CRS+ rebuild - they're up and running
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drumminman
Posts: 3,396
First let me say that these mods were inspired and informed by the great work done previously on this model by Darqueknight, Toolfan and Nspindel. Without the guidance from their well documented posts these would have turned out differently and I’m sure not as well.
I connected them to the 2 channel rig last night and have them playing as I type. The sound is a bit thin in the upper midrange, the imaging pretty good and definitely with SDA spaciousness. The highs are a little tizzy at times, transients not bad. In comparing them to my fully modded, fully burned in 2.3TL’s, they have a ways to go, but that’s to be expected.
Lots of mods done all at once:
- Tony’s (Gimpod) boards
- Sonicap caps and mills resistors
- Jantzen inductors
- 14 awg Solen Hepta Litz SDA inductor
- Jumpers on board made of 18 awg solid core OCC copper teflon wire
- All new Molex connectors soldered to boards
- New wiring harnesses using solid core OCC copper Teflon wire – tweeters with a single run of 16 awg each to pos and neg ; MW’s with two runs of 18 awg to each polarity with gold plated brass quick disconnects
- Hurricane nuts and SS button head hex screws to mount all drivers and PR to baffle
- Armaflex speaker gaskets
- Cardas direct gold plated billet copper BP’s with the same 18 awg OCC copper wire as above, two runs of each to each polarity and SDA BP to board
- RD-0198 tweeters
- Black Hole 5
- Dynamat frames of MW's and PR's
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This project was fun but with frustration I didn’t experience when modding my other Polks. The biggest issues were the crumbling particle board of the baffles and the PR alignments. Glad I remembered from DK’s thread that the holes in the frames only line up one way. I had to test placement over and over before I was able to get a fit. Once I found the correct orientation I had H-nuts fall into the cabinet due to the above particle board issue, which then necessitated removing the PR’s (multiple times). Harsh language was heard during final assembly yesterday!
The two things I did a little different from the guys above are I mounted the Xover boards to the floor of the cabinet, and I used three 2” strips of Black Hole 5 on the backwall instead of the sidewalls. I was concerned about using too much and sucking the life out of the audio, but so far that doesn’t seem to be the case.
One other mod: because the cabinets are so small and everything so close together I was concerned about vibrations affecting various components, so I used Fat Mat (like Dynamat) pieces on the tweeter wires. Before Fat Mat when I tapped them they vibrated like a guitar string, dead after the Fat Mat. I also used rope caulk pieces on the caps.
Pics:
New MW harness, tweeter harness and Solen Hepta Litz inductor
Pre mods testing to see how they sound:
Populated board
Installing Hurricane Nuts:
I connected them to the 2 channel rig last night and have them playing as I type. The sound is a bit thin in the upper midrange, the imaging pretty good and definitely with SDA spaciousness. The highs are a little tizzy at times, transients not bad. In comparing them to my fully modded, fully burned in 2.3TL’s, they have a ways to go, but that’s to be expected.
Lots of mods done all at once:
- Tony’s (Gimpod) boards
- Sonicap caps and mills resistors
- Jantzen inductors
- 14 awg Solen Hepta Litz SDA inductor
- Jumpers on board made of 18 awg solid core OCC copper teflon wire
- All new Molex connectors soldered to boards
- New wiring harnesses using solid core OCC copper Teflon wire – tweeters with a single run of 16 awg each to pos and neg ; MW’s with two runs of 18 awg to each polarity with gold plated brass quick disconnects
- Hurricane nuts and SS button head hex screws to mount all drivers and PR to baffle
- Armaflex speaker gaskets
- Cardas direct gold plated billet copper BP’s with the same 18 awg OCC copper wire as above, two runs of each to each polarity and SDA BP to board
- RD-0198 tweeters
- Black Hole 5
- Dynamat frames of MW's and PR's
-
This project was fun but with frustration I didn’t experience when modding my other Polks. The biggest issues were the crumbling particle board of the baffles and the PR alignments. Glad I remembered from DK’s thread that the holes in the frames only line up one way. I had to test placement over and over before I was able to get a fit. Once I found the correct orientation I had H-nuts fall into the cabinet due to the above particle board issue, which then necessitated removing the PR’s (multiple times). Harsh language was heard during final assembly yesterday!
The two things I did a little different from the guys above are I mounted the Xover boards to the floor of the cabinet, and I used three 2” strips of Black Hole 5 on the backwall instead of the sidewalls. I was concerned about using too much and sucking the life out of the audio, but so far that doesn’t seem to be the case.
One other mod: because the cabinets are so small and everything so close together I was concerned about vibrations affecting various components, so I used Fat Mat (like Dynamat) pieces on the tweeter wires. Before Fat Mat when I tapped them they vibrated like a guitar string, dead after the Fat Mat. I also used rope caulk pieces on the caps.
Pics:
New MW harness, tweeter harness and Solen Hepta Litz inductor
Pre mods testing to see how they sound:
Populated board
Installing Hurricane Nuts:
"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
Post edited by drumminman on
Comments
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Awesome! I see the dog was impressed.
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The order of these pics is a little off. They were posted in order but vanilla imposed it's own editing which I couldn't work out how to correct. Oh well . . .
Installing BH 5:
Right speaker with SDA inductor, board in place:
Playing with board placement in right speaker:
Board installed in right speaker:
Left speaker almost completed:
Industrial Velcro:
Right speaker completed:
"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Wow, great work! Hopefully, once those suckers burn in they will sound glorious
Not at this point, but hopefully, in the future I want to do a complete rebuild of the CRS+ as well.
Enjoy the fruits of your labor.2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A -
Great job! I like the wood - that's stock or these were re-veneered?
They definitely need some break in time, don't be too concerned about how they sound yet.
I don't see any poly fill, hopefully it's just not pictured?
One thing that helps with the flaking particle board is poleurothane.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Thanks Neil. Yep, that's the stock veneer. It has a few dings, but overall is very presentable.
I did put the polyfill back in, but after the pics. Otherwise it would have blocked most of the wiring etc.
Re: the polyurethane, I thought about glueing the H-nuts in, but I had so much trouble with them stripping, which I had not experienced before. I wonder if they're being made differently now, out of cheaper metal."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Nice work.
Now sit back and enjoy. -
Love the work you all can do!! Time for some burn in.
I didn't have any problem with the hurricane nuts I got from parts express, and I'm not sure about gluing the nuts in but if you did "Loctite" has some thread locker (1 blue & 1 red) that is used for like scopes on rifles to help with they shake loose. 1 is easier to remove then the other,as 1 may need a touch of heat to remove. When you consider how much a speaker can shake I could see a problem of some things loosing up.2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
Very nice Drummin. I'm going to be tackling my CRS+s shortly, and am planning something a little crazy for the BH5. More to be revealed.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
7.5 hours so far. Will connect them to the HT and leave it on 12 hours a day for a few weeks to spead up the burn in.
WMG, I'm gettin' the popcorn ready now."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
They're quite good for HT use, as long as your center matches. If you're seating position is far enough away, you can go without a center too.drumminman wrote: »7.5 hours so far. Will connect them to the HT and leave it on 12 hours a day for a few weeks to spead up the burn in.
WMG, I'm gettin' the popcorn ready now.
Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
drumminman I knew those boards would fit on the bottom, it all just a matter of positioning.
BTW: Nice job. “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain -
Glad I remembered from DK’s thread that the holes in the frames only line up one way. I had to test placement over and over before I was able to get a fit.
Huh? The holes are evenly spaced. Regardless, the wire leads on the cone face always point down.I had H-nuts fall into the cabinet due to the above particle board issue
Use 5 minute epoxy to secure the Hurricane nuts to the hole.I thought about gluing the H-nuts in, but I had so much trouble with them stripping, which I had not experienced before. I wonder if they're being made differently now, out of cheaper metal.
I've run into that problem, they cross thread easily. To help prevent that always hand tighten at first until you are sure the cap screw is mating properly. If you feel it binding, stop! Remove the cap screw, grab a thread tap and run it through.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Huh? The holes are evenly spaced. Regardless, the wire leads on the cone face always point down.
I've run into that problem, they cross thread easily. To help prevent that always hand tighten at first until you are sure the cap screw is mating properly. If you feel it binding, stop! Remove the cap screw, grab a thread tap and run it through.
Re: hole spacing, wasn't on the MW's, it was on the passives. Never ran into that issue on the 2.3TL's or RTA 12C's (which is also built of particle board)
I did that and usually ran into a problem when the screw was about half way in. Maybe some of the crumbling particle board got into it and caused the threads to fail."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Re: hole spacing, wasn't on the MW's, it was on the passives.
Hmmmm.....I don't recall that issue even after I drilled out an extra 4 holes as the original 4 didn't seem to be enough.I did that and usually ran into a problem when the screw was about half way in. Maybe some of the crumbling particle board got into it and caused the threads to fail.
It's not the particle board. Most likely poor quality control.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Update on burn in: still have them connected to the 2 channel rig, now with a little over 25 hours. Smoothing out though the highs still at times sound a little thin and harsh on vocals (at times sound pretty good), mid range/upper bass still a little thin. The burn in is progressing though. Interesting how they go back and forth from sounding pretty good to not so good.
With the 2.3TL's it took somewhere around 200 hours for things to really settle in so I'm thinking the same for these."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
FYI, I found the highs a little thin until Tony sent me a PM that he had noticed that one of my inductors was mounted to the wrong pad. Once I corrected that mistake things sounded primo. If you can motivate to open the passives again, stick a cell phone inside and take a picture or two of the crossovers from top down so we can see them in detail. You've got one photo of one of one of the boards from the side, can't really see each component. Never hurts to have the crew double check your crossover work!Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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That's a good idea. I'll give it a little more time before I open 'em up again. So far I'm hearing the kind variation in tone and SQ I heard when I modded my other speakers.
What I'm wondering is how close should they sound to the 2.3TL's since that's my point of reference."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Nice job. As noted using Black Hole-5 can be touchy if placed wrong. This product absolutely works as advertised to the nenth degree. I used 3'' strips behind my tweeters down to the mid ws and it deaden the sound so dramatically I was thinking of pulling it out. I left it in for the better and the combo of that and Dynamatt were the best mechanical mods done w/ the tweeters and x-overs being more of a technical mod and were also done w/ my 2Bs.2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E
H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-
Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc -
Holy Crap - powered up the 2 channel rig last night with the CRS+ still connected. They have around 40 hours on them and the improvement from the last time I listened last weekend was dramatic. Wasn't expecting this so soon.It'll probably go back and forth for a while, but if this is a preview of what they're gonna sound like when everything burns in I'm a happy guy!
What I heard was expanded 3D soundstage, muuuuuuch, smoother fuller vocals, smoother highs, more engaging, organic mids, and punchy defined bass."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
I guess c*r*a*p ain't allowed.
"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Any word or phrase not allowed on Sesame Street, will be censored. This is the Fisher Price Forum after all.
Great on the CRS+s. Don't you love it when some say "Burn-in" is a fallacy?Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
westmassguy wrote: »Any word or phrase not allowed on Sesame Street, will be censored. This is the Fisher Price/Hello Kitty/My Little Pony Forum after all.
Great on the CRS+s. Don't you love it when some say "Burn-in" is a fallacy?
Fixed for you.“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain -
Thank youHome Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Excellent read and great rework on these. I remember reading this last year. What caught my attention is the "crumbling particle board" statement. I recently found a set and didn't bite because of this issue. I opened the X-over and sure enough formic dust and brittle MDF, not to mention the extra glue drip that certifies a Polk.
How are they holding up?Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Haven't opened them since the mods were completed, but no issues. They're doing HT duty as the front L-R mains in my HT, with a LSM704c. The timbre match is quite good.
Powering them with a Carver TFM-42."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Great, I also didn't see mention if you had to mod the baffles to fit the RDO 198s.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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No the 198's should be drop in replacements for the SL2000 as long as the TL mod is performed.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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No the 198's should be drop in replacements for the SL2000 as long as the TL mod is performed.
Yep"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Looks good I have a pair with OEM Stands, a pair of RDO 198's Larry's rings and tweeter brackets, I'm just waiting for available funds to send the crossovers to WMG, your thread is inspiring for sure.Home Theater
Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable
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Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin
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Mine will never leave me as long as I'm alive...
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