Dear god help me

sandworms

DSkip wrote: »

Gorgeous setup man. What I see is a ton of reflective surfaces with very little to absorb that energy. Even the leather couch isn't helping your situation. I'd suggest throwing some thick blankets on the couches and see if that does anything to help the sound - you might do the same for that coffee table. I'm not saying to do it permanently, but as a trial.

My CD remark - you should try physical media and see if it sounds any better if you haven't already. While you may have the files saved to an uncompressed file, your streaming software might be compressing it to make it easier on the network.

How do I know if my streaming software is compressing?

sandworms

tonyb wrote: »

Here's my take on your situation.

The room....if anything seems to me to be on the over dampened side of things. Carpet....curtains in the back are absorbing the sound and not allowing reflections, lots of furniture. Add a layed back speaker and your sound may be too soft.

As already suggested, a good pre will add to your pleasure.

The most glaring thing I can see wrong, is your cables. From your SB to the OPPO, use a better digital cable besides the generic one your using. Find yourself a Blackcat Veloce used for under 80 bucks.

The AQ King Cobra's and Speaker cables to me are not a good match for what you have either. To my ears they are kind of lifeless in the mids and vocals. Try a cable with some more energy to them, Like MIT....maybe some PNF's or Harmonic technology, Reality cables, even the Kimber hero's and 4tc speaker cables to my ears have better energy than AQ.

None of this means anything though if the SF sound isn't for you, and it very well may not be. So before you start swapping stuff out, throw a pair of Polks up there, even if they are bookies and see how you like the sound. If the sound is still flat, then it's most likely gear related. If it sounds way better, try a different speaker, a more lively speaker, which I think is needed for that room anyway. A pair of Legacy Classics is more lively and may be a good fit for that room.

Thanks Tony, I will take all into consideration, I have often wondered if my cabling is causing an issue. I may also take a ride around town and take a listen to some other set ups at the hi fi shops here, after it stops snowing .... maybe Juneish

deronb1

I run an onk and i agree, the room correction they employ is top notch. The EQ sound for me is better. Pure direct is ok for some things. You obviously have heard the sound you are looking for before or you would have no reference.

What was the combo that did it for ya? As we all know, its subjective and the room, pre, or whatever may or not be the problem. I would suggest going back to squares.

Gotta start with speakers that are comfortable on your ears and move you. Those speakers will be powered by something that obviously has good synergy. So there is two links in the chain.

sandworms

I use my squeezebox as a source, and all my files are organized in my zune program. I don't know if the squeezebox is reading "my music" folders on the drive or from the zune. I have no separate program like Amari or media monkey et al. Even with that said, my sacd disc's sound like crap so it's not just the streaming end I have problems listening to. P3 has no ht bypass, I already owned one

TNHNDYMAN

I had a P3 as well. Just tried it out for awhile to see how the new parasound "sound" was. Liked it but need the HT bypass as well. For now I am still using an older (but probably higher sound quality) Parasound P/LD 2000 as my pre for 2 channel listening.

I have to swap speaker cables out from the avr and the 2 ch amp to go back and forth between HT and 2 ch listening. It's a real pain in the butt, hence my desire to potentially lose some sound quality by going with a P5 but gain the usability and feature set to make life easier in a 2 ch system. I'd also like to test the DAC out on the P5 and would probably then sell my Peachtree DACiT for convenience as well.

As far as streaming, I use JRiver Media Center 19 and have been very happy. I don't have any experience with the Dune so no suggestions there.

Joey_V

If upgrading the upstreams does not work, I honestly don't feel like it's the room like Jesse (F1).

It might just be the speakers.

Also, regarding the TV, heavy blanket on it for serious listening sessions should do the trick.

Btw, your speakers and room looks real nice.

I have heard the Venere's several times.... not bright, but definitely not the most open sound either... I wonder if that's what you're describing, a lack of detail but I'm not sure what you mean by "run out of the room".

audiocr381ve

sandworms wrote: »

I use my squeezebox as a source, and all my files are organized in my zune program. I don't know if the squeezebox is reading "my music" folders on the drive or from the zune. I have no separate program like Amari or media monkey et al. Even with that said, my sacd disc's sound like crap so it's not just the streaming end I have problems listening to. P3 has no ht bypass, I already owned one

I can't speak to the SACD situation but I will say this.

I was about to return $3K worth of new gear a couple of weeks ago because I wasn't hearing an improvement with it. I emailed John Darko of digitalaudioreview.net basically begging for help figuring it all out. He suggested removing the Squeezebox Touch from the system as the new gear was starting to reveal it as the weak link in the chain. My goodness was he spot on. I had the exact same feelings you had about your sound now with my new gear. Try running your computer straight into your DAC. Made a world of difference for me and literally took my system to a level that it has never been.

For all of you running a SBT, please remove it and see if you get the same results I got. You'll need quality gear downstream to hear the night and day difference that I did but it's worth a shot.

For me it goes like this:

Macbook Pro > DAC (Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2) > Tube Preamp > Mono Amps > Speakers

For you I'd recommend:

Computer > Oppo 105 DAC via USB > Amp > Speakers

I was harping on more room treatments but I'll also say a great tube preamp would change the game as well. Good luck!

audiocr381ve

DSkip wrote: »

The room is an issue. Saying it isn't is a little shocking to me. All that high frequency energy bouncing all around the room is goin to kill imaging and details. His room is ok for midrange and bass, but not for that treble.

I also agree that the preamp is a great suggestion. I don't expect the onkyo/oppo/venere combo to be that great. That's a lot of neutral to bright gear thrown together. Everything I see points to that top end.

Huge +1

audiocr381ve

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I think we can all agree that a dedicated preamp would be a very good place to start...

Another +1 lol.

tonyb

audiocr381ve wrote: »

I was about to return $3K worth of new gear a couple of weeks ago because I wasn't hearing an improvement with it. I emailed John Darko of digitalaudioreview.net basically begging for help figuring it all out. He suggested removing the Squeezebox Touch from the system as the new gear was starting to reveal it as the weak link in the chain. My goodness was he spot on. I had the exact same feelings you had about your sound now with my new gear. Try running your computer straight into your DAC. Made a world of difference for me and literally took my system to a level that it has never been.

Dude, spot on bro. I've been saying this for years. Once your system gets to a certain level of transparency, the weakest link becomes obvious....and annoying. These small wireless devices like SB or Sonos are ok for low to mid-fi systems, but once you start piecing together a good system their shortfalls are all the more front and center.

Sandworms,
Don't fret over this so much. We all go threw the same chain of events you are experiencing. Room....wife issues....ha, you should see how I have my speakers set up. Blasphemy I tell ya.

You have to be willing though to experiment some, piece by piece, cable by cable. Start with the pre amp as many of us suggested. Though I may also agree with others too, your speaks may not just be for you. SF speakers, to my ears anyway, are not for rock music. They do great on jazz and classical, but never heard one that was exceptional on rock.

Now that I think about it, if this were me, my plan of attack would be speakers first. Since this is for a HT/2 Channel system I assume, and with your amp, try some RTIA's like the 7's up front. LSIM's even better, depending on the old wallet of course. Next some midline MIT cables. Point being, you need a more lively speaker/cable combo that will give you more detail and midbass slam. Legacy Classics or Sig 3's would also give you more of everything you seek.

Joey_V

I agree with some of the posts above - you gotta either look at first reflection points AND you gotta ensure that the source is up to par. If you have a subpar source (i.e. SBox), you are basically amplifying something that is subpar.

What I learned over the years is that you gotta really get the source up there otherwise it's a fruitless endeavor. Why magnify a flaw?

vc69

I wonder if those speakers wouldn't benefit from less toe-in. I'm not familiar with them. Echoing what many others have said, get that AVR out of the 2-channel loop completely.

steveinaz

I know your pain. Usually when your "stuck" it's the speakers. I'm just saying. Took me about 8 years to finally get it right. Just because a speaker is expensive and highly praised by others, doesn't mean its right for you.

tonyb

steveinaz wrote: »

I know your pain. Usually when your "stuck" it's the speakers. I'm just saying. Took me about 8 years to finally get it right. Just because a speaker is expensive and highly praised by others, doesn't mean its right for you.

Well said Steve, can also be said for any piece of gear really.