Drywall question

treitz3

There is zero reason to use adhesive on a properly installed stud ceiling or a wall unless you are using Quietrock. I feel for the guy who remodels those houses or rooms that do use adhesive.

Tom

polk500

mrbiron wrote: »

polk500 wrote: »

Listen to this guy he knows how to hang dry wall and PL 4000 or the like for ceiling with screws and don't forget the soundproofing in the ceiling.

What the what????? PL4000, why thats 10x stickier than PL400..........Must be a hybrid mix between Dap's 4000 and Loctite PL

What's the point of screws if you're using PL400? The adhesive has a stronger holding bond than the screws ever will. I say just lick it and stick it.

Hey brother it's all good. You lick and hold I'm going to screw and go.

Have a great evening.

Cheers
Roger

ken brydson

.[/quote]

Hey brother it's all good. You lick and hold I'm going to screw and go.

Have a great evening.

Cheers
Roger [/quote]

I think I need a smoke now...

tonyb

treitz3 wrote: »

There is zero reason to use adhesive on a properly installed stud ceiling or a wall unless you are using Quietrock. I feel for the guy who remodels those houses or rooms that do use adhesive.

Tom

Amen to that. I see no reason for it, but to each his own if it will make you sleep better at night.

Been in the trades a long time and never seen anyone do it. My own home is 50 years old and only now just starting to see nail pops along the border to the walls. Chicago's climate runs the gamut too.

Guess what....over time, pops will happen here and there but not like you won't ever paint the ceiling again or move in that time frame.

Curious as to why not a drop ceiling since this is a basement ...correct ? I have drywall on my ceiling in the basement and hate it. Why ? Because everytime I have to get to something in the ceiling I have to cut drywall. Like what ? Outside faucets....when they go you ruin a lot of drywall. If you have to remodel and change plumbing/electrical/gas lines going to the upstairs level....it's a pain in the arse.

My advice is to before you hang it on the ceiling, at least mark the water lines and put access panels where the outside faucets come in. If your house is already an older home, I wouldn't even consider it as your more than likely going to have to get to something in that ceiling.

treitz3

Hello, Roger. No need to get all upset. Let me ask you this in the hopes to find out WHY one would feel the need to use adhesive. From your post, I take it that you use adhesive to hold and/or secure the sheet rock onto the studs while you are hanging the ceilings or walls. Is this correct?

Or is there another reason you and gdb feel that adhesive is necessary?

Tom

mrbiron

Remember, the adhesive is only bonding to paper.

******You cannot lick and stick sheetrock. Even though PL400 has more holding power than straight nails, it should never be installed by itself. Screws are needed to secure sheetrock. For ceilings, use a smaller **** pattern to help prevent sagging.

polk500

treitz3 wrote: »

Hello, Roger. No need to get all upset. Let me ask you this in the hopes to find out WHY one would feel the need to use adhesive. From your post, I take it that you use adhesive to hold and/or secure the sheet rock onto the studs while you are hanging the ceilings or walls. Is this correct?

Or is there another reason you and gdb feel that adhesive is necessary?

Tom

Hey Tom if I came off as upset I apologize, I was trying to be funny.

I don't drywall for a living but I've remodelled several houses that I've owned over the years and helped friends do projects as well. And by using both glue and screws on the ceilings using 5/8 drywall(I should point out that I've painted these ceilings don't like the stucco look) I've had zero popped screws or sagging as I've seen on some other ceilings.

Is it overkill probably but it works for me.

Cheers
Roger

gdb

Maybe someone should alert the huge drywall adhesive manufacturing industry that their product is unnecessary and that they should cease the production of it, immediately. In fact, I urge all walls be covered by wood lath strips and a three-coat plaster application. Forego drywall altogether !

nooshinjohn

Lathe and plaster was superior to drywall in every way. The problem with it today is it is to damn expensive. My home uses drywall in place of lathe as the base for two layers of plaster

tonyb

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Lathe and plaster was superior to drywall in every way. The problem with it today is it is to damn expensive. My home uses drywall in place of lathe as the base for two layers of plaster

Interesting.....plaster in an area of earthquakes. Guess that's cool if your walls are styled in the "old world" fashion. Those cracks just add character.

Moose68Bash

I think we should have more dry wall threads.

They rival cable threads.

However, so far, at least, the rancor and vitriol are not on par with the best of the cable threads!

Please pass the popcorn!

tonyb

DSkip wrote: »

You know why? This entire thread has been based on EXPERIENCE, something that is often lacking in cable threads.

Ding-ding.....the voice of truth rings ever so loudly.

Back to drywall....
Truth of the matter is, nobody gives a rats arse if you want to use adhesive or not. Put chewing gum under there if that makes you sleep better. As long as it's screwed, anything additional won't hurt it....except someones ego maybe, and some time and money. So what, knock your socks off with the adhesive.

Just give me a heads up on the brand so I can buy some stock in the company before you go buy truck loads of the stuff.

One more thing....tradesmen aren't called tradesmen for no reason. They live and breath this stuff for decades, they know what works and what doesn't and what is a waste of time and money. Take advice from a tradesman, your better off than watching a youtube video of some driveway DIY'er.

treitz3

I make a **** ton of money off of those you-tube guys.....usually when the wife gets too fed up with the disaster they call home. Case in point - last year at this time, we got a cool 7K to finish up and redo a hack job on....get this....a 750 square foot room!

It would have cost more if the hacks used adhesive. Just sayin'.

Tom

tonyb

treitz3 wrote: »

I make a **** ton of money off of those you-tube guys.....usually when the wife gets too fed up with the disaster they call home. Case in point - last year at this time, we got a cool 7K to finish up and redo a hack job on....get this....a 750 square foot room!

It would have cost more if the hacks used adhesive. Just sayin'.

Tom

lmao...how about it, right ?

Everything looks easy on youtube, and the downside is they get you to believe anyone can do it with limited skills. Also make you believe you'll save a ton of dough by doing it yourself when in reality it'll cost you more in the long run....as your example simply puts it.

treitz3

Allow me to tell you a story. A good friend of mine used adhesive and screws about every 6" to build his kitchen cabinets. Built to last? You bet. Where you want to be in the house during a tornado? You bet.

We always teased him about feeling for the guy who wanted to remodel one day. Well, that day has come and the same person who built it overkill now has to do the demo. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot, no.....not even a fifty foot pole. I just wished him good luck and prayed for him.

Like mrbiron stated, the adhesive only bonds to paper. It's only about a 2mm thick paper substrate on any gypsum board. Adhesive sticks well and is hard to remove, especially from studs. It's as easy as using a dull 6 in 1 painter's tool with a little bit of force to remove the paper layer from the gypsum board when demolition time comes. The problem rears its ugly head because you don't need to remove the adhesive from the removed gypsum. You do from the studs.

To the OP, there is someone on this thread that has no clue about audio. It seems he has no clue about sheet rock either......at least he's consistent. I'll keep praying for him too.

My apologies Roger for missing your humor. It's all good.

Tom

kevhed72

What did you mean by "don't punch the screws through the paper layer of the Sheetrock"....do you mean not to counter sink the screws?
I did get the sub panel finished today for the electrical...it is a thing of beauty. Pics to come...

I may just hire some dudes to do the drywall....

mrbiron

What he means is when **** don't over drive the screw on the finish side. The screw should be just and when i say just, i mean a c-hair into the substrate. (<1/16") you want to be able to skim over the head with 2 coats of joint compound . if you over drive, it'll take YOU roughly three heavy skims to fill the hole due to the compound shrinking when it dries.
There are bits you can get for your drill at any hardware store for about $0.50 that help prevent over driving.

mrbiron

Don't hire a guy. Its not rocket science. How are you going to know if you can do it if you dont try??
UNLESS!!you're in a time crunch then hire a guy. If there is no rush, give it a whirl. There will be such a huge amount of self pride if you do a reno on your own for the first time and chicks dig guys that know how to use their tool's!!

tonyb

He has a point chief ^^^. Then again only you can decide whats above your own capabilities. After all, we old farts didn't learn anything sitting on the couch. Yeah, we all make mistakes, more than most will admit too, that's the process of learning my friend.

Speaking from personal experience, there are certain things in life you WANT to learn how to do yourself. For me....drywall isn't one of them I'm particularly fond of. I've done it....many times too, which is why I avoid it whenever possible.

treitz3

If you have the time, try to DIY. All you need is patience. mrbiron nailed it once again;

Make sure all the screw heads have formed a small dimple. If they have not penetrated far enough, turn them in slightly more. A quick way to check this is to run a dull drywall knife with slightly rounded corners over the installed screws. If the flat blade clicks against the screw heads, then they are poking out too far.

If you have punched through the paper finish layer of the gypsum, the picture below will give you a good indication of what happens to the side facing the studs. It creates an area of damage that can range anywhere from an inch or so to up to 3" or so. Yes, you don't see it but you will see the "nail pop" in the future. That, I can guarantee.



A drywall bit or drywall set screw seen below will help prevent paper punch through when using a normal drill. For large jobs, you can also purchase or rent a sheet rock screw gun. These, you just adjust for the length of screw along with the depth wanted and go.

Drywall set screw -

Sheet rock screw gun -


Basically, so you don't punch through the paper layer, you want to get the head of the screw no more than 1mm past the plane of the paper layer. This will create a dimple. If you go 3mm past the paper layer, you have now just damaged the drywall. When starting out, you may want to get some waste drywall and an extra stud to practice on about 20 or so. After that, it's just repetition with inspection to see that nothing has changed.

Tom

tonyb

Spend the coin on the drywall gun, rent it....worth every penny, thank Tom later.

BTW...if your ever going to think about in-ceiling speaks, nows the time to throw some cheap 14 ga. wire up there to approx. locations. So what if it sits there doing nothing, well worth the price of a roll of 14 ga. rather than trying to fish it all afterwards.

mrbiron

Nailed it!!!.... I mean, Screwed it!!!

"Dimple" was the word that escaped me this morning while writing the post. Thanks for the refresher tom! I find my cordless impact sans drywall bit is my prefered method. Mainly because I'm too cheap to by a rock gun

exalted512

The screws essentially hold the sheet rock up by the PAPER, not by the gypsum. So when you go through the paper into the gypsum, you lose some of the 'holding power' by the screw.

Those little bits that treitz posted are cheap and a life saver...and can be picked up at the local hardware store. Literally just put the screw on it and hold the trigger on the drill down. As long as you're level, it's perfect every time and you don't have to worry about doing it slow on the drill so you dont go too far...the bit pushes up against the drywall and pushes the tip of the bit off of the screw so it doesn't go in any further. Simple, but incredibly effective.

And I'll say it again...DIY is great. I built my entire 2000 sq ft metal building with 650 sq ft of living area myself...except for the slab and the taping and floating. Hanging dry wall isn't all that hard. But if you want 'perfection', let someone do the taping and floating. It'll take you 10x as long for a similar, but probably not quite as good looking end result.
-Cody

kevhed72

Here are some pics of the progress....
60 amp sub panel which will run 3 dedicated circuits of 10 awg shielded wire plus lights and standard recepticles for rest of basement (I told the electrician I wanted 4 awg copper wire from main panel to sub and ended up with 2 awg -long story)

Other pics of a framing nightmare-another 2 feet of ceiling height would have been nice:

sucks2beme

tonyb wrote: »

DSkip wrote: »

You know why? This entire thread has been based on EXPERIENCE, something that is often lacking in cable threads.

One more thing....tradesmen aren't called tradesmen for no reason. They live and breath this stuff for decades, they know what works and what doesn't and what is a waste of time and money. Take advice from a tradesman, your better off than watching a youtube video of some driveway DIY'er.

Down here they're called "undocumented Immigrants"!
And it shows in their work. Some of the stuff I see scares me.

nooshinjohn

Some of those pics make the place look like there is not enough space for a hobbit to stand up.

What is the ceiling height down there?

treitz3

nooshinjohn wrote: »

What is the ceiling height down there?

According to the photos, "non-negotiable". Lookin' good, kevhed72.

Tom

WagnerRC

This is really a great topic. Thanks for all the laughs. Have a great weekend.

tonyb

sucks2beme wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

DSkip wrote: »

You know why? This entire thread has been based on EXPERIENCE, something that is often lacking in cable threads.

One more thing....tradesmen aren't called tradesmen for no reason. They live and breath this stuff for decades, they know what works and what doesn't and what is a waste of time and money. Take advice from a tradesman, your better off than watching a youtube video of some driveway DIY'er.

Down here they're called "undocumented Immigrants"!
And it shows in their work. Some of the stuff I see scares me.

LMAO.....Don't make me slap ya upside the head, you know what I meant. lol

but....the UI's are the kings of McGyvering anything, that I'll give them.

mrbiron

You haven't seen anything with UIs until youve seen a microwave city. That's right, I said microwave city. On larger projects, they Mcgyver a way to stack microwaves 6 high by 3-4 wide in areas of receptacles so they can cook their smell a$$ lunches. I'll see if I can dig you up a picture I've taken that had me in awww. When they are all running, you can easily loose 5lbs of water weight by just standing in the proximity.

Looks good Kev. Unfortunately, soffits are never unavoidable when renovating the basement space. Keep'm coming!