Diminishing Returns? MIT cables.....

notified

[ ? ] lol ! feedback and static heard thru the PA system,,,,,,Note: MIT makes a reputable respected product...peace out homies!!

F1nut

notified wrote: »

But,again they are discussing the basics ie spk length and gauge recommendations,of which have been extensively studied by many since the dark ages! By now the accumulation of experimentation done by a community of researchers should show relatively the same results!

Sure, if it's basic zip cord. Factor in different materials, geometries, terminations, dielectrics, etc. and those dark ages basics are out the window.

notified

so your saying that due to the factors you sited the basic principles of recommended cable gauge and length have become so dramatically altered that they bear no relevance to previous recommendations If this holds true where does one go in this new enlightened age[other than the manufacturer] to find various reputable independent data testing pertaining to the new governing variables? I can see how new materials may allow for longer smaller gauge runs but wouldn't most other variables relate more to snd qualities?

tonyb

It all relates to sound quality, that's the point. Gauge would be more applicable to the application. For instance, you wouldn't need 9 ga. wire on a pair of bookies, but you might on big floorstanders with 12 in. woofers. If you tried putting 14 ga. on big floorstanders, then sound quality would definitely suffer.

You reference data testing, care to explain exactly what kind of testing ? You just talking scientific measurements ? If so, please explain what method or tool is used to measure soundstage width and height, flesh or tone of the notes, how sound decays on those upper frequencies, placement of instruments on a stage.

All things we listen for, and granted, subjective....but still what most want to hear and try and discern for themselves. I'm just curious how one method or scientific tool of measurement can determine that for every set of ears.

heiney9

Are we really going to engage in another pointless wire debate because of someone who contributes very little wants to stir the pot?

If anyone is bored, I'm sure re-reading one of the other thousand threads on this subject will be just as entertaining

H9

dhart86

Thanks for all the insights fellas...............
Now that we have all the scientific discussion out the way..........I have a pair of MIT Shotgun S3 (12ft pair) of speaker cables available. They are listed on other sites for $575 BUT I'll let them go to a polk member for $499 they will be re-listed in the flea market

notified

Tony-Again I'm a newbie layman on the technical aspects and obviously quite low on the learning curve and haven't done the research pertaining to these mega dollar high end wires,But is it safe to assume then that thru new materials and manufacturing aspects that current still cant be carried efficiently by a smaller gauge wire that equals that of thicker gauged [standard] high grade wire such as monster brand.If so wouldn't the same basic gauged to length recommendations apply? And in the manufacturing of high end quality wire wouldn't they use some sort of testing equipment to assist in the R and D or do they just make it and say ok guys give this a listen and tell me what you think,then try something else to see if there's a improvement

lightman1

I guess I should try harder to booger this thread up.

heiney9

notified wrote: »

Again I'm a newbie layman on the technical aspects and obviously quite low on the learning curve and haven't done the research pertaining to these mega dollar high end wires,But is it safe to assume then that thru new materials and manufacturing aspects that current still cant be carried efficiently by a smaller gauge wire that equals that of thicker gauged [standard] high grade wire such as monster brand.If so wouldn't the same basic gauged to length recommendations apply? And in the manufacturing of high end quality wire wouldn't they use some sort of testing equipment to assist in the R and D or do they just make it and say ok guys give this a listen and tell me what you think,then try something else to see if there's a improvement

Like I stated, there are thousands of threads here as well as Darqueknight's indepth analysis of cables, etc.

Not to be rude, but this has been covered sooooooooooooooooooooo many times before.

Get your search on and you will have enough reading material for a week.

There is no point in starting another discussion when so many exist already,

H9

lightman1

^^^^^^ +10 on that, B.

notified

Heiney- Thanks for your comment you obviously contribute quite the attitude to this forum,BTW this wasn't about the pros and cons of expensive cable ,my original post was about gauge to length recommendations It went somewhat off line when I used audioholics information site as an example pertaining to gauge to length and possible signal degradation derived from long runs [the later being inquired by the original poster]

tonyb

notified wrote: »

Tony-Again I'm a newbie layman on the technical aspects and obviously quite low on the learning curve and haven't done the research pertaining to these mega dollar high end wires,But is it safe to assume then that thru new materials and manufacturing aspects that current still cant be carried efficiently by a smaller gauge wire that equals that of thicker gauged [standard] high grade wire such as monster brand.If so wouldn't the same basic gauged to length recommendations apply? And in the manufacturing of high end quality wire wouldn't they use some sort of testing equipment to assist in the R and D or do they just make it and say ok guys give this a listen and tell me what you think,then try something else to see if there's a improvement

There is actually some real estate between high end mega buck cables and your local zip cord, it's not one or the other.

Current can be efficiently carried in smaller gauge wire, that's not the question. Should be how much current can it carry. That depends on the application as I pointed out in my previous post. Many more factors goes into a cable beside just wire. The wire alone you have different gauges, quality of metals used, how it's pulled, twisted, treated. You have different characteristics that will effect signal flow, sound, impedance, etc. You have different insulating materials that also will effect the sound....air, plastic, magnets,paper, etc.

There's more to it than just gauge and wire is just wire. Thing is, whether or not any of it applies to your individual application, and ears, can only be accounted for through experience, trial and error, listening for yourself on your gear in your home.

heiney9

Sorry for the attitude...........this has been covered umpteen thousand times, so I'm out.

H9

P.s. Perhaps start a new thread with your specifics rather than asking in a high end cable thread.

notified

Tony- I can completely understand your point As its quite obvious that competing high dollar brands thru different manufacturing design yield varying snd attributes that are all subjective in terms of snd to the range of purchasers.My question concerning their use was and still is wouldn't the same gauge to length recommendations apply to both expensive high end and standard high grade wire?...ie -in a 35'+ run wouldn't both recommend 12g or better

tonyb

Theoretically, yes....to answer your question. How well they perform under those circumstances though may be different, depending.

Depending on what ? Things I mentioned before. So in theory your answer is yes, but you may experience various performance issues between brands.

notified

Thanks Tony I was perplexed when F1 suggested that it only pertains to zip cord Perhaps he too meant to imply the performance benefits in the equation instead of replying to the basic question asked

honestaquarian

I am an owner of both the S3 and S1 cables. I'm using the S3 for my center and the S1's for the bottom end of mt 3.1TL's
Me likey dis cable!!!!

notified

Its my sincere hope that one day I'll be able to afford such cable so that I can decisively comment on its cost to performance aspects!

honestaquarian

I got'em after they had been discontinued (*previous gen*) for half price from a guy on audiogon with whom I had previously purchased a pair on eBay years prior.

tonyb

notified wrote: »

Its my sincere hope that one day I'll be able to afford such cable so that I can decisively comment on its cost to performance aspects!

Don't let retail prices deter you from experimenting for yourself. Many brands on the used markets are very good deals. Under 200 bucks for decent speaker cables and or IC's can make significant improvements over your standard zip cord/Monster cable/ Monoprice stuff.

lightman1

I for one like the Wireworld IC cables. Haven't heard the speaker cables yet. Not too expensive but a fine product.
Still need a better pre though.

afterburnt

"some people like cupcakes better. I for one care less for them!"

erniejade

@lightman1 I grew up on Nathans back east but I have to admit, I do like vienna beef dogs better.

erniejade

I almost forgot ww ic are darn good. So is az matrix II

polkfarmboy

The earth is also flat!

notified

xapri79-I'm in total agreement your points made,they somewhat reiterate what I was trying to imply in my hot dog analogy following lightman's hot dog post.To be a informed consumer especially in the electronics market takes diligent research,reading [multiple] reviews from both professionals and consumers in a effort to ascertain the best purchase to make.This again holds especially true for high end cable and interconnects since first hand testing and comparisons are often impossible to do.And this is what makes the internet such a invaluable tool in todays marketplace!!........[Although most reasonably intelligent consumers already know this and it bears little relevance pertaining to the original posters inquiry! ]

tonyb

Reviews are useful certainly, but none the less it's hard to grasp the reality until you can hear it with your own ears. I can't tell you how many times I read raving reviews on something, bought it, and sold it the next day.

So while a useful tool to narrow the field, it's not the only tool. Make sense ?

Also, to get your ears on a variety, get yourself to some Polk get togethers that may be in your area. Go to some hi-fi shops and listen, bring a cd or other form of digital recordings with you your familiar with.

heiney9

Reviews are a good guide. In my case as many times as reviews have been spot on, they have also left me wondering WTF.

You also have to look hard at where the review is coming from. A perfect example (and an extreme one) is Consumer Reports. They are a good source for some things and a very bad source for others because their criteria can be very different from the end user.

Just because something gets a good review on a HT website, doesn't mean it's going to perform well for a discerning audiophile. I'm thinking Oppo reviews as one example.

H9

notified

Right! Thats why I sited multiple reviews As one may give it a high recommendation and another not so much By looking at many reviews one usually has a consistency of coming out better,however it does stand to reason to take into account where the review is coming from and the possible affiliation to the production in question.[But again logic dictates!]

notified

Tony-You make some [obvious] good points to follow! However in many instances the listen before buying scenario cannot be applied. For instance in my town of a little over100000 theres only 1 [franchised] stereo/electronics shop that may be able to order high ended gear. There used to be at least 5 but they've all gone the way of Bestbuy! So unless the retailer allows for exchanges your left with little option but to keep it or sell at a loss. Also its all subjective anyway as its been stated numerous times in this forum that snd is subjective to the listener and a product that snds like a definite improvement in one system may not be so much in another......So whats left-research research research [by what ever means], and the hope that your sending your valuable cash in the best fashion possible!