sda 1c studio's

soundfreak1

Need some feedback on the 1c studio's as what I can expect vs my RTA12C'S (fully modded ) the 1c's are stock so I was wondering hmmmmm, an old friend has them and is considering selling them. So a large diff , small diff, sideways???? Input would be appreciated as I've not had my ears on them yet (but will).

Schurkey

Am I right? 12Cs are roughly comparable to the SDA 2 series, except that the 12s don't have the SDA circuitry. In other words, there's some similarity in terms of cabinet size and driver count.

Some folks here are very enamored of the SDA 2As and 2Bs, but I'd call the 1Cs a dramatic step upwards from a 12C.

If the asking price is anything like reasonable, I'd suggest JUMPING ON THAT DEAL.

Nightfall

I think I remember reading that SRS/2.3/1.2's aside Matt Polks favorite were the 2's.

For whatever that's worth, just throwing it out there.

soundfreak1

I'm a little concerned about loss of detail due to the "side by side driver (4 vertical and horizontal ) are these drivers rolled off at different freq like the 12c's to eliminate this effect? In the straight m12's this is pronounced and "muddy "if you will. Also concerned about the detail due to the "sda" effect itself. As you can maybe tell I don't have any ear time with sda's . The RTA'S are very detailed (with the mods) except for the bass below 800 htz (solved this with biamping with a pair of JBL drivers (L123A's in separate cabs) through external xover at 1k and below and am sending 1k and above to the RTA. just wondering how these might sort out.

honestaquarian

soundfreak1 wrote: »

I'm a little concerned about loss of detail due to the "side by side driver (4 vertical and horizontal ) are these drivers rolled off at different freq like the 12c's to eliminate this effect? In the straight m12's this is pronounced and "muddy "if you will. Also concerned about the detail due to the "sda" effect itself. As you can maybe tell I don't have any ear time with sda's . The RTA'S are very detailed (with the mods) except for the bass below 800 htz (solved this with biamping with a pair of JBL drivers (L123A's in separate cabs) through external xover at 1k and below and am sending 1k and above to the RTA. just wondering how these might sort out.

@soundfreak1
Do yourself a HUGE favor and sit and listen to a pair of SDA's. Stop overthinking and just listen. IF (*and this is a huge caveat,because more often than not they ain't*) they are set up properly Your ears will tell you everything that you need to know.

westmassguy

soundfreak1 wrote: »

I'm a little concerned about loss of detail due to the "side by side driver (4 vertical and horizontal ) are these drivers rolled off at different freq like the 12c's to eliminate this effect? In the straight m12's this is pronounced and "muddy "if you will. Also concerned about the detail due to the "sda" effect itself. As you can maybe tell I don't have any ear time with sda's . The RTA'S are very detailed (with the mods) except for the bass below 800 htz (solved this with biamping with a pair of JBL drivers (L123A's in separate cabs) through external xover at 1k and below and am sending 1k and above to the RTA. just wondering how these might sort out.

The RTA-12's woofers are receiving the same stereo signal, albeit frequency modified. The SDAs inner woofers receive the stereo signal, while the outer woofers receive an inverted signal from the opposite channel. Completely different design.

soundfreak1

westmassguy wrote: »

soundfreak1 wrote: »

I'm a little concerned about loss of detail due to the "side by side driver (4 vertical and horizontal ) are these drivers rolled off at different freq like the 12c's to eliminate this effect? In the straight m12's this is pronounced and "muddy "if you will. Also concerned about the detail due to the "sda" effect itself. As you can maybe tell I don't have any ear time with sda's . The RTA'S are very detailed (with the mods) except for the bass below 800 htz (solved this with biamping with a pair of JBL drivers (L123A's in separate cabs) through external xover at 1k and below and am sending 1k and above to the RTA. just wondering how these might sort out.

The RTA-12's woofers are receiving the same stereo signal, albeit frequency modified. The SDAs inner woofers receive the stereo signal, while the outer woofers receive an inverted signal from the opposite channel. Completely different design.

Great, that solves that issue! Now I guess it's up to a good listen. Wish I could listen on my krell but I'm not dragging it around nor would I drag the sda's around either. Nothings perfect.LOL gonna see what he wants for them.

Schurkey

westmassguy wrote: »

soundfreak1 wrote: »

I'm a little concerned about loss of detail due to the "side by side driver (4 vertical and horizontal ) are these drivers rolled off at different freq like the 12c's to eliminate this effect? In the straight m12's this is pronounced and "muddy "if you will. Also concerned about the detail due to the "sda" effect itself. As you can maybe tell I don't have any ear time with sda's . The RTA'S are very detailed (with the mods) except for the bass below 800 htz (solved this with biamping with a pair of JBL drivers (L123A's in separate cabs) through external xover at 1k and below and am sending 1k and above to the RTA. just wondering how these might sort out.

The RTA-12's woofers are receiving the same stereo signal, albeit frequency modified. The SDAs inner woofers receive the stereo signal, while the outer woofers receive an inverted signal from the opposite channel. Completely different design.

The SDAs inner woofers get the stereo signal. The outer woofers on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th-generation speakers provide low-bass augmentation to about 100 Hz, PLUS they provide the reverse-polarity frequency-shaped signal that causes the SDA effect. I think the SDA signal ranges from about 100 Hz to about 2KHz

With regard to the 1s and 2s, the 1B and the 1C have the SDA drivers doing double-duty, while the 2A and 2B are comparable.

motorhead43026

I am one of those enamored of 2A'S and the 2Bs. I enjoy my 2BTL's immensely. Every equipment and cable upgrade I have thrown at the them, has resulted in nothing but the positive.

notified

Hi I'm no expert on this,so take it for what its worth.As a 1b owner myself and from what I;ve read across this forum there are factors to be considered when buying them --For the sda to work at its best the spks should be placed 4-8 feet part and at least 3 feet from the side walls and on the same plane [no toe in] and within a foot from the back wall for good bass.In my particular set up mine are on a 14 foot wall spaced at 4-5 feet apart with 2.5" to the side walls.In this configuration the imaging is good and the sound stage is wide between the speakers. However [I suppose] because of my proximity the sidewalls and the fact that I have furniture on both sides near the speakers I don't get a sense of the sound stage extending beyond the left and right of the spks.In comparison to my 10a's the sound is much fuller and the bass is much improved and I'd consider them to be a definite step up,However it should be noted that the sda effect is source dependent[relying on the recordings good stereo separation] and may sound kinda muddy in recordings that don't exercise that engineering.

soundfreak1

[/quote]
The RTA-12's woofers are receiving the same stereo signal, albeit frequency modified. The SDAs inner woofers receive the stereo signal, while the outer woofers receive an inverted signal from the opposite channel. Completely different design.
[/quote]
The SDAs inner woofers get the stereo signal. The outer woofers on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th-generation speakers provide low-bass augmentation to about 100 Hz, PLUS they provide the reverse-polarity frequency-shaped signal that causes the SDA effect. I think the SDA signal ranges from about 100 Hz to about 2KHz

With regard to the 1s and 2s, the 1B and the 1C have the SDA drivers doing double-duty, while the 2A and 2B are comparable.
[/quote]

Hmmmmm this may make my biamping of the low freq interfere with SDA effect and render them no advantage the way I have my system set up. It works very well with the RTA'S. But may make the SDA effect moot. Hmmmmmm.

westmassguy

soundfreak1 wrote: »

Hmmmmm this may make my biamping of the low freq interfere with SDA effect and render them no advantage the way I have my system set up. It works very well with the RTA'S. But may make the SDA effect moot. Hmmmmmm.

You're over-thinking. You cannot bi-amp any of the smaller SDAs, 1/A/B/Cs, 2/A/B, or CRS/CRS+.

soundfreak1

westmassguy wrote: »

soundfreak1 wrote: »

Hmmmmm this may make my biamping of the low freq interfere with SDA effect and render them no advantage the way I have my system set up. It works very well with the RTA'S. But may make the SDA effect moot. Hmmmmmm.

You're over-thinking. You cannot bi-amp any of the smaller SDAs, 1/A/B/Cs, 2/A/B, or CRS/CRS+.

I biamp differently than most (due to the RTA effect that I'm not willing to loose) I use an external xover set to 1k and below to the jbl drivers and 1k and up to the RTA'S (have left the RTA'S crossover intact. I do use two sepporate amps.This way I have retained what the RTA''S do so well and eliminate the lower bass that I find (to my taste) too slow and not "punchy" enough for me ( 6.5 drivers and PR'S cant develope enough punch) This has worked incredibly well and gives me the best of both worlds. ("No one speaker does everything perfert) this is why I "overthink" this change, and I do overthink things ( just my nature ) . But it has served me well in the past and as I am anal I can't do anything about it anyway! LOL.

Moose68Bash

soundfreak1 wrote: »

westmassguy wrote: »

soundfreak1 wrote: »

Hmmmmm this may make my biamping of the low freq interfere with SDA effect and render them no advantage the way I have my system set up. It works very well with the RTA'S. But may make the SDA effect moot. Hmmmmmm.

You're over-thinking. You cannot bi-amp any of the smaller SDAs, 1/A/B/Cs, 2/A/B, or CRS/CRS+.

I biamp differently than most (due to the RTA effect that I'm not willing to loose) I use an external xover set to 1k and below to the jbl drivers and 1k and up to the RTA'S (have left the RTA'S crossover intact. I do use two sepporate amps.This way I have retained what the RTA''S do so well and eliminate the lower bass that I find (to my taste) too slow and not "punchy" enough for me ( 6.5 drivers and PR'S cant develope enough punch) This has worked incredibly well and gives me the best of both worlds. ("No one speaker does everything perfert) this is why I "overthink" this change, and I do overthink things ( just my nature ) . But it has served me well in the past and as I am anal I can't do anything about it anyway! LOL.

@soundfreak1,

I probably shouldn't shouldn't weigh in on this for three good reasons:

1. You are talking about your personal preferences for your system's performance -- e.g., bass rendition.
2. I have no listening experience with RTAs.
3. Other guys -- e.g., westmassguy -- know a lot more about this stuff than I.

With those caveats, however, I'll say the following about my experience with a set of SDA 1Cs that I've owned (and loved) for over 25 years. A couple of years ago, as described in a thread on this Forum, I "fully modified them (with Vr3 Mods doing the crossover).

I have never been disappointed -- especially since the mods -- with the 1Cs's rendering of bass lines all the way down to Bach's organ music, to which I listen occasionally, I would even say that every so often I hear great bass performance from the 1Cs, and it makes me put the same music in the main rig to make sure that the SDA SRS 1.2tls render the bass with equal sound quality. [I have to say that the SRSs consistently outperform the 1Cs, but I like to be reassured!]

I think that, if you buy the 1Cs, mod them, and put them in your system, you won't be disappointed.

Just my $0.02 worth!

soundfreak1

I should be more specific on the bass thing. The Polks in general (I've owned virtually all m series and all RTA series) to me are fantastic sounding speakers and go very low and deep. Having said that I want more! ( LOL) I want fast as well I want to hear "BUMP" out of a bass drum strike instead of bummmmmmmp. I want it to come and go (as it does live) and not be "elongated " as I hear it in the polks, small drivers and PR's just are not capable of this I've found. . I get that from the JBL drivers but I don't like the JBL mid and high reproduction. The combo has made (for me) the perfect sound. They play with a senergy that is most satisfying for me. I've only heard simular qualities out of ADS 910's triamped with tube on the tweets, and for my budget the RTA with the JBL drivers (12" out of a vintage pair of L100 centery's) offer a very satisfying sound. But have always heard the SDA mystique and it makes me curious. But I can't believe they would work any "better" at least the way I have set up the system.

dale442

Only one way to know...



Dale

soundfreak1

dale442 wrote: »

Only one way to know...



Dale

I know, it's a ****!

westmassguy

soundfreak1 wrote: »

I should be more specific on the bass thing. The Polks in general (I've owned virtually all m series and all RTA series) to me are fantastic sounding speakers and go very low and deep. Having said that I want more! ( LOL) I want fast as well I want to hear "BUMP" out of a bass drum strike instead of bummmmmmmp. I want it to come and go (as it does live) and not be "elongated " as I hear it in the polks, small drivers and PR's just are not capable of this I've found. . I get that from the JBL drivers but I don't like the JBL mid and high reproduction. The combo has made (for me) the perfect sound. They play with a senergy that is most satisfying for me. I've only heard simular qualities out of ADS 910's triamped with tube on the tweets, and for my budget the RTA with the JBL drivers (12" out of a vintage pair of L100 centery's) offer a very satisfying sound. But have always heard the SDA mystique and it makes me curious. But I can't believe they would work any "better" at least the way I have set up the system.

If it sounds good to you, that's all that really matters.
I would add, slow or elongated bass is not a term I would use for SDAs. Quite the opposite. The 6.5" drivers are very fast, and providing the cabinets are fully sealed, the "Fluid Coupling" transfers that fast response to the PR very efficiently. The more drivers you have, the deeper it goes, while still being "fast".
Your RTA bi-amp scenario would not work with the SDAs, and would muck things up.

soundfreak1

Westmassguy, that what I'm thinking, I will just have to listen to them as they are. The RTA work well in this senario but I have my doubts on the sda's. I'm just so used to having so much bass control I don't know that I can go back now. It really is something. I believe I have reached that point of "diminishing returns" now and improvement may either be "stupid money (ie any amount I can't afford) and it may be I'm chasing my own tail. LOL but I won't stop trying!

westmassguy

With full mods, including the sub-Bass Drive Inductors, you'll be swimming in bass from the 1Cs

Nightfall

westmassguy wrote: »

With full mods, including the sub-Bass Drive Inductors, you'll be swimming in bass from the 1Cs

I think he's saying vintage Polk bass is not "punchy" enough for him, not that there isn't enough bass. He prefers bass "slam" to a deep rumble.

soundfreak1

The rta's have plenty of bass it's just not fast and dynamic enough. I like my eyeball and other round things to pulsate when a bass drum is struck, I like hearing a very detailed bass guitar stand out with each string being plucked over and separate from the drums and that's elusive. The jbl drivers do that fantastic, but the polks do the mids and highs fantastic as well. I wish Mathews put 12" active drivers in the polks sometimes. That would be interesting.

Moose68Bash

@soundfreak1,

I would like to try to listen to the effect you are describing on my 1Cs and SRSs.

Can you suggest a few albums and/or tracks that illustrate for you the bass sounds you are talking about.

Odds are that I won't have the recordings, but I'd love to try!

westmassguy

Nightfall wrote: »

westmassguy wrote: »

With full mods, including the sub-Bass Drive Inductors, you'll be swimming in bass from the 1Cs

I think he's saying vintage Polk bass is not "punchy" enough for him, not that there isn't enough bass. He prefers bass "slam" to a deep rumble.

A fast, quality sub for the last half octave will solve that.
My 2As have plenty of slam, without my SVS in the mix for music.

soundfreak1

Bingo westmassguy

soundfreak1

Moose68Bash wrote: »

@soundfreak1,

I would like to try to listen to the effect you are describing on my 1Cs and SRSs.

Can you suggest a few albums and/or tracks that illustrate for you the bass sounds you are talking about.

Odds are that I won't have the recordings, but I'd love to try!

Alan parsons eye in the sky, acoustic alchemy "chow", dire straights "brothers in arms, Especially Flim and the BB'S "Tricycle" title song. Also almost any Hiroshima and of course Pink Floyd DSTM.

F1nut

6.5 drivers and PR'S cant develope enough punch

They can.

soundfreak1

Moose68bash, be aware if you can find tricycle it worth having, it's on a DMP studio recording and is an unbelievable recording. Beware the first bass slam in the first few Seconds will make you jump. It's funny to watch people hear it for the fire time! Crank it up a little (not too much) for the first few seconds. LoL if you have Pandora it is on their just not that we'll reproduced of course (streamed).

soundfreak1

F1nut wrote: »

6.5 drivers and PR'S cant develope enough punch

They can.

I have tried and tried with multiple amps types multiple pre's, and the "full monty" mods and could never get the results "wanted" until I biamped with the jbl drivers. First time I listened to that combo I needed a cigarette after. It took an intervention by a good friend to try it (I didn't think it could be done) it was an ephifanany. Without doubt the biggest single improvement in my system I have heard. Just can't put it into other words.

soundfreak1

nbrowser wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

6.5 drivers and PR'S cant develope enough punch

They can.

Especially if the cabinets are sealed really well.

They were I have about 5/6 sec delay on the push test. I completely removed all old glue (what a mess) and resealed them with a vengeance. Dynamat, hurricane nuts, ect,ect ,ect. Clarity esr caps as well. Rdo 194 upgrade blaa blah blaa. I've gone as far as I can with them and still love them. Just bass thump is lacking "for me" with the biamp 12"drivers holy crap on a cracker.

Moose68Bash

soundfreak1 wrote: »

Moose68Bash wrote: »

@soundfreak1,

I would like to try to listen to the effect you are describing on my 1Cs and SRSs.

Can you suggest a few albums and/or tracks that illustrate for you the bass sounds you are talking about.

Odds are that I won't have the recordings, but I'd love to try!

Alan parsons eye in the sky, acoustic alchemy "chow", dire straights "brothers in arms, Especially Flim and the BB'S "Tricycle" title song. Also almost any Hiroshima and of course Pink Floyd DSTM.

Thanks, @soundfreak1.

I'll buy Flim & the BB's "Tricycle" and try it. [Didn't have any of the titles you listed in my collection. ]