If you can't set up a stereo set yourself - bust out the big dogs.

miner

Looking good Joey. Due to shape of Strads enclosure placement closer to wall is ideal. Nice to have friends close by who are willing to help with adjustments. More than one pair of ears are always advisable. Your setup is glorious.

megasat16

It really sounds like you haven't got the right tubes in your SLP-05 yet. What 6SN7s are in there? I went through about 20 pairs of tubes before I like it sound.

The Classe will be ready for the 800D V3 for the future. Are you using stock tubes in the 211FE? My ears on the 211AE suggests that they have wide soundstage but shallow in depth. Music needs to float in layers in front and behind the speakers so the speakers disappear.

Toolfan66

WOW!!!! Very nice gear, and I'm really jealous of the room, I would kill to have a room just for my gear..

Great work!!!!

Enjoy!!!

Joey_V

mega

Give me the breakdown:

1. Tubes for the Cary 05.
2. Tubes for the Cary 211.... which to replace first? The 6SL7?

Can't compare the bass coming out of the Cary 211FE and the Classe M600, the Classe wipes the floor. The vocals though sounds better on the Cary 211FE.

Atleast through the Diamonds.

On the Strads, I have to listen again.

brianle

If you like vocals, tube power amp is the way to go ... there is no replacement, IMO

xjghost

I feel like I'm swimming in the deep end...... way over my head.....

dkfreebird

DSkip wrote: »

brianle wrote: »

If you like vocals, tube power amp is the way to go ... there is no replacement, IMO

I'd agree with that with one exception. I've never heard vocals like I'm getting with the Ampino/Marantz/Rosso combination, tube or not. Sick, sick, sick vocals.

I can attest to that combination,I was able to hear that on Saturday and was blown away.He even hooked the Dayens up to his 3.1tl's and it sounded great.I'm already in the process of moving some gear to get the Dayens in the mix.

megasat16

Joey_V wrote: »

mega

Give me the breakdown:

1. Tubes for the Cary 05.
2. Tubes for the Cary 211.... which to replace first? The 6SL7?

Can't compare the bass coming out of the Cary 211FE and the Classe M600, the Classe wipes the floor. The vocals though sounds better on the Cary 211FE.

Atleast through the Diamonds.

On the Strads, I have to listen again.

Keep in mind,

1. I don't have the Strads. I have DIY Open Baffled Full Range Line Array that are over 100dB sensitivity. So, I can hear minute difference in sound.

2. We are using different source components and different amps. My preference of the 6SN7 tubes in the SLP-05 is based upon the results of comparing multiples combinations with SS amps, SS preamps and SS source as well as several Tube DAC, tube several tube amps (SET and PP).

So, what works best for me may not be the best for you. But, that's out of the way, here is what I prefer in the SLP-05.

I am using two pairs of Psvane CV-181 TII in the phase gain spots (V1, V2, V4 and V5). I found they are very low noise floors compared to many of the NOS tubes and very balanced sounding tubes. The tubes to roll are the input / preamp spots (V3 and V6). Here are the tubes I like in the order.

1. Pope 6SN7 (killer mids and highs with deep bass)
2. Sylvania 6SN7 Bad Boy Style (balanced sounding with more highs)
3. RCA VT-231 / 6SN7 Gray Bottles
4. CBS 6SN7
5. KenRad Black Glass 6SN7, RCA 6SN7GTA, Raytheon 6SN7GTB, RCA 5692 Red Base
6. Sylvania 6SN7 Chrome Dome
7. Psvane CV-181 TII (great for phase gain tubes but not so much as the input tubes) and Sohpia Electric 6SN7s

Many other assorted (Russian, Sovtek, EH, Chinese Tubes, some NOS) tubes I tried but but not important to me to mention.

Tubes I have not tried but still hunting to get some
1. Tung Sol 6SN7 Black Glass Round Plates (should be tied to 1 or 2)
2. Real Deal Mullard CV181

About 211, yes on the 6SL7 first. A friend has a real nice RCA 6SL7 but it doesn't seem to help. But you could try 6SU7 Black Glass as a sub for 6SL7 and I like it way better than 6SL7.

300B, hard to tell which one. Crazy Expensive for the good sounding ones. I have little experience with 300B tubes.

845, I am afraid you are stuck with Graphite plates 845 Shuguang or Psvane versions since the metal plates ones from Psvane or Shuguang (WE version) seems to have only 75W dissipation. It would likely run out of life if used in the 211 amp.

The RCA (used, old, NOS) are too expensive and hard to get a matched pair.

Joey_V

Thanks Mega... when I find the time to start tube rolling, I will PM you if you don't mind.

Joey_V

xjghost wrote: »

I feel like I'm swimming in the deep end...... way over my head.....

Haha... yeah.

Synergy and overall system and room interaction trumps money spent.

I still think I prefer the Diamonds for certain things for me. But my brother heard the Strads vs Diamonds back to back last night and he prefers the Strads for his reproduction preference. I place a lot of weight on imaging and I have not yet made it with the Strads.

It is significantly better now than when Skip and Halen heard it.

But, I will say, I am insanely picky. I will pick a system apart.

Joey_V

If the Strads have to go, in 4 hours, I already found a buyer for the same as I bought it for.

I'm going to listen for a few more to make sure I know what I'm doing.

I just want contingency plans ready in case I go either way.

Nightfall

Joey_V wrote: »

If the Strads have to go, in 4 hours, I already found a buyer for the same as I bought it for.

I'm going to listen for a few more to make sure I know what I'm doing.

I just want contingency plans ready in case I go either way.

I bet you have your eye on the new B&W 800 Diamonds.

http://dl.groovygecko.net/anon.groovy/clients/bandw/WebVideos/Products/800-Series/800-D3/800-D3-explore-EN.mp4?utm_source=Bowers+&+Wilkins&utm_campaign=cc1aeacd07-20150908_US_800_PREVIEW&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_22ec1c80b7-cc1aeacd07-49219641&mc_cid=cc1aeacd07&mc_eid=2dda6b12d2

Joey_V

Nightfall wrote: »

Joey_V wrote: »

If the Strads have to go, in 4 hours, I already found a buyer for the same as I bought it for.

I'm going to listen for a few more to make sure I know what I'm doing.

I just want contingency plans ready in case I go either way.

I bet you have your eye on the new B&W 800 Diamonds.

http://dl.groovygecko.net/anon.groovy/clients/bandw/WebVideos/Products/800-Series/800-D3/800-D3-explore-EN.mp4?utm_source=Bowers+&+Wilkins&utm_campaign=cc1aeacd07-20150908_US_800_PREVIEW&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_22ec1c80b7-cc1aeacd07-49219641&mc_cid=cc1aeacd07&mc_eid=2dda6b12d2

I do... I do.

Won't be out till next year and that'll give me time to heal.

I will audition them for sure.

But I am pretty happy with my 802 Diamonds. So I have no qualms.

The search for the "absolute sound" is difficult and full of dips and valleys. I spoke to Halen in detail over the phone today. Skip was full of ideas yesterday as well, so I thank him.

I've been doing this long enough to know what I like and what I don't.

The Strads are great speakers, no doubt.

But there are a few things I uncovered owning them.

1. The Strads like power and they like to be pushed. The sound really comes to their own at realistic sound levels. The power and force of the notes are fully realized at a louder volume than I like to listen to. When I demo a speaker, usually the dealer adjusts the sound at a level where it is "realistic"... but I listen at a lower volume... and I just don't get the "feeling" at a lower volume.
2. I was able to get goosebumps last night, after I fixed the positioning... but I only had 1 goosebump. I hooked up the 802 diamonds and I think I ended up with atleast 3 or 4 goosebumps.
3. I like a little edge (precise staging, not bright or tinny) to my soundstaging, meaning I like a more "etched" appearance if you will. Diamond dome tweeters give me that feel. I honestly don't feel like my Diamonds are overly bright. I have heard them in several set ups where I can just run out of the room and where they suck. But in my setup, with my damped room, they sound just right to me... that said, nothing's perfect.
4. My room is a little short at 18 feet... Halen and I agreed, I probably need a dedicated 25x20 foot room to comfortably fit the Strads well.

There are new 800 series coming out... I will be a big early adopter of those if they work for me, but like I mentioned above. I am not going to be rushing out the door to sell my 802 Diamonds.

Are they perfect? No.

But are they good for the price I paid for them (used)? Yes.

Do I think the Strads are a better speaker than the 802 Diamonds? Yes.

But I don't have the ability or the listening preference to max the Strads out.

Joey_V

Aaaand on queue.... Halen is blowing up my phone... lol... love this guy.

brianle

Looks like you're already set to transfer the Strads to someone else

Joey_V

brianle wrote: »

Looks like you're already set to transfer the Strads to someone else

There's a BIG man in the background who wants them and offered me a deal I could not refuse. I asked for 2 more nights of critical listening to be sure, but I'm pretty sure I have a good hold on the sound at this time. Halen and I talked about it. You can tell if the speaker is for you the moment you hear it, even when you're off axis.

My mistake was that I listened only at realistic volumes (85db or more) at the dealer and didn't try to account for lower listening levels that I like to do on a regular basis.

But like Halen told me - there's nothing like auditioning a pair of speakers or amps in your own house. That's the only way you know if it'll work for you.

Who knows? In a few years when I move to my new place and if I am lucky enough to design my own, larger stereo room... maybe it'll work. But as of right now, unless something drastic changes in the next 2 nights, I think my mind is made up.

But, I've been wrong before.

megasat16

You are welcome, Joey! Of course, you can send me PM when you are ready to roll the tubes in your Cary.

It seems you have doubts with the Strads. I guess changing speakers or other gears too quickly usually result in frustrations but not helping much. I would investigate what's causing you to like the B&W more and consider what you think is lacking from the Strads. Then, address the issues by accordingly?

megasat16

I looked at your Strads and saw a picture with something (robot toys?) put on the Strads.

If you are looking for more highs from the Strads, you could use external super tweeters (ribbon or fostex dome) and placed them on the Strads where the toys were placed. This should help somewhat for the ring radiators.

Joey_V

megasat16 wrote: »

I looked at your Strads and saw a picture with something (robot toys?) put on the Strads.

If you are looking for more highs from the Strads, you could use external super tweeters (ribbon or fostex dome) and placed them on the Strads where the toys were placed. This should help somewhat for the ring radiators.

Those are lasers... we used them to aim at Halen's head and tried to take a picture but he ran away. Skip did his best to take said photo but Halen was too quick....

I am not keen on tweaking or adding to a designer's final product... a Strad shouldn't need to be tweaked by an amateur like myself.

Joey_V

megasat16 wrote: »

You are welcome, Joey! Of course, you can send me PM when you are ready to roll the tubes in your Cary.

It seems you have doubts with the Strads. I guess changing speakers or other gears too quickly usually result in frustrations but not helping much. I would investigate what's causing you to like the B&W more and consider what you think is lacking from the Strads. Then, address the issues by accordingly?

I think the bottom line is that I don't have the room size to let the Strads flow. I think the Diamonds for some reason fit the room better.

I am not here to say the Strads are not good, far from it. I think I just cannot flex them enough. Or maybe my current gear isn't good enough. I don't know.

And I'm not ready to try a pair of Dagostinos to see. I have limits to how far off the deep end I'm willing to go at any given time.

Plus... the new 800 series are coming out.... gotta try those guys out too!

Lol...

megasat16

Looks like you guys had a lot of fun playing around the room yesterday. lol

Well, these are not the internal tweaks and I guess any speakers could use the external super tweeter for the extra crisp imaging.

I have owned and heard a lot of speakers (and drivers) that uses the ring radiator tweeters. While they are no doubt a direct comparison to the diamond dome, they are not that much lacking in the High Frequency extension. I am not trying to persuade you to keep the Strads or anything, but I feel there is something missing in the electronics or other department. I don't want to think it's a SS Classe Amp since it's no way it'll be lacking the highs. I found exactly the same problem with the SLP-05 at the beginning. It may be just that 802DV2 you have mask better for what's lacking from the SLP-05.

Joey_V

megasat16 wrote: »

Looks like you guys had a lot of fun playing around the room yesterday. lol

Well, these are not the internal tweaks and I guess any speakers could use the external super tweeter for the extra crisp imaging.

I have owned and heard a lot of speakers (and drivers) that uses the ring radiator tweeters. While they are no doubt a direct comparison to the diamond dome, they are not that much lacking in the High Frequency extension. I am not trying to persuade you to keep the Strads or anything, but I feel there is something missing in the electronics or other department. I don't want to think it's a SS Classe Amp since it's no way it'll be lacking the highs. I found exactly the same problem with the SLP-05 at the beginning. It may be just that 802DV2 you have mask better for what's lacking from the SLP-05.

Mega

It's not that the Strads are lacking top end or air.. they do.

I actually find it peculiar... but I find the top end of the Strads to be a little "unnatural" compared to a tubed 802 Diamond. Something about the top end I find a little "bright" on the Strads wheras I find it very tolerable on the Diamonds.

Weird, I know. It's not muted by any means... it's just that I got used to my treble with tubes and the Diamonds that I find the Revelator tweeter and Accuton midrange to be a little... different. And I noticed this with my audition too at the dealer (but his depth and his density of imaging was far superior to mine at this time).

I made a comment about this "air" on one of my threads here on Polk Forum when I listened to the Elipsa SE (the 2nd time)... but I wasn't sure if it was just something I heard in passing or what. Now that I have the Strads at home... I can verify that it is not muted, but it is extended.... just in a different way than the 802 Diamonds.

Joey_V

Mega,

I need to listen some more and swap out some tubes on the 05. I have 3 sets of tubes from RCA to Tung Sols... but none are at the level of the Popes since I cannot find a pair.

I'm also going to pop in the 211FE.

Joey_V

Also, I want to let Skip and Halen know, we made a mistake in the set up of the power yesterday.

We accidentally plugged the amps to the non-dedicated 20 amp outlet..... so that's why when I plugged the Classe M600, we noticed the lights dim.

After you guys left, I checked the wall outlets and noticed that I had it in the wrong outlets and I switched them out. The amps are now back in their dedicated 20 amp outlets.

I was wondering how I was drawing so much power to sag the lights...

tratliff

Joey

Upscale audio has the Popes in stock. The website says they will only sale to customers who purchased tube equipment from them. Call and talk to Kevin. I bet he will sell them. But at $250+ each.

I really want a pair for my pre but have not made the leap yet.

Joey_V

My pre was from upscale... U want to go halfsies?

Joey_V

And no Kevin is firm. He will not sell to anyone else

Joey_V

Btw, in the end... I want to thank this forum for allowing me to post my thoughts. This place is like a sounding board to me. I just post what I think and you guys are nice enough to play along.

Met some nice fellas along the way too

Joey_V

So, listened last night, actually ended up sleeping really late and kinda tired for my shift today morning.

Got the image to tighten up considerably. I was playing with distance from the front baffle to listening position - I think I am finding the sweet spot slowly but surely. Will listen a lot more today and start switching amps and tubes.

Imaging has a density that I am not getting on the Diamonds at this time. Along with an overall sound cohesiveness that seems to be more balanced than the Diamonds.

That said, something about the tone I find a little too sweet.

Perhaps it's the sound signature I'm hearing.

Overall, I can see how these are a better speaker than the Diamond.

Not sure, more investigating to do but the system is significantly much better than when Skip and Halen were here for initial set up. We set up the baseline but now it's really coming together.

Actually has life to it now.

tratliff

Can't split the cost right now. I sold my amps last week and am looking for something new. Not in any hurry but wanted to be free when I do find what I want. Once I get the new ones I would be happy to split the $$$'s.