Dear god help me

sandworms

Ok guys, I've been a member several years and in that time have taken advice and read many posts on set up, components etc... I thought I had built a decent mid fi system, but the more I listen to my 2channel the more I hate how it sounds. We're talkin a lot of money (for me) thrown into trying to get that "sound" that gets me. Now I admit defeat, I just can't get it right, so please tell me what I'm doing wrong, tell me my system is good and I have something set up wrong. Tell me my system sucks and I need to start from scratch, just tell me how to fix this flat sounding, garbled, lifeless mess. I'm sure you need a ton of info so fire the questions away. Hopefully my signature has my gear listed.
I currently have the onkyo 1010 as my avr or hub, pre, what have you. Today I tried hooking my oppo direct to my amp, listening to rushs hemispheres sacd, no clarity, no life, no Neil peart tickling symbols, just a garbled mess. Don't get me wrong, there are times when it sounds pretty good, movies are usually quite impressive, but two channel is horrible. I'll let the dialogue begin, don't be afraid to flame, I still think of myself as a newb
Thanks

F1nut

I'd look at your AVR first. For 2 channel music they are not the best choice. Look for a dedicated pre amp with an HT pass through.That said, have you played around with the settings?

nooshinjohn

Agree... start with removing the AVR from your music. I would also look for an HT bypass capable two channel pre and a quality two channel amp for running the mains and you should be ok.

brgman

Do you want the AVR for surround etc? Or are you mainly using it as a 2 channel?
Did you run analog to the 1010 or digital from the oppo?
If dig you are having the inferior DAC in the 1010 convert the signal.
You want to let the oppo convert and run it thru the 1010 in DIRECT signal if it has that setting.

deronb1

Have you recently swapped speakers? Or have you ever liked the sonus faber sound?

chandler9a

For me, I can get great sound with decent gear running ( my stuff is mid fi), but if the room is not good, the sound is not good. That would be my first look.

And I agree with the above requests, AVR's can be a little harsh. I noticed a huge difference when I switched to a separate pre, and it wasn't even a very expensive one, at first.

I hope you can find the good sound you are looking for, and I think you will...

audiocr381ve

chandler9a wrote: »

For me, I can get great sound with decent gear running ( my stuff is mid fi), but if the room is not good, the sound is not good. That would be my first look.

And I agree with the above requests, AVR's can be a little harsh. I noticed a huge difference when I switched to a separate pre, and it wasn't even a very expensive one, at first.

I hope you can find the good sound you are looking for, and I think you will...

I absolutely agree with you, Aaron. The absorption panels I made brought a warmth to my system that the greatest tube amp or pre could never bring. It was that dramatic. I'd also say playing with your listening position would yield another dramatic change.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-242-acoustic-panel/

TNHNDYMAN

Room treatments and a Parasound P5 would be a good starting point is my guess. Some nice sources and pieces of gear in your sig so I'm thinking the room and using the AVR as a pre are your weakest links.

I'm in the same boat trying to use a dual HT/2ch system in the same room and it does cause complications. The P5 to me looks like the most reasonable bang for the buck piece of gear out there to combine two systems on the fly. Good luck.

Dennis Gardner

From what I read, he doesn't have the AVR in the loop. He tried running directly from the OPPO to his amp. Does the OPPO have volume controls to allow this or is he calling his AVR his amp. In one sentence he calls it his preamp, and the next his amp? Clarify please....

audiocr381ve

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

From what I read, he doesn't have the AVR in the loop. He tried running directly from the OPPO to his amp. Does the OPPO have volume controls to allow this or is he calling his AVR his amp. In one sentence he calls it his preamp, and the next his amp? Clarify please....

Dennis, he has an external amp. The Oppo 105D has volume control.

He has tried:

Oppo 105D > AVR > External Amp

and

Oppo 105 > External Amp

He doesn't like the results of either.

It's definitely not your Oppo 105D that's causing issues. I'd say it's a little on the lean side but definitely not problematic.

tonyb

What amp are we talking, what speakers, what cables.....more info is needed to help the man.

TNHNDYMAN

Based on sig, it looks like a Parasound HCA 1500 and assorted Audioquest cables/interconnects. I don't think the gear is the issue except for using the Onkyo as a pre, but without more info on the room ect, it's hard to determine the issues.

tonyb

TNHNDYMAN wrote: »

Based on sig, it looks like a Parasound HCA 1500 and assorted Audioquest cables/interconnects. I don't think the gear is the issue except for using the Onkyo as a pre, but without more info on the room ect, it's hard to determine the issues.

Gotcha...and agree on the Onkyo. Also, those AQ cables aren't doing him any favors. The SF sound isn't for everyone, plus I don't think the Parasound is a good match up for those speakers.

Personally, I don't find the SF sound all that appealing until you get into their upper lines anyway and even then it can be very system dependent.

Is he using the Oppo's dac or the one in the receiver ? Whats the source ? Computer...cdp...the Oppo ?

tonyb

Nope, hadn't had a chance to get an ear on the Venere's yet. Going off my perceptions of the Amanti, Cremona, and Grands.

Maybe if the OP would chime back in and discuss the sound he likes or is looking for, gave us some more info as to the gear/cables/room, we could help him. Otherwise we are all just pissin' in the wind here.

Polkie2009

tonyb wrote: »

Nope, hadn't had a chance to get an ear on the Venere's yet. Going off my perceptions of the Amanti, Cremona, and Grands.

Maybe if the OP would chime back in and discuss the sound he likes or is looking for, gave us some more info as to the gear/cables/room, we could help him. Otherwise we are all just pissin' in the wind here.

+100 Agree, OP needs to chime back in, so much more info needed here to be able to help him. He mentioned he tried running his Oppo 105D as a preamp to his power amp and he didn't care for it? I wonder if he followed all the instructions in the Oppo manual about doing this and the procedures for setting the speaker distances and levels etc. As mentioned before,what cables were used?

sandworms

Ok guys, just got home from work so give me a few to work on more details, so far the input is fantastic, pics coming

F1nut

It's definitely not your Oppo 105D that's causing issues. I'd say it's a little on the lean side but definitely not problematic.

It all starts with the source and if it's on the lean side like other Oppo's I've heard, that would be problematic for me.

nooshinjohn

F1nut wrote: »

It's definitely not your Oppo 105D that's causing issues. I'd say it's a little on the lean side but definitely not problematic.

It all starts with the source and if it's on the lean side like other Oppo's I've heard, that would be problematic for me.

Once again, I agree Jesse. I tried my Oppo BDP-93 as an SACD, but that lasted all of a week before I started looking elsewhere.

sandworms

let me start with my exact set up
main source- squeezebox touch fed with the highest res audio I can get
- this is usually ripped cd's to my computer and using the zune program to organize it all. when I look at the properties of each song I am getting up to 1057 kpbs and I try to get all my music with the best res I can. I do have several selections from HD tracks as well
The squeezebox is connected to my Oppo with a no name coaxial digital cable
The Oppo is wired with a Shunyata venom power cable, and I use Audioquest Columbia rca's to my Onkyo ( though, as I said, I did try direct connect to my Parasound with no audible improvement )
The Onkyo is connected to my Sonus faber's with Audioquest CV-8 single biwire cables ( As is my center ) The avr is powered with a Shunyata venom pc
The Onkyo is feeding the Parasound with Audioquest King Cobra rca's
The Parasound is using a Pangea AC9 pc
to be cont.....

sandworms

sandworms

F1nut

That's a nice looking room with plenty of damping, so I think you rule that part out. Is everything including your amp running through the APC?

sandworms

I need to add guys, I have had a pre amp of presumably "better" quality. At one time I had a Parasound p3 hooked up to some LSi9's, just not in the same room I have pictured. Even with that set-up I was short of the 2 channel "sound" I was looking for. Please be patient with me while I respond to each suggestion, this will probably be a long journey

sandworms

F1nut wrote: »

I'd look at your AVR first. For 2 channel music they are not the best choice. Look for a dedicated pre amp with an HT pass through.That said, have you played around with the settings?

I have tried what I believe every possible tweak possible in the settings on each component. I still am not getting the detail I know should be in my music, and when I tell you my money feels wasted on sacd's I'm not kidding. I believe one should be able to pick out every subtle nuance in the composition, hear the strings being strummed or plucked, hear a snare drum, hi hat, tom tom, crash symbol. Be able to separate each vocalist, you know, feel the emotion of the piece!!

nooshinjohn

Hate to say it but it is possible that the Sonus Faber sound may not be to your liking. You may also be a great candidate for one of these.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-pass-labs-x1-dual-chassis-preamplifier-2015-02-01-preamplifiers-60521-oak-brook-il

These two little boxes provided the breakthrough I was seeking in my rig. The only piece that will see an upgrade at some point is my turntable and phono pre.

sandworms

deronb1 wrote: »

Have you recently swapped speakers? Or have you ever liked the sonus faber sound?

I've had these ( All polks )
Monitor 50's
Monitor 70's
RTi10's
LSi7's
LSi9's
and I wanted to try something different so I went with the Sonus Fabers based on reviews, I looked at Psb's, Monitor Audios, Golden Ears, Aperions and a few more but all on reputation and reviews, none of these I was able to audition except the Golden ears but couldn't get over the ugly sock cover

sandworms

chandler9a wrote: »

For me, I can get great sound with decent gear running ( my stuff is mid fi), but if the room is not good, the sound is not good. That would be my first look.

And I agree with the above requests, AVR's can be a little harsh. I noticed a huge difference when I switched to a separate pre, and it wasn't even a very expensive one, at first.

I hope you can find the good sound you are looking for, and I think you will...

Thanks Chandler, I hope to find the sound I'm looking for, music is my obsession and I MUST find the sound that I know others are hearing

F1nut

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Hate to say it but it is possible that the Sonus Faber may not be to your liking.

That very well might be. I have not heard that model, but based on all the others I have heard they are a bit laid back.

Sandworms, have you tried the RTiA3's in the front?

sandworms

TNHNDYMAN wrote: »

Room treatments and a Parasound P5 would be a good starting point is my guess. Some nice sources and pieces of gear in your sig so I'm thinking the room and using the AVR as a pre are your weakest links.

I'm in the same boat trying to use a dual HT/2ch system in the same room and it does cause complications. The P5 to me looks like the most reasonable bang for the buck piece of gear out there to combine two systems on the fly. Good luck.

That ( the room ) may be my downfall, unfortunately it is the only room I have, and it is a mix use room with my HT. If I have to get a pre to get the sound I want so be it, I just can't believe it will be that drastically different than my avr. The oppo and the Onkyo each have well regarded dacs

sandworms

tonyb wrote: »

TNHNDYMAN wrote: »

Based on sig, it looks like a Parasound HCA 1500 and assorted Audioquest cables/interconnects. I don't think the gear is the issue except for using the Onkyo as a pre, but without more info on the room ect, it's hard to determine the issues.

Gotcha...and agree on the Onkyo. Also, those AQ cables aren't doing him any favors. The SF sound isn't for everyone, plus I don't think the Parasound is a good match up for those speakers.

Personally, I don't find the SF sound all that appealing until you get into their upper lines anyway and even then it can be very system dependent.

Is he using the Oppo's dac or the one in the receiver ? Whats the source ? Computer...cdp...the Oppo ?

See previous post, unfortunately no vinyl at this time

nooshinjohn

sandworms wrote: »

TNHNDYMAN wrote: »

Room treatments and a Parasound P5 would be a good starting point is my guess. Some nice sources and pieces of gear in your sig so I'm thinking the room and using the AVR as a pre are your weakest links.

I'm in the same boat trying to use a dual HT/2ch system in the same room and it does cause complications. The P5 to me looks like the most reasonable bang for the buck piece of gear out there to combine two systems on the fly. Good luck.

That ( the room ) may be my downfall, unfortunately it is the only room I have, and it is a mix use room with my HT. If I have to get a pre to get the sound I want so be it, I just can't believe it will be that drastically different than my avr. The oppo and the Onkyo each have well regarded dacs

It will be as dramatic as night and day... After you get the right one in the mix, you will find yourself going through every recording you have as if you have never heard them before. My Pass did that for me, and my audio experience has been completely fulfilling ever since it came out of the box.