RTIa9

jwb0007

62caddy,

Your comment ("However my A9 serve only the rears in a system of 6 speakers in all. (Fronts are a pair of A7s and a pair of the last series Snell J7).") intrigues me.

The A9s are the big & bad boys, right? Is it because you have 4 fronts that you relegate the 9s to surround duty? So, no .1sub? Center?

I may be misunderstanding. However, if no sub, then I understand you would want the A9s (and others) to go full bore, and be juiced with a lot of power.

I have been told by some other owner of A9s that they "roll off" significantly starting about 40Hz. That they do not produce much usable sound below 30 Hz or so. That your experience?

jwb0007

P.S. to my comment above. As I have the RTi12s, freq range down to 30Hz, and the A9s going to 18Hz, is that additional range of the A9s likely what makes them "power hungry", or as they are so near the 12s, does the "power hungry" eval apply to the 12s as well?

Would you think that a good sub would moderate that power requirement any significant amount?

62caddy

With the Stereo Review Test Record I still have, A9s output was still healthy at the 20 - 28.5 Hz Hz test warble - albeit judged by subjective listening.

Factory specs do list A9 LF at 30Hz (-3dB) which coincides with my listening observations.

My system is simply stereo - x3 amplifiers & 3 pair of speakers. (6.0 you might say)

The fronts face the listener; the A9 are placed facing the listener's direct left & right at the extreme ends of the room; their output more or less perpendicular to that of the fronts.

Having the A9s so positioned has created outstanding separation and exceptionally broad soundstage for music as well as with movies.

Equally dramatic improvements in system LF response as well.

Thanks.

62caddy

jwb0007 wrote: »

P.S. to my comment above. As I have the RTi12s, freq range down to 30Hz, and the A9s going to 18Hz, is that additional range of the A9s likely what makes them "power hungry", or as they are so near the 12s, does the "power hungry" eval apply to the 12s as well?

Would you think that a good sub would moderate that power requirement any significant amount?

I cannot account why Polk specs the RTi12 LF limit @ 18 Hz and the RTiA9 @ 30 Hz as their dimensions and driver compliments are so similar.

As I mentioned, deeper a speaker's LF output capability (within the limitations of its size) dictates some sacrifice in sensitivity and the lower the frequency, the higher the quantity of amplification needed to reproduce it.

Human hearing is less acute at lower frequencies; the perception is that the SPL is not as high as it actually is - as when measured by an SPL meter. Therefore the perception is lower sensitivity and/or seemingly relatively high power to achieve a certain level of loudness with either of these models: The portion of the spectrum utilizing the vast majority of power (perhaps as much as 90%) is the bass frequencies (woofers).

tonyb

62caddy wrote: »

[
Interestingly, an AK member uses a pair of tube McIntosh MC60s with his A9s and he's very happy with the setup. Go figure...

Tubes and SS amplification are horses of a different color. For simplicity sake, our comments refer to SS amplification.

When a speaker is properly powered, you can play louder because the sound is cleaner, you don't get that distortion in the sound when the receiver is stressing at higher volumes.

For some, because they play cleaner when juiced up, it may appear they are not as loud, but they are. You can just enjoy it more. Some believe it's not loud unless it hurts their ears, my wife being one of them, but if you were to put a SPL meter on it you'd see that it was indeed loud.

F1nut

"xcapri79 wrote: »

.....................

I said in one sentence what took you multiple paragraphs. Typical.

Inspector 24

Tee Hee, another powering the A9's thread. Always interesting. If you don't or can't understand the principals involved it's better to experience big amp power on your A9's to know.

However if you don't have good hearing and/or don't turn them up very much at all, you may never benefit from a big amp...at which point why bother with a big heavy speaker like the A9?

I absolutely hated the A9's on just AVR power; I thought the RT800i's sounded better until I had real power.

Also, maybe confusion over watts, amps and current? Watts is Volts x Amps. Volts is electrical pressure if you will, Amps is the current; the actual volume or amount of electricity.

To make an analogy of it think of the electricity in terms a delivery truck. Voltage is how fast the truck is going, amperage is how large the load is. The AVR gets the electricity there plenty fast enough but can't deliver large enough loads to adequately supply all the speakers. Big separate amps deliver at the same or higher speed but with much larger trucks with much larger loads of electricity which can adequately supply all the speakers.

If that still doesn't make sense I'll whip out the water analogy.

tonyb

I like that analogy, were gonna have to steal it or make it sig material.

cfrizz

Wow nice job Inspector! This is the first time someone put it in a way that I could actually understand...thanks!

tonyb

cfrizz wrote: »

Wow nice job Inspector! This is the first time someone put it in a way that I could actually understand...thanks!

You mean you understand more than baseball bats, spiked leather cloves and steel toed boots ? Dang....you do have a softer side. lol

cfrizz

Yes Tony I do. And I'd be more than willing to teach you what I know about the above mentioned implements on you personally!

soccerTOOLsu

Are you guys not setting the LFE to 80 when you are using an amp to power your RTiA7's and RTiA9's?

I'm running dual subwoofers and wife already complains about it when she is upstairs directly above the media room.

My assumption being that setting the speakers to big and letting them produce more bass in the 40-80 range would make the bass louder. Is this a correct assumption?

jwb0007 wrote: »

P.S. to my comment above. As I have the RTi12s, freq range down to 30Hz, and the A9s going to 18Hz, is that additional range of the A9s likely what makes them "power hungry", or as they are so near the 12s, does the "power hungry" eval apply to the 12s as well?

Would you think that a good sub would moderate that power requirement any significant amount?

tonyb

Inspector 24 wrote: »

If that still doesn't make sense I'll whip out the water analogy.

Don't be "whipping out" anything.....this is a family site man. lol

Regarding the setting to 80, amped or not, set to small or large, subwoofer blah blah.

These are really just parameters to adjust the sound in your home, your room, to your ears. None of this is written in stone as a must do. We can recommend things all day to what has worked for some here, but in the end, do what sounds best to you.

For my ears, with big floor standing speakers, amped or not, setting to small makes them sound thin to me. So I like large settings for big speakers, amped or not, subwoofer or not. That's just me though, everyone has their own preferences.

Inspector 24

^^ my experience as well.

soccerTOOLsu

Follow up questions:

If I get amp(s) and upgrade to RTiA7 or RTiA9.

Where should the existing RTiA5's go?

The other speakers are CSiA6 (center) - FXiA6 (sides) and RTiA3 (rears).

Would it be best to go from a 7.2 system to a 9.2 system or stay at a 7.2 system and re-purpose the RTiA5 as sides or rears?

tonyb wrote: »

Inspector 24 wrote: »

If that still doesn't make sense I'll whip out the water analogy.

Don't be "whipping out" anything.....this is a family site man. lol

Regarding the setting to 80, amped or not, set to small or large, subwoofer blah blah.

These are really just parameters to adjust the sound in your home, your room, to your ears. None of this is written in stone as a must do. We can recommend things all day to what has worked for some here, but in the end, do what sounds best to you.

For my ears, with big floor standing speakers, amped or not, setting to small makes them sound thin to me. So I like large settings for big speakers, amped or not, subwoofer or not. That's just me though, everyone has their own preferences.

tonyb

7.2 or 9.2 ? That's your call, you know your room better than we do. With that many speakers though, a 5 channel amp is going to be in your cards.

Unless your game includes multi-channel music playback on the same system, I would say for HT having big floor standers in the surround positions is kind of a waste.

cfrizz

Here you go Soccer.

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/170069/parasound-hca-1500a#latest

Nightfall

soccerTOOLsu wrote: »

The other speakers are CSiA6 (center) - FXiA6 (sides) and RTiA3 (rears).

Would it be best to go from a 7.2 system to a 9.2 system or stay at a 7.2 system and re-purpose the RTiA5 as sides or rears?

How big is your room? Is your seating pretty close to the rear wall or is there a good amount of space?

cstmar01

soccerTOOLsu wrote: »

Follow up questions:

If I get amp(s) and upgrade to RTiA7 or RTiA9.

Where should the existing RTiA5's go?

The other speakers are CSiA6 (center) - FXiA6 (sides) and RTiA3 (rears).

Would it be best to go from a 7.2 system to a 9.2 system or stay at a 7.2 system and re-purpose the RTiA5 as sides or rears?

tonyb wrote: »

Inspector 24 wrote: »

If that still doesn't make sense I'll whip out the water analogy.

Don't be "whipping out" anything.....this is a family site man. lol

Regarding the setting to 80, amped or not, set to small or large, subwoofer blah blah.

These are really just parameters to adjust the sound in your home, your room, to your ears. None of this is written in stone as a must do. We can recommend things all day to what has worked for some here, but in the end, do what sounds best to you.

For my ears, with big floor standing speakers, amped or not, setting to small makes them sound thin to me. So I like large settings for big speakers, amped or not, subwoofer or not. That's just me though, everyone has their own preferences.

you would need a very large room to make that work well. Honestly I would probably just either use them in another set up or sell them. the FXi series IMO is a better surround and the use of a tower isn't always the best for that application.

Try it and see but a 9.2 system is overkill in standard rooms IMO. I ran a 7.2 and that was even overkill for most applications and it was a larger room at 18x20 with an open side to a kitchen.

BurrInspector

Hey guys, all I want to add is that I have 4xrtiA9's in the room. Initially I had them hooked up to my Denon Avr 4520 for tests, for HT the system sounded adequate however for music it was terrible imho. The highs were piercing and the a9's to me sounded unbalanced.
So I added my new Rotel RMB1575 5x250w amp to the system and I can tell you this, I will NEVER ever recommend anyone who is getting the a9's to power them with just the AVR. NO SIR NO WAY!
Get a decent amp (I will be getting the halo a21 soon for the fronts) and hear the a9's come alive... adding an amp took the top end down a notch and added a lot more to the mids and lows. Even for HT it was evident that the a9's were singing more and the subtle changes in sound details were audible. The movies tested were War of the Worlds (the glass shattering without the Rotel powering the a9's omg!), Saving Private Ryan and Iron Man 2. That's all I had on bluray at the time of testing amp vs AVR.
So I suggest you dig deep into that wallet if you are thinking about going the a9's route.
Peace

tonyb

Thanks man, you only confirmed what we've been saying all along. Good for you, rock those bad boys.

BurrInspector

I read everything said on this thread and I had nothing more to add but my experience. I have met a lot of people that think you only add an amp to play louder, but there's soo much more to an amp and that's already been covered here by you guys and numerous other powering the 'beast' threads.

BurrInspector

Yep good point guys, to me the highs are much less forward and harsh than it was with just the avr and I sat about 1.5, 6, 9 meters away from the rtia9 during the test. With an amp the a9's do sound warmer and I don't necessarily believe by adding an amp the a9's lost a little on the top end. i think that overall the top end seemed to be tamed, where the highs seem to have come down a notch. Probably cause now the speakers are balanced and producing the full ranged sound

I remember reading a small article (can't remember the topic) where the author ran tests where he would play some sort of music or sound and have listeners judge the way it sounds. He would play the same sound or music 5 times, only 3 of the played versions would have little changes in the frequency response. He made very subtle changes to the highs or lows in the sound, over 65% said the original 2 sounded the best and words used were, it sounded fuller, easier on the ears, and alive, if I remember correctly. (Anyone else read or have read anything similar?)
I guess without an amp powering the a9's the mid to low range drivers were starved, so the highs sounded way off and forward?

cfrizz

Once you hear the difference you just aren't willing to settle for less.

Inspector 24

And you realize the value of more power and refinement. It's how I ended up with a HCA-3500, fully modded from Big Sky Audio.

soccerTOOLsu

What do you consider high quality interconnect cables?

tonyb wrote: »

soccerTOOLsu wrote: »

Is the Emotiva XPA-7 recommended here? I will have more power the speakers are capable for the Center, Side & Rears.

Usually not with RTI speakers. Some like them though, some not, mainly because the amp and speakers are both a bit on the brighter side. If you like that kind of sound though, rock it.

Your other concern isn't valid though. Any amp doesn't automatically put out it's rated power when you turn it on. It simply stores the power for when it's needed by the speakers. Don't pay attention to those manufacturer suggested wattage numbers, you can never have too much power, but not enough can cause problems.

Most like Parasound amps, B&k amps, Adcom, McCormack, and a few others to pair up.Most all can be had on the used markets between 4-800 bucks for 2 channel amps....which may be the way for you to go and let the receiver handle the other speakers. Don't forget some quality interconnect cables to hook it up too.

tonyb

soccerTOOLsu wrote: »

What do you consider high quality interconnect cables?

tonyb wrote: »

soccerTOOLsu wrote: »

Is the Emotiva XPA-7 recommended here? I will have more power the speakers are capable for the Center, Side & Rears.

Usually not with RTI speakers. Some like them though, some not, mainly because the amp and speakers are both a bit on the brighter side. If you like that kind of sound though, rock it.

Your other concern isn't valid though. Any amp doesn't automatically put out it's rated power when you turn it on. It simply stores the power for when it's needed by the speakers. Don't pay attention to those manufacturer suggested wattage numbers, you can never have too much power, but not enough can cause problems.

Most like Parasound amps, B&k amps, Adcom, McCormack, and a few others to pair up.Most all can be had on the used markets between 4-800 bucks for 2 channel amps....which may be the way for you to go and let the receiver handle the other speakers. Don't forget some quality interconnect cables to hook it up too.

That all depends on your budget. Good ones on the cheap that don't sound bad would be Signal cable analog 2's, Bluejeans BL-1. Cables run up to any price point but for starters, the ones I mentioned are solid. Mit makes some nice ones too, along with others like Morrow, Analysis Plus, Audioquest, and about a million more.

soccerTOOLsu

Wide = 16' 8"
Depth = 12'
Height = 8' 4"

Yes. Sitting is close to rear wall. Have the rears on a wedge and angled down.

Nightfall wrote: »

soccerTOOLsu wrote: »

The other speakers are CSiA6 (center) - FXiA6 (sides) and RTiA3 (rears).

Would it be best to go from a 7.2 system to a 9.2 system or stay at a 7.2 system and re-purpose the RTiA5 as sides or rears?

How big is your room? Is your seating pretty close to the rear wall or is there a good amount of space?

Nightfall

That's just a tad smaller than my room and I'm sticking with 5 channels...