling and maybe one day the energy storage tech will make it possible for me to consider an electric truck or van (most likely a hybrid).

    Strong Bad wrote: »
    Too funny!

    People that run out of gas and need AAA to come bail them out will be the ones running out of battery juice in a Tesla, thus starting a new argument and round of bashing for Tesla / electric cars. The freakin car will constantly monitor your power level and actually tell you when to recharge based on where you are and your location to a charging station. If thats not enough, then go buy a Prius.

    If Tesla / electric cars are not for you...then don't buy it. You won't find me putting out a PhD Dissertation explaining why I do or don't want one. You either do or you don't.

    Well stated. It is refreshing to hear someone say they drive an electric car because they want to and it makes them feel good. Perfectly valid reasons as far as I am concerned.

    I get in a snit when someone has to tell me how they are saving the planet when they have no clue what is involved in the building of their cars. I have been building electric boats and retrofitting systems for more than 25 years so have followed the evolution of modern day drive systems closely. An electric vehicle is cleaner in its local environment but that does not make an EV green on a global level.





  • Strong BadStrong Bad Posts: 4,204
    There ya go! Electric vehicles and such are an after the fact thing. Let's say the Tesla and an equally sized gas powered vehicle needs X amount of pollution to be built. Now how about after the fact when they are on the road. Now what are they putting out.

    You'll never have a totally clean manufacturing process for anything. You have raw materials that are needed, the process itself to make the parts, then assembly and on and on.

    One of the reasons I got solar panels is to stick my middle finger up at Baltimore Gas and Electric. For the month of March, I got a check back from BG&E for $1.02. It's not the amount of the check that makes me happy, it's the fact that for the month of March, my solar panels produced more electric than what I used. I'll most likely be getting a larger check from them for the month of April since that was an even bigger month of electric production than was March.

    So, another "After the fact" deal here. Sure the panels and parts needed to be manufactured, but now they sit there on my roof doing their thing producing.
    No excuses!
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,178
    edited May 2016
    I've worked on the BG&E system. I'm surprised it still works.
  • I have been looking at solar power to run all of our 120 needs. We like where we live but the electrical leaves quite a bit to be desired. During recent storm activity I lost the UPS for the computer network after the power popped off and back on more than 20 times in an afternoon.

    What I would like to do is install enough of a system to run all of the 120 all of the time. Am I wrong in thinking I can run on my own solar/battery based system like an always on full house UPS?

    Other than the solar panels and batteries what is involved?



  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,245
    edited May 2016
    I have been looking at solar power to run all of our 120 needs. We like where we live but the electrical leaves quite a bit to be desired. During recent storm activity I lost the UPS for the computer network after the power popped off and back on more than 20 times in an afternoon.

    What I would like to do is install enough of a system to run all of the 120 all of the time. Am I wrong in thinking I can run on my own solar/battery based system like an always on full house UPS?

    Other than the solar panels and batteries what is involved?



    Steve
    Take this question to one of the solar threads, no offense just better suited

    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151185/anybody-using-solar-panels
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  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 10,548
    When solar is quoted they come up with a system that should closely balance your average use. However, if I run my stereo and AC during the day, which is mandatory in the summer, I still consume power. To do what you want would probably require a system much, much bigger, and a huge battery system for nighttime, and cloudy days when solar output is lower.
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  • txcoastal1 wrote: »

    Steve
    Take this question to one of the solar threads, no offense just better suited

    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151185/anybody-using-solar-panels

    Thanks Ron. Shows how observant I am. I did not realise there were solar threads.
    BlueFox wrote: »
    When solar is quoted they come up with a system that should closely balance your average use. However, if I run my stereo and AC during the day, which is mandatory in the summer, I still consume power. To do what you want would probably require a system much, much bigger, and a huge battery system for nighttime, and cloudy days when solar output is lower.

    I am not as concerned with balancing usage as I am protecting electronics. 120 only so no AC, HVAC, or range/stove top. With minimal disruption to our routine I could run everything I wanted on a 5kw generator.

    We are in a six hour average sunshine area so solar works well here and when the sun is not shining I can run a battery charger. Solar panels are optional for the application I have in mind.
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