Halo Integrated or Halo separates?

comfortablycurt

Hey everyone. Some of you guys have been helping me in my other threads to find new bookshelf speakers and a new universal player. I've mentioned that I'm in the process of upgrading everything...which leads me to a preamp and power amp next.

I just bought some LSi9s that will be arriving in a few days. The rest of this system will basically be built around them for now. I'm mainly considering the Parasound Halo gear. I'm really liking the new Halo Integrated, https://parasound.com/halo/integrated.php .

This thing does everything I could want it to do. However, I plan to incorporate my 2 channel rig into my HT system eventually, which suggests to me that getting a separate preamp and power amp may be a better plan. I'm really considering the Halo P5, https://parasound.com/halo/p5.php . The bass management, HT bypass, and built in DAC are all very tempting features for me. I listen to digital sources a lot via my laptop, and this would save me from needing to get a separate DAC, and I'll also be using a sub with my 2 channel at least some of the time. Are there even any other preamps out there that are comparable to the P5? I haven't really found any. If anyone knows of any other preamps that are comparable in terms of functionality, I'd really like to see them.

I'd really like some Halo amps as well, but I'm not really liking their price tags. I'm looking for some suggestions for power amps in the <$1000 range. I've considered the Halo A23, which is just barely in my price range. I don't know what the general sentiment toward Emotiva is these days, but I've also been looking at the XPA-2 Gen 2. Those are two very different amps though.

I should also add that I'm leaning towards the Marantz UD5007 universal player right now. us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=BluRayDVD&SubCatId=0&ProductId=UD5007 , so that's likely to be the primary source.

I feel like I just asked a lot of questions. Any input would be much appreciated.

edit -

After reading through this again, I'm thinking it may be better suited to the electronics section of the forums.

comfortablycurt

Yes! I should have elaborated more on that. That's part of my conflict. The preamp section of the Halo Integrated is basically the P5. The Integrated and the P5 have different DACs, but that part isn't really of great importance to me.

As I said, I plan to integrate my 2 channel system into my HT system eventually, and I'll likely be using external amps for all of my HT speakers. This suggests to me that I'd be better off getting the P5, because I'll want to have matching amps for my HT anyway. Obviously I can still use different external amps with the Halo Integrated, but then I'd have the amp in the Integrated just sitting there doing nothing. I guess I'm just used to the versatility of separates.

Nightfall

The Marantz PM8005 has HT bypass. Just another less expensive option to check out.

comfortablycurt

Nightfall wrote: »

The Marantz PM8005 has HT bypass. Just another less expensive option to check out.

This looks really nice. It lacks the bass management and subwoofer controls of the P5/Integrated, which is a drawback for me. That's one of the things that appeals most to me about the P5. This Marantz is definitely worth considering though. It looks like a nice integrated amp.

comfortablycurt

The actual performance of the DACs in question is somewhat of an afterthought. The only thing that's really important to me is that it actually has a DAC. A lot of my more casual music listening is done with my laptop. I'm a huge Grateful Dead fan, and rather than downloading all of their shows, I typically just stream them from Live Music Archives. Currently, my laptop is connected through the headphone jack to a pair of RCAs into the back of my preamp. Clearly it's not an optimal setup, so any kind of DAC is going to be a huge improvement. I'd rather avoid getting a separate DAC if possible, but I suppose it's a factor that I'm a bit flexible on. I can get a suitable DAC that won't take up much space for fairly cheap.

I'm really leaning more toward separates than I am toward an integrated amp. As far as the preamp is concerned; HT bypass is a must, bass management and subwoofer outputs are a huge plus, and a built in DAC is an almost as huge plus. Is the P5 really the only preamp that has all of these features?

Nightfall

You don't *have* to have HT bypass. You can go preout from AVR to an input on the pre/integrated and level match. Then when you're doing HT you move the volume dial on the 2 channel to a specific point that you measured and marked (you can use a smart phone db meter app).

comfortablycurt

That's true. I could always do some kind of workaround like that, but it's something I'd really rather avoid. It's something to keep in mind.

Nightfall

comfortablycurt wrote: »

That's true. I could always do some kind of workaround like that, but it's something I'd really rather avoid. It's something to keep in mind.

It's inconvenient for sure and you're going through two preamps but for HT I'm not sure how much that matters.

marvda1

here's my take on it as I have never been bitten by the home theater bug. it is my belief that if you are trying to get great home theater sound or great two channel sound you are trying to achieve two different goals that don't always mess in the same areas. therefore go all out on either one but if you get the best two channel system you can and just hook your tv up to it you will not miss home theater.

go the other way and you will most likely start to gravitate towards two channel in the future as witnessed by the amount of threads started by people wanting to move to two channel.

hochpt21

Sounds like your leaning towards the P5. Should be a solid foundation to a system in your price range.

If your ok buying used there are tons of great options for amps under a grand.

Check audiogon and usaudiomart.

Upstatemax

I love my new P5.

The only other Pre that has anywhere near the functionality of the P5 is the Musical Fidelity M1 SDAC. The SDAC has a great sounding DAC and it's what I owned before my P5.

However the M1 SDAC seems to have build quality issues. My original unit went back twice and the brand new unit they sent me worked for a whopping 30 minutes before it started to have the same issue that the original unit went back for the first time (crackling/distortion with analog inputs).

If I had the money, I would have pulled the trigger on the Integrated...

It has a much better DAC in it and DSD capability.

As far as the UD5007. I also had a TON of issues with mine (returned it to Crutchfield). My Oppo BDP 103 has been flawless and Oppo's customer service has been outstanding. When the SDAC first started with its issues, there was a lot of trouble shooting to see if it was the 103 or the SDAC causing the issue.

Oppo tech support could not rule out my 103 so they had me send it in. They tested it and could not find an issue (because the problem was with the SDAC), but they still replaced the analog board just to make sure it was not an intermittent issue. The service was quick, friendly and they did WAY more than they had to.

WagnerRC

Toss in the musical fidelity m6si to the mix. I can't find any weakness yet.

Mikey081057

I have the P5 and the A21.... Nothing beats a great pair!!!

steveinaz

Parasound HCA-1500's can be found used for $500 or less.

gce

Curt, you are doing exactly what I want to do. So I will be watching this thread so hopefully I can learn some more about this. What got me going this route was seeing the Parasound integrated. But after talking to you a little in another thread I'm now also looking at the P5 since I have monoblocks for the fronts.

It will be interesting to see what others have to say.

comfortablycurt

marvda1 wrote: »

here's my take on it as I have never been bitten by the home theater bug. it is my belief that if you are trying to get great home theater sound or great two channel sound you are trying to achieve two different goals that don't always mess in the same areas. therefore go all out on either one but if you get the best two channel system you can and just hook your tv up to it you will not miss home theater.

go the other way and you will most likely start to gravitate towards two channel in the future as witnessed by the amount of threads started by people wanting to move to two channel.

I've been back and forth between 2 channel and HT for years. When I first got into the audio hobby it was because I was building a surround sound system. Then I discovered SDAs and started getting more into 2 channel. 2 channel is what I've mostly focused on in more recent years. For now this 2 channel rig is going to basically serve as my HT system as well. My current 2 channel rig serves this purpose, and it does well. I plan to integrate a HT system into my 2 channel a few years down the line though, and I want to be prepared for that.

hochpt21 wrote: »

Sounds like your leaning towards the P5. Should be a solid foundation to a system in your price range.

If your ok buying used there are tons of great options for amps under a grand.

Check audiogon and usaudiomart.

I wouldn't say that I'm totally set on the P5 yet, but I haven't seen anything else that does what I want, so there's a good chance that I'll go in that direction. I'll most likely end up buying used.

WagnerRC wrote: »

Toss in the musical fidelity m6si to the mix. I can't find any weakness yet.

I just gave it a look, and it looks nice. I'm going to give it a closer look tonight when I've got some more time.

Mikey081057 wrote: »

I have the P5 and the A21.... Nothing beats a great pair!!!

I'd like to get an A21 eventually, but that price tag is pretty formidable at the moment...lol

I see you're using them in your 2 channel rig. Is this a separate 2 channel rig or is it integrated into your HT? Have you ever run your LSiMs with the Halo separates?

Mikey081057

I just use the Parasound rig on the 2c with the sda's. But i do listen to the 705's in stereo with the Marantz AV7701 and the Sunfire TGA 7401 and they are also quite impressive.

comfortablycurt

steveinaz wrote: »

Parasound HCA-1500's can be found used for $500 or less.

I hadn't looked into any of the older Parasound amps. I've heard very good things about the HCA-1500 in the past. I just did a quick search on eBay and it looks like there are a lot of them in the $500-$600 range. I'm liking this price tag a whole lot. Thanks for the suggestion!

gce wrote: »

Curt, you are doing exactly what I want to do. So I will be watching this thread so hopefully I can learn some more about this. What got me going this route was seeing the Parasound integrated. But after talking to you a little in another thread I'm now also looking at the P5 since I have monoblocks for the fronts.

It will be interesting to see what others have to say.

It's going to be a gradual process, but I'll get there eventually. I'm still a bit torn between the P5 and the Integrated, but I think the P5 is the better option for me.

Upstatemax wrote: »

As far as the UD5007. I also had a TON of issues with mine (returned it to Crutchfield). My Oppo BDP 103 has been flawless and Oppo's customer service has been outstanding. When the SDAC first started with its issues, there was a lot of trouble shooting to see if it was the 103 or the SDAC causing the issue.

Oppo tech support could not rule out my 103 so they had me send it in. They tested it and could not find an issue (because the problem was with the SDAC), but they still replaced the analog board just to make sure it was not an intermittent issue. The service was quick, friendly and they did WAY more than they had to.

Is the UD5007 a relatively newly released unit? I haven't read much of anything about problems with them, but I haven't done a ton of research. I was also considering the OPPO BDP-103, but I liked the fact that the Marantz has a dedicated 2 channel output.

Upstatemax

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Is the UD5007 a relatively newly released unit? I haven't read much of anything about problems with them, but I haven't done a ton of research. I was also considering the OPPO BDP-103, but I liked the fact that the Marantz has a dedicated 2 channel output.

The UD5007 has been out for over 2 years. I'm willing to accept that I may have just received a bum unit. What made me run from it was how horrible Marantz customer service was...

From what I've seen, the early build units (like I had), had a bunch of bugs and issues. People seem to have better luck with newer built versions. I've also heard of people having to send the ones they get in from accessories4less back multiple times before they get a good unit...

You could always pick them both up and send the one you like least back...

gce

comfortablycurt wrote: »

It's going to be a gradual process, but I'll get there eventually. I'm still a bit torn between the P5 and the Integrated, but I think the P5 is the better option for me.

I see no difference in the Integrated and the P5 except for the Amp's and DAC. DSkip said he wouldn't buy a Parasound for it's DAC. So does that mean the ESS Sabre32 Reference DAC with USB in the Integrated is just a run of the mill DAC?

comfortablycurt

I took his comment more along the lines of not using the quality of the DAC as a significant point of consideration when looking at Parasound gear.

edit-We posted at the same time.

That's exactly how I'm seeing it. The different DAC's in the Integrated and the P5 aren't really a relevant point in deciding between them for me. The fact that they have one is the only point that really matters.

Erik Tracy

I see that you have different speaker manufacturers between the fronts and surrounds - so, what is your thinking for wanting to stay with a single vendor source for amplification?

I tend to give more bias/weight to 2-channel over HT in my hybrid rig, so I forgo the notion of keeping surrounds & center with the same speakers or amplification as the front left/right. Musical performance first, then HT second - I mean does it really matter that much if Iron Man surround effects match timber and amplification to the fronts?

I'm not that picky for movies.

So, for your music portion of your overall system - what is more convenient or meets your budget objectives: integrated or separates?

I'm a fan of the integrated - fewer chassis, interconnects, power cords, less space. And if you are a fan of Parasound you can still go with the Halo integrated and go with external Halo amplification for the rest of your system.

Drawbacks: the Halo Int is new - no reviews or opinions yet. You'd have to buy 'new'. Maybe you could hit the same price point with used P5 and ext Halo amps - not sure. But, you'd need quality ICs and power cords so maybe the price point becomes moot.

comfortablycurt

Currently I don't even have a HT system. The only speakers I've got are SDA 2As, Monitor 7As, and the LSi9s that are coming this week. I currently only have a 2 channel setup, so that's my only immediate concern. When I do set up a new HT system, I'll be getting matched speakers. I'll most likely upgrade the LSi9s to the LSiM703s and get LSiM speakers for the rest of the HT speakers as well. This is something that isn't likely to happen for a few years yet, but future integrability with a HT system is an important factor in the 2 channel gear I'm buying, because I'm not likely to replace it for a long time.

comfortablycurt

I used to have an RTi HT setup, and it was great. I'm far from deciding what speakers to go with for that future HT setup though. When I do finally start setting it up though, it will likely have matching speakers.

WLDock

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I'm still a bit torn between the P5 and the Integrated, but I think the P5 is the better option for me.

The Integrated is $2500, the P5/A23 separates slightly less. Going with used, and considering the Classic Series, or other brand gives more options if your looking to save a few bucks. Can put together a pre, beefy amp and DAC for about $1300-$1500. Still will have the HT bypass, and sub crossover.

Preamp
Parasound - Classic 2100
http://www.amazon.com/Parasound-Classic-2100-Stereo-Preamp/dp/B003IWWLO0/ref=cm_cr_pr_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8
http://cnj.craigslist.org/ele/4924533202.html

Amp
B&K Ref 200.2
http://denver.da.craigslist.org/ele/4914352928.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-K-COMPONENTS-LTD-REFERENCE-200-2-TWO-CHANNEL-POWER-AMPLIFIER-225-WATT-AMP-/351368138078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51cf2c4d5e
Parasound 2250
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parasound-2250-Classic-2-Channel-High-Current-250w-Stereo-Amplifier-/111632913920?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19fdd71600

$300 DAC
Musical Fidelity V90 DAC
Peachtree Audio DAC iTx
Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100

Here's a nice little combo. The pre has sub out.
B&K PS-3 pre & 1400 sII amp - $475
http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-K-1400-II-Amplifier-and-matching-B-K-PT-3-Pre-Amplifier-Class-A-125W-8-OHM-/301592687976?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4638533568

comfortablycurt

I was initially looking at the Parasound 2100. That would be a much more budget friendly option that would offer all of the functionality I want aside from the built in DAC. I've considered getting a 2100 and getting something like a DacMagic. By the time I've bought both of these though, I've spent nearly what I would have spent on the P5. I could of course significantly lower those prices by buying used. That 2100 on CL that you posted is a great deal. I'm kind of tempted by it actually.

I actually have the Parasound 2250 you linked on my watch list already. That's another amp I'm really considering. I haven't looked into any B&K's yet. I've gotten several recommendations for them, so I'll have to take a look at them.

steveinaz

The 2250 is no match for the HCA-1500. Just saying. The HCA uses the same JFET front end of the Halo series, and the same 60 AMP capability. Halo is simply the updated HCA series, with a bit more power (205 watts vs 250 watts), new "looks" and a nearly 70% price increase.

I bought my HCA new, 12-13 yrs ago, and never had a desire to replace it--nor have I ever felt it was holding my system back in any way.

comfortablycurt

That's good information, thanks. Looks like the HCA is the way to go.

I can get a Parasound 2100 for $400 + shipping. Anyone have any thoughts?

comfortablycurt

To elaborate - Someone in New Jersey has a Parasound 2100 listed on Craigslist for $400. I contacted them, and they'd be willing to ship it. However, the seller would only accept a money order, which I'm a little sketchy about.

txcoastal1

Have you googled his name and address

Where does he live? Maybe a Polkie can help out

WLDock

steveinaz wrote: »

The 2250 is no match for the HCA-1500.

The 1500 seems like a Beast!