Response To Habanero Monk's Inquiry
Comments
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Well putDarqueKnight wrote: »Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it is obvious that the anger and hostility directed toward Club Polk by these individuals is simply due to the fact that trolls cannot come here and run amok.
Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Well it does say they are "special members"..
Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎
SVS SB16 X2
Cary SLP-05/Ultimate Upgrade.
Cary SA-500.1 ES Amps
Cary DMS 800PV Network
OPPO UDP 205/ModWright Modification
VPI Scout TT / Dynavector 20x2
Jolida JD9 Fully Modified
VPI MW-1 Cyclone RCM
MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s -
Jinjuku is back, OMG, let the entertainment begin! Every site needs ITS Jester!Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
Sad really. It's like a virus! I recently read on another audio forum that Monitor 10's are best for low power applications. And that a small pair of old Warfdales are better than Polk speakers and a pair of Boston A400's.--Gary--
Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out. -
Sad really. It's like a virus! I recently read on another audio forum that Monitor 10's are best for low power applications. And that a small pair of old Warfdales are better than Polk speakers and a pair of Boston A400's.
That is because they have never heard my 10's
with better equipment and better cables, and anyone with a keyboard can make a comment!
2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
DarqueKnight wrote: »So there you have it: Some people believe (or want to believe) that Club Polk is a "bastion of lunacy" and a "den of internet thugs" whose members are:
1. Psychoacoustical Neanderthals.
2. Chimps.
3. Audiophools.
4. Thugs.
5. Lunatics.
To my knowledge, and Mr. Brown/Jinjuku/Habanero Monk can correct me if I am wrong, no one at Club Polk has ever created thread after thread whose purpose is to bash another forum and its members. The thread cited above was ostensibly about an Ethernet audio cable test, but see how quickly it devolved into a bitching and whining "troll therapy" session about Club Polk in general and about me in particular.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it is obvious that the anger and hostility directed toward Club Polk by these individuals is simply due to the fact that trolls cannot come here and run amok.
I have stated it a number of times before Ray, and will continue to do so in the future. Projection is the most used psychological "tool" in current society. It is used by The President all the way "down" to the local grocery store clerk.
Perhaps it is being used in the case(s) above. After all, who are acting like a group of "internet thugs", while bashing Club Polk? I will stop there as I am sure you get the idea.
I am happy that "we" (including Polk Forum members and moderators, and of course being the members with positive intentions towards our forum) are able to prevent others from acting like "Internet thugs" on our forum. Are we curt with others somethimes? Absolutely. Are we doing it to be "thuggish"? Absolutely not, and our forum members never initiate confrontations with others. That is fact and not "my perception".
Thanks Ray for the great post.Post edited by headrott on
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I'm just curious about how they get away with spouting such garbage over there. I mean, nobody else calls them on the carpet ? Mods...other members ?
I'm surprised too because AVS has some exceptional members over there who also don't suffer trolls very well.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Well it does say they are "special members"..
What does that mean?
Are they
special "members", where "member" is an bodily appendage,
"special" members, where "special" is like "special needs" or "special ed",
or
"special members", which means a bodily appendage with special needs?
I'm just curious about how they get away with spouting such garbage over there.
Jinjuku-Monk would be a good person to answer this, but it is highly doubtful that he will, as he seems to be MIA lately. However, WilliamM2/WilliamZX11 might agree to provide some insights for us.I mean, nobody else calls them on the carpet ? Mods...other members ?
It's obvious that some of the mods agree with and facilitate the behavior.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Forums have a personality that reflects its members. The few times I have tried to follow threads over there I quickly grew bored and tired. The group mentality doesn't seem to accept that gear can be better than entry level gear. Just yesterday I was reading a thread where somebody wanted to know if a standalone DAC could be better than his Oppo 93. Obviously, the answer is "Of course", but people were telling him no. Higher priced DACs are a waste of money, and the Oppo 93 is fine.
I was just looking at another thread where they are arguing a $20 CD player is as good as a $20,000 CD player.
I suspect that since they accept ads from low end vendors that is a reason why mods encourage low end threads, and discourage high end threads.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
67jason seems especially b u t t hurt, so being curious as to the nature of his pain I took a look here for the source.
He was noted for posting this at AVS,Amps should be bought for their features and power ratings, not in how they sound.
There were a number of responses to his misinformed opinion including this one from me,I culled your posts over there. I see you got into an entry level consumer AVR, entry level consumer speakers and entry level consumer cable last year, which is all fine and dandy. I'm curious though, have you ever owned anything other than entry level consumer gear because I see you still haven't learned the difference between an amp and an AVR, which when coupled with your quoted comment at the beginning of this thread naturally leads one to believe that you do not possess the experience and knowledge needed to formulate an opinion on the matter.
So, it would seem that I am, in part, responsible for his b u t t hurt. Oh well, some folks can't handle the truth.
Additional musings....I noted that 67jason has a '67 Bug as his avatar at AVS, so I'll presume that is his car or his dream car. Therefore, it strikes me as odd that he thinks features and power are important aspects when said vehicle is devoid of either.
Post edited by F1nut onPolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I love the chimps part of this....never underestimate the intelligence of chimps......
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67jason seems especially b u t t hurt, so being curious as to the nature of his pain I took a look here for the source.
He was noted for posting this at AVS,67jason wrote:Amps should be bought for their features and power ratings, not in how they sound.
If someone is of the mindset that all amps sound alike, then it follows that they would believe that evaluating amps based on sound quality is a waste of time.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Amps should be bought for their features and power ratings, not in how they sound.
OMG...did someone REALLY say that? That is the funniest dumbest **** I have ever heard! lol
--Gary--
Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out. -
Amps should be bought for their features and power ratings, not in how they sound.
OMG...did someone REALLY say that? That is the funniest dumbest **** I have ever heard! lol
And here I thought the sound mattered.....
I am learning every day
Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
And here I thought the sound mattered.....
I am learning every day
It's not that they don't think that the sound matters. They think that everything sounds alike, therefore it does not make sense to them to use sound quality as an evaluation metric because any modern amplifier with reasonable design and build quality will sound like any other modern amplifier with reasonable design and build quality.
In their world, audio electronics are commodities.
Commodity - The exact definition of the term commodity is specifically used to describe a class of goods for which there is demand, but which is supplied without qualitative differentiation across a market.
http://beginnersinvest.about.com/cs/commodities/f/whatcommodities.htmProud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »And here I thought the sound mattered.....
I am learning every day
It's not that they don't think that the sound matters. They think that everything sounds alike, therefore it does not make sense to them to use sound quality as an evaluation metric because any modern amplifier with reasonable design and build quality will sound like any other modern amplifier with reasonable design and build quality.
In their world, audio electronics are commodities.
Commodity - The exact definition of the term commodity is specifically used to describe a class of goods for which there is demand, but which is supplied without qualitative differentiation across a market.
http://beginnersinvest.about.com/cs/commodities/f/whatcommodities.htm
DK, sorry but I was being a bit cute.
While I certainly don't have anywhere the knowledge that you and many others have I do have enough experience to know they can all be a lot different. I wasn't sure how much difference cables would make, but I read a lot on this forum and tried a few for myself. They do make a difference!!
I can't afford to get everything I would like to, but since joining this forum I do have a lot better sound thanks to you and several other members here.
I do know what a commodity is, we strive at work not to participate in that area, to offer "engineered" products only.
Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
I tend to ignore the insignificant that are obviously just being objectionable; it's a strategy I recommend. In my mind, people who continously object to an idea, rather than simply stating their opinion and moving along---have insecurity issues. IOW, they are just not content with stating their opposition, they feel like they need to make you think like them; no respect for differing opinions. I concede to (as an example) non-cable believers; I get it, you're not hearing a difference, therefore spending alot of money on cables is not a good move for you--and doesn't make much sense to you. Amen--- I hear ya; but why attack the credibility of others who haven't had the same experience as you?
It reminds me of the atheist conflict. You have people who are atheist; ok cool, you don't believe in God--hey it's a free country. Then you have the vindictive atheist, who not only do not believe, but call people who do "idiots" and "morons" and praying to a "false sky-ghost" and go on a personal mission to take away meaningful things from believers---IOW, can't respect the fact that other people are entitled to their opinions as well.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
This thread alone is worth revisiting.
AVS...no.
It is like Camelot...a silly place.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Reading the AVS threads was rather interesting. The theory of "Everything matters" doesn't seem to be held in high regard over there.
I'd have to disagree with that viewpoint.
Everything DOES matter or at least has an effect.
If we haven't been able to develop a means of measuring what effect a change in a component has on a system doesn't mean that there is no effect.
A "proof" for that change may not have been developed yet, or the way we have for measuring that change are not being used correctly.
A bumblebee used to be thought to not be to be able to fly, technically.
Yet, we've all seen bumblebees fly.
A person who had never "seen" a bumblebee fly could assume that those who have seen a bumblebee fly are either lying or deluded.
"Impossible ! Bumblebee wings have been measured and are shown to be inadequate to provide the necessary lift for flight in wind tunnel tests !"
And they would be "right".
So how is it that bumblebees can fly then ?
It's because "we" were initially measuring the wrong things.
We measured with fixed-wing aircraft in mind, the things we we were familiar with.
If we had instead measured wing speed, we'd have seen that the wings actually "flap" a little faster, enough for the bumblebee to maintain flight for very short periods of time.
How do they stay in flight for longer periods ?
If we measure their flight patterns, we'd see that they fly in figure-8 patterns. This enables them to maintain flight for longer periods.
So we could have spent our time trying to convince bumblebees that they can't fly, or acknowledge that "Hey, they can !" and figuring out where our reasoning or what we're measuring is wrong.
Same thing with audio.
Just because I might not be able to hear a difference doesn't mean there isn't one when a different component is used. More than likely that is because my "measuring tools" (ears) aren't up to the task for smaller measurements (thanks to steam turbines, 2000 ton chillers, Mott the Hoople & Robin Trower concerts, etc).
BTW: the other forum members don't hold the use of analogies in high regard, either. A data-backed graph is preferable, I suppose, but analogies can make a point also, IMO. Especially when we haven't discovered the necessary tools for measuring differences.Sal Palooza -
BTW: I'm still getting paid by the word, right ? Because if I'm not, I'm just going to have to shorten up my posts !!
Sal Palooza -
The avs forum is silly and people are afraid of the polkies because we represent the hobby.
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I have just been amazed at the nonsense posted there. All DACs are basically the same, all CD players are basically the same, all amps are basically the same. Yikes!!! These guys are either deaf, or have never tried anything.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
polkfarmboy wrote: »The avs forum is silly and people are afraid of the polkies because we represent the hobby.
I... I just don't know what to say...
; - ) -
That's where I bought a Camel and it came with a Toe...lolErik Tracy wrote: »This thread alone is worth revisiting.
AVS...no.
It is like Camelot...a silly place.
ATC SCM40's,VTL TL 2.5 Preamp,PSB Stratus Goldi's,McCormack DNA 500,McCormack MAP-1 Preamp,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT,Ortofon Cadenza Red/Nordost RedDawn LS Speaker cables, Bryston BDP-2, Bryston BDA-2,PS Audio AC-3 power cables -
2007 Club Polk Football Pool Champ
2010 Club Polk Fantasy Football Champ
2011 Club Polk Football Pool Champ
"It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!" -
I must say, for a "science oriented" forum, this AVS moderator isn't very good in math.
"Super Moderator" DrDon mentions removing "a whole LOT of posts", but I only counted 5 removed posts, three of which were mine. Five out of 111 is 4.5%. I do not think 4.5% of anything is considered a "whole LOT" by any reasonable measure.
I made my last post in the thread at 12:10 am on 8/29/14. DrDon says he came by a little over an hour later at 1:20 am and deleted "a whole LOT of posts".
I made a PDF of the last page of the thread with my comments and a PDF of the super moderated edited page. Those PDFs are attached. It strikes me as odd that I was accused of bickering when I did nothing more than address previous comments in a very straightforward and respectful manner. I'm not complaining, just making an observation.
The AVS thread is here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/153-cd-players-dedicated-music-transports/1531056-differences-sq-ethernet-cable-challenge.html
Anyway, I posted my answers to Jinjuku-Monk in this thread and sent him a PM invitation (copied to moderator Ken) on 8/29/14 to come and discuss. This past weekend was a holiday weekend, so perhaps Habanero Mark didn't have time for audio-related discussion. However, if I don't hear from Jinjuku-Brown in the next couple of days, I think it is safe to assume that he has nothing further to say...on this forum. Such reticence from someone known for his effusive verbosity is baffling indeed.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
I would bet Mr Brown/Hab monk/jinjuk is now posting here and elsewhere under a few new names.Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC
Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords
I’M OFFENDED!!!! -
I read the whole thread and i must say, i don't know which one of them is a bigger touch-hole*.
I don't know why you guys frequent that place. Besides for the blatant porting between juju and gang, their mods are absolute jokes to boot. Is that how the rest of the forum operates?
Definition of Touch-hole http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=touchhole
Definition of Porting http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Porting&defid=5909157Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!! -
I don't know why you guys frequent that place.
The only Club Polk member, that I know of, who frequents AVS is WilliamM2 (WilliamZX11 on AVS). He is an "AVS Special Member" whatever that means.
I have 66 posts on AVS since December 2007, so I can't be considered someone who frequents that forum.Is that how the rest of the forum operates?
I don't know. I know that some people characterize AVS as an anti-audiophile forum. AVS is also characterized/generalized as a place where people banned from other audio forums congregate. However, I haven't spent sufficient time there to know if the entire, or most, of AVS is typical of the member and moderator behavior shown in the thread I cited.
I joined AVS because there was a lot of good information and discussion on Pioneer Blu-ray players and Pioneer Elite Plasma televisions around the time that I was upgrading my home theater electronics. There are only a handful of AVS members who have shown consistent antagonism and animosity toward me, and two of those were the same person.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf3rfTMvyHQ
This discussion has been closed.