Starting from scratch on SDA 1c's

Sea

drumminman wrote: »

The least expensive, option, is the #16 gauge Erse SuperQ Laminated Steel Inductor.

erseaudio.com/Products/SuperQCoils16Gauge/ESQ55-16-18000

Is this the one you are referring to?

westmassguy

Sea wrote: »

drumminman wrote: »

The least expensive, option, is the #16 gauge Erse SuperQ Laminated Steel Inductor.

erseaudio.com/Products/SuperQCoils16Gauge/ESQ55-16-18000

Is this the one you are referring to?

http://www.parts-express.com/erse-super-q-17mh-16-awg-500w-inductor-crossover-coil--266-956
Erse is frequently out of stock on everything.
The Inductor will need to be unwound to 16mh

Sea

I may try these. I did not replace any inductors when I rebuilt my 1C crossovers. I think the bottom end is tight and low as it is. If this gives further improvement it will be fantastic.

Sea

[/quote]
http://www.parts-express.com/erse-super-q-17mh-16-awg-500w-inductor-crossover-coil--266-956
Erse is frequently out of stock on everything.
The Inductor will need to be unwound to 16mh
[/quote]

Unfortunately, I don't have a LCR meter.

strokin

Faustin wrote: »

It is veneer

Never really looked at until you mentioned it, glad you did, now I know not to get too carried away with my sanding. I wish I had the time to spend more time with them.

strokin

Sea wrote: »

Red and white oak veneer are very reasonably priced.

Wow, that kinda changes everything. Never really looked that close until you mentioned it. How much rosewood did you say you had?

strokin

westmassguy wrote: »

strokin wrote: »

Faustin wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^. Ditto what drumminman said.

drumminman wrote: »

I would use Sonicaps throughout if you have the coin. Also, don't forget to upgrade the SDA inductor. It will improve the bass. WMG (Dave) has some cost effective options.

Sounds like a new inductor is in order , I'm all for more bass. Even though after all of the mods I have made so far, they have awesome bass. What are the inductors exactly?

The Inductors in question, are part of the "Full Compliment Sub-Bass Drive" circuit.
I refer to them as the Dimensional or Sub-Base Inductors for short. On the 1Cs, the large spool Inductor the crossover mounts to, is the one that get's replaced. The existing Inductor is 16mh, # 18 gauge, and is approximately 2.5-2.6 ohms DCR. There are several options for replacing it with a lower resistance inductor. Some opt for large gauge air core inductors, which are normally special order and expensive. Jantzen makes a C-Coil #14 gauge Toroid, which is also special order and relatively expensive. The least expensive, option, is the #16 gauge Erse SuperQ Laminated Steel Inductor.
The Erse SuperQ has a DCR of .5 ohms. That's a five fold decrease in resistance.
The Jantzen C-Coil has a DCR of .16 ohms. That's a 15 fold decrease in resistance.
The caveat is, your 1Cs will no longer be 6 ohm nominal. They will be 4 ohm, and will drop well below that at certain frequencies. Your amp must be able to handle <4 ohm loads safely.

Thanks wmg, for the details on that, So in a nutshell, would one deduct that the overall Loudness capability of the speakers , which in turn would fill the room with more overall sound, and loudness, be understood by using higher resistance inductors?

westmassguy

strokin wrote: »

westmassguy wrote: »

strokin wrote: »

Faustin wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^. Ditto what drumminman said.

drumminman wrote: »

I would use Sonicaps throughout if you have the coin. Also, don't forget to upgrade the SDA inductor. It will improve the bass. WMG (Dave) has some cost effective options.

Sounds like a new inductor is in order , I'm all for more bass. Even though after all of the mods I have made so far, they have awesome bass. What are the inductors exactly?

The Inductors in question, are part of the "Full Compliment Sub-Bass Drive" circuit.
I refer to them as the Dimensional or Sub-Base Inductors for short. On the 1Cs, the large spool Inductor the crossover mounts to, is the one that get's replaced. The existing Inductor is 16mh, # 18 gauge, and is approximately 2.5-2.6 ohms DCR. There are several options for replacing it with a lower resistance inductor. Some opt for large gauge air core inductors, which are normally special order and expensive. Jantzen makes a C-Coil #14 gauge Toroid, which is also special order and relatively expensive. The least expensive, option, is the #16 gauge Erse SuperQ Laminated Steel Inductor.
The Erse SuperQ has a DCR of .5 ohms. That's a five fold decrease in resistance.
The Jantzen C-Coil has a DCR of .16 ohms. That's a 15 fold decrease in resistance.
The caveat is, your 1Cs will no longer be 6 ohm nominal. They will be 4 ohm, and will drop well below that at certain frequencies. Your amp must be able to handle <4 ohm loads safely.

Thanks wmg, for the details on that, So in a nutshell, would one deduct that the overall Loudness capability of the speakers , which in turn would fill the room with more overall sound, and loudness, be understood by using higher resistance inductors?

The new Inductors increase the output of the Dimensional Woofers only, below 150 Hz.
Deep Bass, and Bass Slam is improved. How much that affects the overall SPL of the pair, I couldn't answer.

Sea

strokin wrote: »

Sea wrote: »

Red and white oak veneer are very reasonably priced.

Wow, that kinda changes everything. Never really looked that close until you mentioned it. How much rosewood did you say you had?

I bought a 4 x 8 sheet. Please note that it is not genuine Rosewood. It is a product that is called Composite that as best I can figure is a more common wood that is dyed and treated to resemble exotic woods. Rosewood is rare and hard to obtain and when found is vey expensive. Genuine rosewood also has a high natural oil content and requires special finishing techniques.

I am sure I will enough left for you to cover your tops. It will be several weeks before I get to that point.

strokin

Ok Wmg, that's really what I had in mind, but didn't know how to put it in to simple terms. Thank for clearing that up. reason being, I'm not much of a rock & roller but I do like to crank up my Keb'Mo' and Dave Weckl now and again. Most times I find myself listening to my stereo perform more so than the music itself. I definitly will need to talk to you about doing my xovers in a little while, I am ordering my tweets tomorrow.

strokin

Sea wrote: »

strokin wrote: »

Sea wrote: »

Red and white oak veneer are very reasonably priced.

Wow, that kinda changes everything. Never really looked that close until you mentioned it. How much rosewood did you say you had?

I bought a 4 x 8 sheet. Please note that it is not genuine Rosewood. It is a product that is called Composite that as best I can figure is a more common wood that is dyed and treated to resemble exotic woods. Rosewood is rare and hard to obtain and when found is vey expensive. Genuine rosewood also has a high natural oil content and requires special finishing techniques.

I am sure I will enough left for you to cover your tops. It will be several weeks before I get to that point.

OMG! that's gorgeous. would you not have enough to do the bottoms? Where did you locate that? by the way I am not very good with these google machines , I have not used one long. please excuse my ignorance I don't know how to answer you without quoting the entire conversation. How would I go about that? Once again between my lack of experience on the computer, and a previous brain injury, I am a little slow on this thing. So any help I could get would be appreciated.

westmassguy

Most pop/rock doesn't go much below 40Hz. When you have a full orchestra, whether classical or more modern types of music, that's when you feel the deep bass.

Sea

strokin wrote: »

OMG! that's gorgeous. would you not have enough to do the bottoms? Where did you locate that?

Sorry for the confusion. I will have enough for both. The end caps are glued on and not easy to remove. The bottom cap is not completely covered, just the edge and a small part of the bottom and top. Look at the bottom of the speaker and that is what the top of the bottom cap looks like as well. I fixed mine so they could be attached with bolts through the cabinets like on the 2.3TL and 1.2TL's. You have to be careful that you leave the cabinet well sealed.

I bought the veneer from jsowoodproducts.com

strokin

westmassguy wrote: »

Most pop/rock doesn't go much below 40Hz. When you have a full orchestra, whether classical or more modern types of music, that's when you feel the deep bass.

I definitely would want to go with a lager one anyway i think, I mean, why not right? Is there anyway you could message me a ballpark figure on what we would be looking at with this list of mods?
Sonic caps on all caps except low pass,( Daytons there)
mills resistors,
larger inductores(brand by your advice)

I am figuring that there is more, and that's where you come in.

strokin

Sea wrote: »

strokin wrote: »

OMG! that's gorgeous. would you not have enough to do the bottoms? Where did you locate that?

Sorry for the confusion. I will have enough for both. The end caps are glued on and not easy to remove. The bottom cap is not completely covered, just the edge and a small part of the bottom and top. Look at the bottom of the speaker and that is what the top of the bottom cap looks like as well. I fixed mine so they could be attached with bolts through the cabinets like on the 2.3TL and 1.2TL's. You have to be careful that you leave the cabinet well sealed.

I bought the veneer from jsowoodproducts.com

I see, I'm liking what I'm hearing. Do you have any photos of when you installed the bolts? also any spiking hints as well.

Also what would be the best way to remove the tops and bottoms? I resealed the inside, is that what you mean?

Sea

Sorry. I do not have any photos. The end caps are glued on just like the sides. Both require a long straight edge like a chisel. Be careful to not damage the cabinet.

I removed the side panels and made fresh ones from new MDF then covered with new fabric. I did not glue them back on but instead I used the same kind of posts used to attach speaker grills.

The end caps were a little more difficult. I installed T-nuts (similar to hurricane nuts). I drilled holes in the tops and bottoms of the cabinet. In this fashion I could put a bolt through the cabinet from the inside into the T-nuts in the tops and bottom. I used lock tight to seal around the bolt heads to be sure the cabinets remained air tight.

I am away for the weekend. When I return home I will take photos of the side panels.

strokin

Bolts it is, I am trying to do this on a very limited budget unfortunately. I also know that's hard to do in this rabbit hole. I had to glue one side back on that went very well. After scraping the old glue off, I used loctite to reglue it, laid a blanket and steel weights over night,looks great. The other side I'm making a new one, I have grill cloth and hurricane nuts coming from PE and wood from HD.

strokin

Sorry Dskip didn't see your post, I will be using glue on the sides, what are your thoughts on thetops and bottoms?

strokin

Sorry, I meant hurricane nuts for the drivers , not the sides.

Sea

DSkip wrote: »

I believe you would have been better off gluing the side back on. Attaching it like a speaker grill means the damping it provided to the sides of the cabinet is no more.

I had not considered that but it may be a valid point. With the sides off, it is basically a 1C Studio model. When I bought these the sides were in really bad shape so I do not have any history hearing with the sides glued on but they sound great like this. I thought I remembered reading that the sides if some of the larger SDA's were held on with some sort of clips.

Schurkey

westmassguy wrote: »

http://www.parts-express.com/erse-super-q-17mh-16-awg-500w-inductor-crossover-coil--266-956
Erse is frequently out of stock on everything.
The Inductor will need to be unwound to 16mh

Sea wrote: »

Unfortunately, I don't have a LCR meter.

ERSE will do the unwinding on a custom basis for an additional fee.

Last I checked, I think it was $10 per inductor when you purchase the inductor from them. Price may have changed since then.

strokin

I have a question, maybe some one could chime in. While dynomatting the drivers, on the left speaker(the one I started with) I noticed the no.'s 6510&6511, were not like I had read on the forum or what the guy at Polk said. So I put the 6510's on the bottom and 6511's on top. Digging in the forum last night while creating my own copies of all the information I can find on the SDA-c's, I saw where the the 6510's would be on the left, top and bottom, of left sp. and right side on right sp. Which is correct?

Faustin

The 6510's are the outside drivers. Here are the wiring diagrams.

strokin

Awesome ,thanks, that's the copies I made last night. Glad that's solved.

Hurricane nuts should be here soon, so have to pull the drivers again anyway.
Luckily I read a post, I think it might have been you and Wmg about installing those. That will go a little smoother.

strokin

Unless I can get Larry Rings. any words on those?

strokin

Finally got the new tweets in today. After receiving my new spikes I'm starting to question the stud size when I think about these 100lb speakers,

anyone have any words of advice on this subject?

Schurkey

Doesn't take much of a fastener to hold the spikes to the bottom of the cabinet. Even if the studs are hardware-store Grade 2 all-thread, the threads in the speaker are weaker than the studs.

strokin

Schurkey wrote: »

Doesn't take much of a fastener to hold the spikes to the bottom of the cabinet. Even if the studs are hardware-store Grade 2 all-thread, the threads in the speaker are weaker than the studs.

They have wooden dowels on the bottom, did these come from the factory?

strokin

I know alot of you are wondering why I didn't do the bottoms too, but hey, I did these in my family room floor.

MrBuhl

I think you'll find those are actually plastic capped tacks essentially, Mine broke off and the tack portion had to be pried out when I removed them. Yes, that's factory.