Digital Interconnect Cables - What's Your Experience?

DarqueKnight

Just so we are clear: I am asking for the experiences of those who have tried various digital cables and what their audible (or inaudible) performance results were. This is not the place to parrot what you *think* about digital cable manufacturer claims.

Over the past few months I have tried various digital coax, AES/EBU, and USB cables ranging in price from $0 (USB cables that came with hard drive enclosures) to several hundred dollars. These cables were used between a Bryston BDP-1 digital file player and three different DACs.

There were differences in cable materials and construction quality, but I didn't hear a difference between "ordinary" digital cables costing $0 to a few dollars and "audiophile" digital cables costing hundreds of dollars.

One interesting example is the designer of the PS Audio DirectStream DAC uses generic computer grade USB cables and says there isn't any need for anything more than that. The CEO of PS Audio says he hears differences among USB cables and uses a $300 USB cable made by Paul Pang Audio.

seabeerob213

I've tried the ethereal they sell on accessories4less, great for the price I paid, and @zingo made are great, two different cables, four cables total, gonna have to ask him for rthe specifics. They replaced generic cables so I can't give you the specifics right now, but all of them were audibly better than what I was using, which were some cheap freebie cables that come with gear like DVD and VCR, and then some monoprice and another decent quality cheapo off amazon(which themselves were a great improvement over those freebies). Can't get all technical with how they wer e better, they just sounded all around better. Sorry I can't be more specific, but every time I have upgraded any cable, I have noticed improvement.

tonyb

I've tried about 6 different digital coax cables. While the sound differences are slighter than regular analog RCA cables, still noticeable to me. I'm using an Audio Metallurgy GA-0 and previously had a Blackcat Veloce which both had a more analog sound to them. Wanting to try Analysis plus digital crystal oval cable soon.

As a side note, I had 2 members here make me a digital coax cable, both from different wires. Both sounded extremely different and neither sounded as good as the Blackcat or AM.

steveinaz

I still think the belden 1694A from blue jeans is a very neutral/excellent performer, not to mention it's inexpensive price. I also like the the good 'ol DH Labs D-75. I have never had the desire to replace either.

BlueFox

I have a slight bit of tinnitous in my left ear, and I found it being irritated with some CD files seeming to have a high pitch noise. This was with my Bryston BDP-1 and BDA-2 DAC, and using a Shunyata AES Python digital, with a Zitron Cobra power cord on each unit. Because of this noise I bought an Auralic Vega DAC since it has three digital filters for PCM. While that tamed the irritation, the noise was still there in the background. Later I upgraded to the Shunyata AES Anaconda digital, and the noise disappeared. Plus, it just sounded better overall, and it is a thinner, more easily maneuverable cable. After I upgraded to a Shunyata Alpha Digital power cord on the BDP-1 I couldn't believe the jump in sound quality, and reduced noise. Now I can easily listen to music and it overrides the tinnitus, not amplify it, even at 90+ DB levels.

polkfarmboy

Ok if you do not hear a diff then somethings is wrong in your system. Pop in something like a Pangea pure silver usb and a generic on and you will notice the pangea has way more detail and brightens up the details alot!! Its not like you cant even hear the diff as its so in your face with the diff.

DarqueKnight

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Ok if you do not hear a diff then somethings is wrong in your system.

Maybe, but this is the same system that allows me to hear

1. Differences in component isolation feet.
2. Differences in power cords.
3. Differences in crossover resistors, capacitors, and inductors.
4. Differences in crossover circuit boards.
5. Differences in crossover isolation.
6. Differences in driver vibration damping.
7. Differences in speaker jumper wires.
8. Differences in analog interconnects.
9. Differences in analog speaker cables.
10. Differences in internal speaker wire.
11. Differences in component isolation platforms.

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Pop in something like a Pangea pure silver usb and a generic on and you will notice the pangea has way more detail and brightens up the details alot!! Its not like you cant even hear the diff as its so in your face with the diff.

I'll do another round of digital cable testing with the next DAC candidate.

I currently use a Pangea USB-PC ($35) between the BDP-1 and CD 306 PV. The Pangea was compared to:

1. Generic computer grade USB cable #1 (free).
2. Generic computer grade USB cable #2 (free).
3. AudioQuest Coffee ($279).
4. AudioQuest Carbon ($129).
5. AudioQuest Forest ($35).

The Pangea didn't sound any different than any of the other cables. I kept it because it has better connectors that have a more snug fit. I also liked the construction quality of the Pangea compared to the generics and to the AQ cables.

My audio system has a lot of vibration abatement and is fed very low noise power. It's possible that I might notice a difference in digital cables if my system had less mechanical and electrical noise abatement.

polkfarmboy

Thats not the silver pangea usb your using thats the cheap silver plated version thats garbage in my opnion and listening tests. I am not even going to say anything bad about the Audioquest usb's as it would hurt alot of peoples feelings on here.

I dont know whats the deal DQ as your usually on the money but this time I think hmm somethings wrong. I think you need to get some better usb cords in that system as you have two brands there that I see. I am not getting into a big I tried this and this but that pangea silver usb can roll with the big boy uber expensive ones and I recommend it to everyone thats not made of money.

brgman

Also using Pangea from NAS to Benchmark HGC.Great construction compared to AQ and cheaper brands.
Never noticed a difference with these in sound like i do with IC's,speaker cables,PC's,and coax cables.
USB doesnt seem to have the impact other cables have for me.

DarqueKnight

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Thats not the silver pangea usb your using thats the cheap silver plated version thats garbage in my opnion and listening tests.

I know which cable I have. I even posted the Model name and price.

polkfarmboy wrote: »

I am not even going to say anything bad about the Audioquest usb's as it would hurt alot of peoples feelings on here.

Since I specifically asked for people's experiences, and since I specifically said the AQ USB cables didn't sound any better than generics, I don't know why you think anyone's feelings would be hurt.

polkfarmboy wrote: »

I dont know whats the deal DQ as your usually on the money but this time I think hmm somethings wrong. I think you need to get some better usb cords in that system as you have two brands there that I see. I am not getting into a big I tried this and this but that pangea silver usb can roll with the big boy uber expensive ones and I recommend it to everyone thats not made of money.

I sent a detailed email to AudioQuest discussing my experienes with their USB cables and asking for specific performance improvements that one cable is supposed to have over another. I received a long response about how their analog cables perform and a couple of general sentences along the lines of "our digital cables work just like the analog cables".

polkfarmboy

I think that you have a system that eliminates the benefits of what a cheap usb cord can do in my environment. You will have to spend more, on the flip side you may get more benefit than I do out of my $700 retail platinum USB but your never going to notice by asking me about it and you have to go out and test them for yourself if you want answers or insight.

steveinaz

DK, you've got some top-flight equipment; could it be that your digital interface networks are so high standard that digital cables are making less of a difference?

BlueFox

I would stick with the AES digital cable. USB has a reputation for being troublesome, and only very recently have manufactures been getting USB right. The Cary is on the old side so it's USB input might not be up to today's quality. Just guessing here, so could be wrong.

DarqueKnight

polkfarmboy wrote: »

I think that you have a system that eliminates the benefits of what a cheap usb cord can do in my environment. You will have to spend more, on the flip side you may get more benefit than I do out of my $700 retail platinum USB but your never going to notice by asking me about it and you have to go out and test them for yourself if you want answers or insight.

I like doing trials and experimenting, but the experiences of others can provide some insight. Plus, I already said I am going to do another round of digital cable testing with the next DAC candidate.

steveinaz wrote: »

DK, you've got some top-flight equipment; could it be that your digital interface networks are so high standard that digital cables are making less of a difference?

I have wondered about this. I do hear a difference in sound quality among the USB, AES/EBU XLR, and coax outputs of my BDP-1 digital player, with coax sounding the best, then AES/EBU, then USB.

BlueFox wrote: »

I would stick with the AES digital cable. USB has a reputation for being troublesome, and only very recently have manufactures been getting USB right. The Cary is on the old side so it's USB input might not be up to today's quality. Just guessing here, so could be wrong.

The Cary CD 306 SACD player does not have a USB input, only AES and coax. The last two DACs I evaluated, the PS Audio DirectStream and the Cary Audio DMC-600SE, have USB inputs. Most DACs will only accept DSD file input through a USB connection. MSB Technology's DACs will play single and double rate DSD trough any digital connection.

DarqueKnight

steveinaz wrote: »

DK, you've got some top-flight equipment; could it be that your digital interface networks are so high standard that digital cables are making less of a difference?

As I read more about this on other forums (Audio Circle, Computer Audiophile, Audiogon, PS Audio) it appears that, when people are thoughtful enough to describe both the differences in USB cables they hear and the audio equipment they use, the people who are hearing huge differences in USB cables are using laptop computers. The laptop that comes up most often is the Apple Mac Book.

I recall that the same DSD or PCM music file played though the same USB cable sounded a lot different whether it was played by the BDP-1 or my Dell M1330 laptop computer running JRiver Media Center. According to "conventional wisdom", bits are bits and the same file transmitted to a DAC's buffer should sound the same no matter the source.

I did not try different USB cables with the laptop because I never intend to listen to music that way. On my next round of DAC trials, I will test different USB cables with the laptop.

This is beginning to make more sense to me now.

headrott

Sorry DK, I just saw this thread.

I have used multiple AES/EBU cables, multiple coaxial digital cables (including one I made myself), and lastly a number of RJ-45 style (ethernet) cables.

I have not used any USB cables as I don't have the equipment to utilize them. I haven't found the want/need so far I guess.

For the AES/EBU (which is what I am currently using between my transport (Theta Jade)and DAC (self built) I have used the following:

1) Cheap(er) AES/EBU cable made by Atlona. Compared to the other two cables below, everything was not as good including the soundstage, tonality (low, mid, high end), and "speed". Not sure this cable is made any more. I bought it about 15 years ago.

2) Audio Magic Illusion cable. This is the older version with 99.999% pure solid silver conductors (including ground). This cable has an absolutely huge sound stage! The bad thing I found is that in my system, it seemed to be more bright than I liked on the high end, IMO. Retail price was: $749.00

3) Cerious Technologies Nano (liquid ceramic conductors with a pure silver ground) cable. This cable has XShadow XLR plugs on the ends (supposed to be some of the best). This cable allows for an absolutely stellar presentation, tonally. Everything sounds natural without anything being exaggerated in the signal. The sound stage is not as good as the Audio Magic Illusion, but bests the Illusion in every other way, IMO. Retail price was: $750.00

Now for coaxial digital cables I have used the following:

1) Orange colored (RCA ends) coaxial cable that comes with equipment. This cable is pretty simple in it's presentation. It has a narrow sound stage (compared to higher end coaxial cables), the tonality is light on the low end, thin in the midrange, and bright on the top end (although I used some that were "too dull" on the high end).

2) Atlona coaxial digital cable. This coaxial cable was the same as the orange colored RCA ends cable. That is, I couldn't hear a difference. Cost: can't remember for sure, it was about 15 years ago, but something like $35.00.

3) Pepster made coaxial cable. Pepster's coaxial cable made an improvement to my digial audio experience. The soundstage improved. The imaging improved, and the clarity and detail improved. The low end improved a little, and the high end improved drastically! Cost: free! Pepster let me try it out!

4) My own made coaxial cable made with: VH Audio Pulsar OCC 24 guage solid silver conductor and WBT 0152AG RCA plugs. This was by far the best coaxial digital cable I have used. Everything from soundstage, imaging, detail, clarity, and tonality improved when using this cable. The DIY cost was approximately: $325.00

Lastly, was the use of ethernet cables used for transport of the pure (undecoded) DSD signal (tapped in my Denon DVD-5910 as a transport) to my DIY DAC (these were/are all CAT5 cables).

1) I went down to my local electronics store and purchased an ethernet cable (intended for computer use). I hooked it up and was simply glad to get a signal from my DSD transport to my DAC.

2) A second ethernet cable (better build quality (made in Japan)) ethernet cable from the same electronics store. I hooked this cable up and could not hear a difference in the audio quality from the above ethernet cable.

3) I bought a some bulk ethernet cable made by Belden made with solid core copper and made my own ethernet cable. I found it made a great ethernet cable between my router and computer, but was incapable of transmitting the digital signal between my DSD transport and DAC.

4) Lastly, I bought an Acoustic Revive LAN 1.0 ethernet cable. This ethernet cable improved every aspect of my DSD signal listening experience. This cable is made from solid core copper (PCOCC). This cable sounds smooth, detailed, with a large soundstage and great imaging. Compared to the other cables I used, this cable made everything sound more "analog".

I hope this helps you out Ray.

tonyb

DarqueKnight wrote: »

This is beginning to make more sense to me now.

Why ? Long standing forum saying...."It all begins at the source". Personally I was never one to be convinced of the "bits are bits" or " the 1's and 0's" are all the same. More so a matter of what happens to those 1's and 0's going from point A to point B and what happens to them as they pass threw equipment and cables. To me anyway, that's where the variations in sound come from.

Audio Note has a philosophy, the longer a digital signal stays in the digital domain the more harm is done to the signal. I might agree with that.

EndersShadow

@DarqueKnight, I apologize I dont have a TON of info to share, but I have gone down this road a bit so I figured I would share my experience with you.

I've had a couple different coaxial cables in the mix from just your standard Wal-Mart one, to a Phillips one Pepster sent me, to the BlackCat Veloce RCA/BNC cable..

The second I put the Blackcat in I was done. It opened up the sound considerably from my computer to my Sunfire TGP-II, and the same when I used it direct to my DacMagic. I got more seperation, height and width from my soundstage. This was when I was using my Polk RTA 11TL's stock in a horribly square room.

For the low cost (think it was like 75 bucks from Phil @pearsall001 ) I am very happy with the cable, except they only make it in one length which is fairly short so your source must be close to what its connecting to.

I have also tried Audioquest USB cables (Forest) v standard printer USB cables and heard a bit of a difference there, but I also didn't think there was enough of one to spend a TON on it, but if the length is short enough I could see spending up to maybe 100 on a decent cable.

I did however prefer coaxial over USB for my DacMagic (it can take a higher input on coaxial too), so I didnt chase my tail much on the USB cords.

PS Its ironic that my setup as far as DAC and cable is identical to one Phil had in his system that he liked till he got the itch to try something new.... maybe one day I will have that itch, but I dont see the BlackCat Veloce going anywhere.

tonyb

I think I was the one who sold ya that Blackcat Dan, could be wrong though, memory isn't what it used to be.

The Blackcat, which I've been recommending a lot, is a darn fine cable for not a lot of scratch. 2nd best digital coax I've heard to date.

EndersShadow

@tonyb


I'm fairly certain it was Phil but my memory aint what it used to be either...

YEAH, I'm old but not losing my mind (link), I bought it for a steal for sure seeing the price again

tonyb

LOL....you got a smokin' deal pal from Phil. Whoever I sold mine to should be happier than pigs sh$t too.

sucks2beme

USB cables may or may not make a difference.
Either way- keeping it short is a good idea.
- unlike audio cables, either it gets there ok or it doesn't.
I have noticed a difference by using a shorter (cheap)cable on my
portable dac/headphone amp. I use a AQ carbon on my standard rig.
So I can hear when a cable ISN'T performing well.

DarqueKnight

tonyb wrote: »

DarqueKnight wrote: »

This is beginning to make more sense to me now.

Why ? Long standing forum saying...."It all begins at the source".

It is making more sense because I have a better understanding of the computer audio equipment people are using and the noise characteristics of that equipment. In other words, generally, the people who are hearing the most difference among digital cables are using laptops with high noise characteristics. A cable with better noise filtering capability is going to make more of a difference in that application than in an application where the digital interfaces have low noise.

polkfarmboy

Yep I think your on the right track but even with my lowly musical fidelity M1 click I could still here a diff.

tonyb

Could be DK, Your on to something with the noise issue. However I think there's more to it than just noise. The presence or absence of noise doesn't account for the differences in tone or soundstage. Just my opinion of course.

BlueFox

Most likely the laptops have cheap sound cards that have high levels of jitter. Plus they are laptops. Computers in general are terrible music servers, at least compared to machines, such as the Bryston BDP players, that are purposely built for one purpose, which is to deliver an uncorrupted digital signal to a DAC. Like it or not, but bits are not bits when it comes to music files.

tonyb

BlueFox wrote: »

Like it or not, but bits are not bits when it comes to music files.

I think the bits are bits Fox....it's what happens to those bits from point A to point B. We can argue all day on the differences in digital transmission and the effects every one has on those bits.

Think of it like this....we keep saying with your system "everything matters". So break down your digital transmission to the same ideology. In other words, narrow your system down and apply "everything matters." Never hurts to experiment no matter if it goes against the grain of audio logic.

sucks2beme

The AQ carbon I got cost $60 from another CP member. I had a Kimber cable
I bought new for about the same price, didn't hear a difference. I had a good quality
Belkin cable (under $30) and both of these sound better.
I don't feel a need to spend more. I'd rather spend the money for a better DAC.
On any cable debate, I'm going to to say spend your $$$ on good gear, then worry about cables. Getting a better quality DAC or preamp is the 1st place to spend your money. Avoid cr@p cables, but do a little homework and it doesn't hurt to
look for a decent used cable that doesn't break the bank.

tonyb

DSkip wrote: »

Unless a server is adding its own flare to the music or you are using it as a DAC, I'm not sure you could hear a difference personally. I'll reserve absolute judgment until I have that opportunity.

I think servers do add their own flair, albeit to a lessor degree. I also think the reason most sound better is because they handle jitter/noise better than a computer based system.

Can't speak for USB cables though as I never use them. I would imagine the same principles of build quality and metallurgy used would apply as to any other cable.

DarqueKnight

tonyb wrote: »

Can't speak for USB cables though as I never use them. I would imagine the same principles of build quality and metallurgy used would apply as to any other cable.

My only interest in USB cables is because of DSD. Most music servers and DACs only implement DSD over a USB connection.

steveinaz

DarqueKnight wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

DarqueKnight wrote: »

This is beginning to make more sense to me now.

Why ? Long standing forum saying...."It all begins at the source".

It is making more sense because I have a better understanding of the computer audio equipment people are using and the noise characteristics of that equipment. In other words, generally, the people who are hearing the most difference among digital cables are using laptops with high noise characteristics. A cable with better noise filtering capability is going to make more of a difference in that application than in an application where the digital interfaces have low noise.

Exactly, it's my "theory" that sending/receiving interfaces that have stricter standards (higher quality) would have far more signifigance in the digital realm than the cable connecting them.

We talk alot about the DAC, and the analog output section, but we rarely get into the weeds of the connecting interface electronics. I believe in equipment like DK's or BlueFox, these guys have moved to the "next level" where they are benefitting from truly precise digital interfaces in their equipment.