Here we go
Comments
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More than welcome Bruce. Now you know what drug store and engineering firms to avoid too.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
westmassguy wrote: »More than welcome Bruce. Now you know what drug store and engineering firms to avoid too.
That is true. After listening to them for a couple hours they are sweet. My wonderful wife even says they sound good. She did ask if I was selling the 12's. I think I will put forth a half hearted effort to sell them after I re-veneer them, but may just hide them in a store room in the house. -
Enjoy them. Something tells me they're not even burned in yet.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Since this is the first time I have heard or had any experience with SDA's. a couple of questions come to mind. How much of a sound difference will there be with the interconnect connected vs disconnected? Will it be a dramatic difference? And is it ok to connect and disconnect the cable will they are playing to distinguish the difference or will that cause damage?
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A lot depends on other factors. Room placement, boundary walls, the recording itself, etc.Since this is the first time I have heard or had any experience with SDA's. a couple of questions come to mind. How much of a sound difference will there be with the interconnect connected vs disconnected? Will it be a dramatic difference? And is it ok to connect and disconnect the cable will they are playing to distinguish the difference or will that cause damage?
If you're in the sweet spot, which is essentially an equilateral triangle, the sound should extend well beyond the speakers on either side, depending on the recording. I've experienced ambient information coming in from the sides, if it was in the recording, the SDAs will reproduce it as it was intended. Disconnecting the Interconnect during playback will not harm anything. If your sitting in the sweet spot, and someone disconnects the interconnect, the extended sound field will collapse more or less back to the speakers themselves. That's about the best way I can describe it.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
DyslexiaWell I checked all the wiring and all 4 tweeters were hooked up out of phase and the binding posts are wired in reverse of the diagrahm on the back of the cabinets. All is corrected and they sound great. Thanks for the assistance Dave.
Damn, sounds like the previous owner was suffering from Dyslexia, glad you figured it out and are enjoying your new 1C's! -
westmassguy wrote: »Enjoy them. Something tells me they're not even burned in yet.
After listening to them for several days and comparing them to the 12c's, I have to believe the caps are not burned in. High end is not as sweet as it should be and the low end is blah. Just my opinion. But, I am going to put on a FM station on low over night for the next week or two and see how they evolve. -
Did you confirm whether the Polyswitches were removed Bruce? Also check that the Silver Micas were removed when the Mylars were changed out. The Bass on the 1Cs will improve dramatically when the Sub-Bass Drive Inductors are changed.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Poly switches are still there. Have not pulled the c/o out to look them over yet.
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That could explain the top endHome Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
After listening to them for several days and comparing them to the 12c's, I have to believe the caps are not burned in. High end is not as sweet as it should be and the low end is blah. Just my opinion. But, I am going to put on a FM station on low over night for the next week or two and see how they evolve.
I am not of the camp that clings to the burn in theory as perfect as it is presented most times. Good caps should sound good as soon as they are installed. period! They may or may not tend to improve somewhat over time (depending on the particular cap and its design). However they don't necessarily dstop changeing when they hit that . That is why caps get old and need replaceing (albeit some types are much worse that others, none last forever). Imagine them kind of like people, paint, water temp, and almost anything else that ages or wears. There will be a point where all is at its best but it does not stay that way forever.
My point is that if they sound blah now with good caps installed, they may or may not improve with burn in, but after that they will progress towards blah again at some point. maybe the plateu at that point will be a long one maybe not.
This is a big reason for my initial post in your thread here. many truly love the 1C's. however, there are many that do not because they tend to sound blah to them. I am certainly one that falls into the Blah camp. Don't get me wrong, if I had never heard as many other speakers as i have or had other SDA's i may not know the difference and may not realize they sound blah.
Good luck with them. i hope you figure them out and enjoy them. I really wanted to like mine but I never was able to enjoy either pair that I owned. Though i still own 1 pair in hopes of building a set of SRS 2's one day if I am never able to purchase a pair.If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of Progress?!
Monitor 5Jr, Monitor 5, RTA12, RTA 15TL, SDA 2A, 1c, SRS 2, 1.2TL, CRS, Atrium. -
Mr. Bubbles, you just opened a can of worms there regarding "Burn-In"
Also, to my knowledge, metalized polypropylene caps do not age, the way electrolytics do. At least within our lifetime.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
I know. There are burn in die hards and those that don't believe in it at al, and then those like myself that can see a difference but don't really believe things get to that perfect point and then just stay there. Either way it is what it is. My main point was that good caps should sound good upon initial installation. Whether they sound better later is irrelevant. when it comes to men speakers are somewhat like women. There is a general consensus of what is hot and what is not but individual taste also plays a huge role in final selection. To me the 1C's are like that extrememly good looking woman that you want to experience real bad. Once you get her home, she's still beautiful and still turns you on but some of the things you get from her do no please you the way you hoped or expected. Kind of like my ex. nice to look at but I don't want to listen to her. Shes now past her prime too. (A lot like myself).If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of Progress?!
Monitor 5Jr, Monitor 5, RTA12, RTA 15TL, SDA 2A, 1c, SRS 2, 1.2TL, CRS, Atrium. -
I agree, SDAs are not for everyone, and certain models sound better to different people. In this case, we've already identified one potential problem the Polyswitches, and there could be others not yet identified.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
I owned a pair of 1C's, and they definitely were not dull. I bought them in stock condition, did the typical Sonicap/Mills upgrades, RD-0194's, replaced the 16mH inductor with an Erse, and pulled the polycaps. I also did rings, dynamat, and armacell. Those speakers rocked. I loved those speakers, and only sold them because I needed to downsize, so I built a pair of 4.1TL's. crispybrown now owns them, and he loves them as well.
The caps definitely needed burn in. I had them playing non-stop for over a week, and the differences I heard as I checked in on them during the burn in period were not subtle. After initial installation, I'd go so far as to say they sounded really bad. After about 50 hours they totally opened up. Then they got worse. Then they got better.
Power matters. I had a modded NAD 2200 that sounded great with 2B's, but just didn't cut it for my 1C's. When I got my Krell amp, those 1C's blew my mind.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Westmassguy, That's one thing that drew me to this site is all the helpful knowledge from other members. I hope he gets them going properly and ends up likeluing them. I know I really wanted to like mine. It just never happened. I love my SDA's though. If i had to settle on one it would be the 2A/B's. I am sure you enjoy yours.
In checking out your sig, I looked back at your rear and side surrounds. Nice work. I had seen your center before but somehow missed the surrund thread.If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of Progress?!
Monitor 5Jr, Monitor 5, RTA12, RTA 15TL, SDA 2A, 1c, SRS 2, 1.2TL, CRS, Atrium. -
I think there's some other problems Bruce needs to investigate. I saw a photo of one crossover, and know a little about the guy he bought them from. He'll get it straightened out.I owned a pair of 1C's, and they definitely were not dull. I bought them in stock condition, did the typical Sonicap/Mills upgrades, RD-0194's, replaced the 16mH inductor with an Erse, and pulled the polycaps. I also did rings, dynamat, and armacell. Those speakers rocked. I loved those speakers, and only sold them because I needed to downsize, so I built a pair of 4.1TL's. crispybrown now owns them, and he loves them as well.
The caps definitely needed burn in. I had them playing non-stop for over a week, and the differences I heard as I checked in on them during the burn in period were not subtle. After initial installation, I'd go so far as to say they sounded really bad. After about 50 hours they totally opened up. Then they got worse. Then they got better.
Power matters. I had a modded NAD 2200 that sounded great with 2B's, but just didn't cut it for my 1C's. When I got my Krell amp, those 1C's blew my mind.Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Yeah lots of great people on here. I love my 2ATLs, I've run them side by side with 2Bs, same mods, and there's literally no difference in SQ.Mr. Bubbles wrote: »Westmassguy, That's one thing that drew me to this site is all the helpful knowledge from other members. I hope he gets them going properly and ends up likeluing them. I know I really wanted to like mine. It just never happened. I love my SDA's though. If i had to settle on one it would be the 2A/B's. I am sure you enjoy yours.
In checking out your sig, I looked back at your rear and side surrounds. Nice work. I had seen your center before but somehow missed the surrund thread.
Thanks on the surrounds. I really strived to make the entire system vintage, and timbre matched as close as possible. They're big, and not for everyone, but I don't have a WAF to deal with
Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Well I checked all the wiring and all 4 tweeters were hooked up out of phase and the binding posts are wired in reverse of the diagrahm on the back of the cabinets. All is corrected and they sound great. Thanks for the assistance Dave.
Tis always easier than it seems -
So what exactly are you looking to buy or sell Phatattack?"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
westmassguy wrote: »A lot depends on other factors. Room placement, boundary walls, the recording itself, etc.
If you're in the sweet spot, which is essentially an equilateral triangle, the sound should extend well beyond the speakers on either side, depending on the recording. I've experienced ambient information coming in from the sides, if it was in the recording, the SDAs will reproduce it as it was intended. Disconnecting the Interconnect during playback will not harm anything. If your sitting in the sweet spot, and someone disconnects the interconnect, the extended sound field will collapse more or less back to the speakers themselves. That's about the best way I can describe it.
one of the turn offs for me was the "sweet spot" I'm one of the few here not smitten with SDA....I guess I'm just to conventional...hahaha its like you need a perfectly set up room with 1 chair....
sorry guys just breakin' beans...Marantz 1152 DC- Denon DP 1200, Soundsmith Carmen MKII- ADS L980 - Blue Jeans IC's -
Lots of input and thoughts. I am not as educated as many here when it comes to electronics and don't know if I would hear differences in sound with every little tweak to a system, but as the new caps on my 12c's burned in there was a dramatic difference. They went from ok to wonderful. Even a friend of mine could not believe how things improved after 250 hours of play time. I will pull the crossovers on the 1c's and look things over, replace the ps with resistors and possibly upgrade the inductors. I plan to also do all the other tweaks with dynamat, hurricane nuts etc. I may find that I still am not impressed and move on.
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First order of business is to get that interconnect cable. Without that your not experiencing what they can do and why have them then ? Also, no....not a good idea to start pulling cables while everything is up and running. Basic audio 101 if you ask me.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Here are some pictures of one of the crossovers. Solder points look good. Cap and resistor values look right. Poly switch is still in. Anyone see something amiss?
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Yeah Bruce, the Silver Mica Caps are still in place which could be causing the problems your having with the RDOs. Just de-solder them, do not jumper. Replace the Polyswitches with two 1 ohm resistors in parallel..Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Here's how to parallel and mount the resistors to the bottom of the board. I use a strip of 3M VHB tape under them.
Home Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Sounds good. Is the silver mica caps the brown component next to the yellow poly switch? Not familiar with them.
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Yup, not required with Metalized PolypropylenesHome Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
Sweet. Will take care of those 2 items and let them burn in a bit. Thanks
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You are welcome SirHome Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/
