MonoPrice Hi-Fi Speaker Speaker Cable

tonyb

WilliamM2 wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

So if your claim is such that it's all about bias, I agree.....but one side uses their own personal preferences as their bias based on actual use, while the other side creates their bias based on what they read. Not an apples to apples comparison, wouldn't you say ?

Again, you claim one side has no experience. I say I have more experience than you, I've listened for differences in cables sighted and blind. You haven't.

Really ?? Have you ever asked me what cables I've heard ? Don't recall you have chief, so once again your blabbering out your you know what.

Yet when others have asked you, we get zilch.

But....since you want to be confrontational, and the subject matter has turned to biases, let me offer up an analogy.

A guy hears from his mechanic that Ford sucks. Maybe his aunts sister had a Ford and it sucked. He reads reviews on the internet and gets a mixed bag. His bias is they still suck. Had friends with a Ford Pinto way back when and they all sucked.

One day a buddy comes over with a new Ford and they take a road trip, maybe across state, go see a concert and this guy drives the car and likes it.

His bias is still that Ford sucks.....except for that particular model he drove. His bias about the brand is based on speculation from others, the model that doesn't suck is based on him actually driving the car, aka....experience behind the wheel.

You can't change biases unless you have hands on experience. If the new car the guy drove latter fell apart, then his biases are confirmed through personal experiences.


Now, since you claim you get crickets from me, even though I don't recall you ever asking the question, I'll humor you with an answer.

Monoprice, Bluejeans, Canare, Bogden, Monster, Mac, Kimber, Cardas, Acoustic Zen, MIT, Analysis plus, Grover more recently, Audioquest, Straightwire, Reality cables, Audio Metallurgy, JPS, Pangea, Black mountain, Poimia....think that's how you spell it, Cullen, Musical fidelity....back when they made cables, don't know if they still do, Douglas connection, Bens diy IC's, AR, Home depot cable, and I'm sure a few more I've forgotten along the way. Those are just some of the brands I've had hands on experience with, not to mention the others I've simply heard in others systems.

Granted, I've not heard every line from every brand mentioned. Difference is I admit that, you on the other hand can't seem to name anything or discuss the system it was used in.

You see Willy boy, nobody here cares if you think cables don't matter.....if it's based on something tangible. Not everyone is going to be able to hear differences or have a revealing enough system to expose those difference. If you tried x amount of cables and they don't matter to you, great....you'll save yourself some dough, and we would respect that opinion. However, because that's your experience doesn't mean it will be others, and the same goes for me or anyone else around here. Which in the end, it comes back to.....try for yourself and see.....which is all we encourage people to do.

If you can't understand all that, maybe you should take up gardening as a hobby. I hear the Rose Bush forum gets pretty lively.

WilliamM2

tonyb wrote: »

Now, since you claim you get crickets from me, even though I don't recall you ever asking the question, I'll humor you with an answer.

Apparently can't read either. You answered a question I never asked. Here, try to read a little slower this time:

Why not address the fact that your side still has no evidence? You've had decades to come up with something...anything. Talk about crickets.

tonyb

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Again, you claim one side has no experience. I say I have more experience than you, I've listened for differences in cables sighted and blind. You haven't.

Your gonna make this a struggle arentcha ? How do you know "I haven't".....unless you asked the question ? Which you have not.....

LOL.....Some people at least know when to stop digging a hole, others not so much.

afterburnt

but tonyb Fords do suck...

WilliamM2

tonyb wrote: »

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Again, you claim one side has no experience. I say I have more experience than you, I've listened for differences in cables sighted and blind. You haven't.

Your gonna make this a struggle arentcha ? How do you know "I haven't".....unless you asked the question ? Which you have not.....

LOL.....Some people at least know when to stop digging a hole, others not so much.

Because you still think you hear differences. You can stop digging now.

F1nut

Why not address the fact that your side still has no evidence? You've had decades to come up with something...anything. Talk about crickets.

Seriously!?! You must have missed all the folks here and elsewhere offering their personal experiences with cables. After all, there is no better evidence than that.

Let me ask you a question. How do you decide on what speakers, amps, CD players, etc. to buy?

ZLTFUL

xcapri79 wrote: »

William you hit the bull's eye.

First, who is to know who has and who doesn't have the right experience. Lots of experience doing the wrong thing is poor experience.

Following the debunked audio myths and claiming this is great experience is sort of like the alcoholic claiming to have great experience with whiskey.

There is a lot to experience in this hobby when it comes to digital and analog source material, source equipment, preamps, processors, amplifiers, speakers and room treatments. Once one has found reasonably priced and competent interconnects and speaker wire, those items are least interesting. As Mantis put it.

mantis wrote: »

I hate to tell you bro that with a cable that is the goal. You personally can have all the issues you want with it but once a cable transfers the signal correctly , there is NOTHING more is going to do. Thats it man , thats the goal. That is exactly why we wire nuts are trying to achieve.
The real question is as follows,
What does it take to get the signal correctly? Thats the million dollar question my brother. When you have been in the business as long as I have , I have asked this question to so many engineers from so many different companies. Some will tell you the truth and some will white lie to protect their vested interest in many of these wire companies.
I will have to speak up and say MOST high end companies wires are nothing but snake oil, fancy wire wrapped up in very pretty jackets. I hate that I know that but in many ways I'm glad I do.

Another chance to prove that xcapri only reads what he wants to read and takes things out of context.

Had you posted the whole quote in context instead of picking and choosing what you wanted to highlight, you would have never used it for an example. But I went ahead and took care of posting the entire comment and the quote in context for you. More proof positive that you're so full of **** that your eyes are most likely brown.

mantis Posts: 13,729
May 21

tonyb wrote: »
» show previous quotes

Well I'll be a ****...Ray.....you DO have a sense of humor. LMAO !!

I personally also take issue with the adage that "once a cable transfers the signal correctly, nothing else can be done."

Think about that. That insinuates that all cable manufacturers are selling you broken or sub par cables in their lower lines. Does that mean an AQ Evergreen cable doesn't transfer the signal correctly compared to the SKY, or other top AQ IC. ? Of course not, which is why that saying is bunk in my book.

Too many variables goes into a cable to just say all wire is wire, any SQ improvements perceived is placebo, or other such nonsense.

The way I see it DK, Acoustic zen owes me a boat load of hookers and kickbacks. Same with Analysis Plus, Steve McCormack, Legacy Audio. I simply don't recall anyone who we've suggested better cables to that came back and said they couldn't hear a difference....not one in over 15 years on this forum. Granted, interconnects are easier to hear differences than with digital cables, but it's still there.

I hate to tell you bro that with a cable that is the goal. You personally can have all the issues you want with it but once a cable transfers the signal correctly , there is NOTHING more is going to do. Thats it man , thats the goal. That is exactly why we wire nuts are trying to achieve.
The real question is as follows,
What does it take to get the signal correctly? Thats the million dollar question my brother. When you have been in the business as long as I have , I have asked this question to so many engineers from so many different companies. Some will tell you the truth and some will white lie to protect their vested interest in many of these wire companies.
I will have to speak up and say MOST high end companies wires are nothing but snake oil, fancy wire wrapped up in very pretty jackets. I hate that I know that but in many ways I'm glad I do. There is only so many things you can do with a conductor but its the care and engineering behind it that really makes the differences we all seek and are willing to pay top dollar for.
I have been reviewing cables on this forum for decades. If you have read any of them, I study them more mentally then most. When I discovered differences in the way cables perform in my systems and the systems I Install Professionally, I had to learn everything I could from anyone who would teach me.
If you remember, once I went Audioquest, I kinda started to fall off the mental path of keep searching for the perfect conductor of any kind. Once I learned from some of the companies I have been to over the decades and the quality that goes into some and not into others, I found a home where much truth be told.
Listen , you will never ever find cheap cables in my systems ever. They are compromised due to quality of materials used. Most of them are not built to spec and many of them fail.
What I also find is that most on this forum who likes to research wire and everything seem to not understand the fundamental goals of each conductor. There is a lot of truth in many of the things that have been posted on this thread about cables even without which I believe no experience from the poster. But some of the information that has been presented has a lot of truth to it. Can be very misleading but if you are a student of the game you must at least listen.

I'm just gonna give you an example of a truth that can be taken the wrong way ok.

Body Builders Eat eggs.
Eggs are baby chickens.
Therefore Body Builders eat babies.

Can you see where I'm going with this?
Anyway I also have to say it's mental to argue with anyone about wire who has a opinion by just reading about it online and not testing it for themselves or learning everything before forming such strong opinions either way.
Look at it this way, if you find value in your cable choices and your very happy with what they do, then that game is done. Down the road you might want to try others and see things but at the end of the day when you sit in front of your rig and it makes you smile weather you have snake oil cables , correctly built cables or something in-between, thats really all that matters.

I honestly also think there is NO END to this conversation ever. As long as someone agrees and disagrees , this debate will never ever have an ending.
I personally lost the desire to make anyone see the light or convince them of what I have learned , found etc. I'll tell you my professional opinion and what you do with it is your business. You can believe in my or not , for me it doesn't matter. You do what you want with my info, if you ask I will tell but thats it.

What Mantis says is that yes, there are snake oil cables out there but not all cables are snake oil. Failing at reading comprehension again, I see.
The best part about all of this is I keep wanting to make you look like a fool but you do it all by yourself without any effort from me.

ZLTFUL

kevintomb wrote: »

After reading through this thread, I started to think about...

Confirmation bias:

Confirmation bias refers to a type of selective thinking whereby one tends to notice and to look for what confirms one's own beliefs, and to ignore, not look for, degrade, or undervalue the relevance of what contradicts one's beliefs.

Confirmation bias is a double edged sword, Kevin. It proves you wrong just as much as it proves your opponent wrong. You can find a supporting argument for and against anything and all it does is add more fuel to the fire.
As we have discussed in private, all you can do is eliminate as many of the bias causing variables as possible and even if you can still prove your argument, someone will always come along and disagree with you.

You can hear a difference? It's because you can see the cables.
It was a double blind test? It's because they said they were switching cables.
Nobody ever said they were changing cables? Well, you heard a difference because the music stopped and then started again.

Point being, this argument isn't about who is right or wrong. The argument is about some weird crusade to save people from themselves. When ultimately the questions shouldn't be do they or don't they make a difference but instead should be "Does it sound good to YOU?"
That is the only part that matters at all and everyone else can go pound sand if it doesn't sound good to them because it isn't their bloody money!

WilliamM2

[quote="F1nut;2139981

Seriously!?! You must have missed all the folks here and elsewhere offering their personal experiences with cables. After all, there is no better evidence than that.

So I guess there's no better evidence than this:

http://www.mindbodyhomeopathichealth.com/page19.php

http://www.billgrayhomeopathy.com/testimonials/

Let me ask you a question. How do you decide on what speakers, amps, CD players, etc. to buy?

I look for the features I want, and then I listen. But speakers don't all sound the same, and Harmon (and others) have actually provided the evidence.

They have even demonstrated that better measuring speakers are preferred by most listeners when blind.

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=5276

Polkie2009

I used to be someone who didn't much think cables would make a difference til I read more and more posts from people here who actually tried__ upgrading their speaker wires and finding out they did__ make a difference. I finally bought some MIT Terminator 2's speaker cables from a fellow CP member here and found they made a noticeable__improvement (especially in the bass) over the 16 gauge home depot wire I had been running to my mains, SDA/SRS'2.

Polkie2009

ken brydson wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

And yet, you've never tried cables in the several hundred to thousand $ plus range, but act like you know all about them. Oh SNAP caught with your pants down again.

Ken, this pic is hilarious !

ZLTFUL

You're using homeopathy to support your argument? Does your brain even exist in the real world?
You mock people about the placebo effect and then you argue it using homeopathy which is ALL about placebo.

Maybe you should come back again later on when you want to have a serious conversation...you know...about how the stars influence your love life and putting a crystal on your forehead will cure your migraines. *rollseyes*

And this is the person you have decided to throw your hat in the ring with @xcapri79 ?
I understand it all so much more now. You're in a mental institution and being allowed to use the computer. Sudden clarity.

F1nut

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I look for the features I want, and then I listen. But speakers don't all sound the same, and Harmon (and others) have actually provided the evidence.

So, no specs or bench test results. Got it.

They have even demonstrated that better measuring speakers are preferred by most listeners when blind.

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=5276

All I was able to read is the following;

Precision measurements on loudspeakers have been possible for some time now, and over the years, various views of their importance have developed as a result of accumulated experience and scientific investigation. A survey of the literature reveals areas of agreement and disagreement among workers. There is also evidence of geographic concentrations of loudspeaker designers and reviewers who appear to share attitudes toward specific measurements. Part 1 attempts to consolidate published opinion on loudspeaker measurements in preparation for Part 2, which presents the results of some current research on the subject.

In reference to the first part I put in bold. Do you think that the major cable companies don't do the same? In reference to the second part I put in bold. Yet their speakers all sound different? Got it.

I'm reminded of a designer who made a speaker with a ruler flat frequency response. After which proclaimed it sounded like ****.

gudnoyez

Polkie2009 wrote: »

I used to be someone who didn't much think cables would make a difference til I read more and more posts from people here who actually tried__ upgrading their speaker wires and finding out they did__ make a difference. I finally bought some MIT Terminator 2's speaker cables from a fellow CP member here and found they made a noticeable__improvement (especially in the bass) over the 16 gauge home depot wire I had been running to my mains, SDA/SRS'2.

Got my MIT Terminator 2s hooked up to the 2.3tls (Z edition) and the MIT Terminator 2 interconnects hooked up to my Marantz CDP. Some nice cables you got there Polkie2009.

No scientific research needed to tell the difference between the MIT's and the 14 guage Monoprice wires and stock interconnects I was running. The difference is night and day.

afterburnt

F1nut wrote: »

Why not address the fact that your side still has no evidence? You've had decades to come up with something...anything. Talk about crickets.

Seriously!?! You must have missed all the folks here and elsewhere offering their personal experiences with cables. After all, there is no better evidence than that.

Let me ask you a question. How do you decide on what speakers, amps, CD players, etc. to buy?

I dont know about him but I just ask you guys and then I get really confused %^)

Polkie2009

gudnoyez wrote: »

Polkie2009 wrote: »

I used to be someone who didn't much think cables would make a difference til I read more and more posts from people here who actually tried__ upgrading their speaker wires and finding out they did__ make a difference. I finally bought some MIT Terminator 2's speaker cables from a fellow CP member here and found they made a noticeable__improvement (especially in the bass) over the 16 gauge home depot wire I had been running to my mains, SDA/SRS'2.

Got my MIT Terminator 2s hooked up to the 2.3tls (Z edition) and the MIT Terminator 2 interconnects hooked up to my Marantz CDP. Some nice cables you got there Polkie2009.

No scientific research needed to tell the difference between the MIT's and the 14 guage Monoprice wires and stock interconnects I was running. The difference is night and day.

+1000 Steve! Got mine from a fellow awesome CP member Grimmace!

WilliamM2

ZLTFUL wrote: »

You're using homeopathy to support your argument? Does your brain even exist in the real world?
You mock people about the placebo effect and then you argue it using homeopathy which is ALL about placebo.

So you missed the point completely. Not surprised. Homeopathy has no evidence, only anecdotal claims. Just like cables. I don't believe in homeopathy either. Are you really this stupid?

So as you are so fond of saying, just STFU.

WilliamM2

F1nut wrote: »

I'm reminded of a designer who made a speaker with a ruler flat frequency response. After which proclaimed it sounded like ****.

I've seen this claim many times. Any link to this mythical "ruler flat" response speaker? Or is it just more made up claims from the MIT shill?

gudnoyez

[/quote] +1000 Steve! Got mine from a fellow awesome CP member Grimmace!

Got my cables from Mr George Daniels off the FM, the interconnects I found on E-Bay

F1nut

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I've seen this claim many times. Any link to this mythical "ruler flat" response speaker?

Feel free to do a search, it's one thing you're actually good at.

Or is it just more made up claims from the MIT shill?

So, you're saying that all the guys that reviewed MIT cables here were a shill? Got it.

WilliamM2

F1nut wrote: »

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I've seen this claim many times. Any link to this mythical "ruler flat" response speaker?

Feel free to do a search, it's one thing you're actually good at.

Or is it just more made up claims from the MIT shill?

So, you're saying that all the guys that reviewed MIT cables here were a shill? Got it.

So you did just make it up. Got it.

F1nut

You should know by now that I don't kowtow to requests.

It is odd that you would even challenge that statement as by your own link it is obvious there is no mention of a preference for a ruler flat response because if there was I know you would have mentioned it.

WilliamM2

I've never heard of a speaker that had a ruler flat frequency response in a listening room. But hey, it's your story.