Bi-Wire Analysis

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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited February 2004
    Oh well, just have to work with this for now.
    Never Forget
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited February 2004
    From what I can see, the results look the same.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • kvm
    kvm Posts: 10
    edited February 2004
    actually, i think you'll find the a lot of the bi-wire/boutique cable defenders *don't care* if it accurately reproduces the original recording, only that it "sounds better" to their golden ears.

    and you can't really argue with that now can you??


    How can you not care if it is an accuate reproduction?
    Isn't that the point of having a good system?
    Bi-wiring either makes an audible difference or it doesn't.
    Front RTI70's
    Center CSI40
    Bi-amped with a Marantz SR7300OSE and Marantz MM9000
    Rear FXI50's
    Sub PSW404
    HDTV Hitachi 57S500
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  • Loud &amp; Clear
    Loud &amp; Clear Posts: 1,538
    edited February 2004
    From Signal Cable's website to your ears...

    "If your speakers are bi-wirable and you would like to bypass the supplied jumpers for a more direct and timing corrected connection, you can simply take advantage of the internal bi-wire configuration [oh, and I have]. You will notice a better balance between the low and high drivers."

    Now put that in your speaker wire and smoke it, boys.

    Two Channel Setup:

    Speakers: Wharfedale Opus 2-3
    Integrated Amp: Krell S-300i
    DAC: Arcam irDac
    Source: iMac
    Remote Control: iPad Mini

    3.2 Home Theater Setup:

    Fronts: Klipsch RP-160M
    Center: Klipsch RP-160M
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12NSD (X 2)
    AVR: Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030
    Blu Ray: Sony BDP-S790
    TV Source: DirecTV Genie
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  • TheMaster
    TheMaster Posts: 184
    edited February 2004
    "Is it going to prove anything definitively? No, but who cares, sheesh let the man experiment, he's not trying to cure cancer for gosh sakes."

    Amen to that...
    HT:

    DENON AVR-3803
    DENON DVM-1805
    SONY DVP-NS300

    SONY 36' HDTV Wega

    ADCOM GFA-555
    ADCOM GFA-555
    ADCOM GFA-2535
    ADCOM ACE-515

    POLK RTi70's (Bi-Amped)
    POLK CSi40
    POLK FXi30's
    POLK RTi38's
    POLK CSi20
    POLK PSW 450
    SVS PB2 Plus

    2 CH Stereo:

    AudioSource Pre/Amp 1
    Hafler DH-500
    Sony CDP-CX235
    Monster Cable HTS3500

    SDA SRS 2.3tl
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited February 2004
    PolkThug
    Yes it looks the same to me as well.I gotta ask you,can you hear any difference?Anything?

    Now my question here is this......If you use a higher quality wire in a single vs the lower quality bi wire,which sounds better?

    Run your test with that in mind,I'd like to see it.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited February 2004
    Originally posted by Frank Z
    From what I can see, the results look the same.

    I can see some small variations betwen the the two with more hits on the blue. Very tough to see but cool none the less. The x-axis is not the same for both graphs.... and is it reflective of spectral density?

    way ta go Toby! serious cool factor here!


    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited February 2004
    Question with regards to the plots you are getting ...

    Is it possible if you will to subtract one from the other or in other words show what you are getting in one that you are not getting in the other ?

    Sometimes less information is more ...
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited February 2004
    Originally posted by PolkWannabie
    Question with regards to the plots you are getting ...

    Is it possible if you will to subtract one from the other or in other words show what you are getting in one that you are not getting in the other ?

    Sometimes less information is more ...

    friggen GREAT thought! exactly what I was trying to do.

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited February 2004
    Thanks for everyone's support. Hopefully I can post some more useful info, but this week I had a 60+ hour work week, on top of Qualitative Management homework, and I'm giving a presentation on Break-Even Analysis tomorrow :(

    What sucked about this is cutting pasting and shrinking 4MB graphs down to 100k. I may redo some of the bi-wire samples becuz some dark blue dots got lost in the jpg compression.

    There is more I want to add to this, but its going to have to wait til later in the week.

    Peace,
    PolkThug
    Never Forget
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited February 2004
    You know why people get so pissed about this experiment, they're about to find out they wasted their money on a second set of cables......Ahhhhhhhhhhhh..I'm kidding, hey stop throwing stuff..ouch...I'm kidding, relax...sheesh.

    Really though, I find it an interesting topic. Though your conclusions will change nothing. People are going to invest in things that they feel improve their systems.

    People could argue with me for days that 10awg Monster cable is just as good as my Audioquest Granite, and hell, they may even be right--but will I change to Monster cable? Hell no. I like the way Granite speaker cables sound.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited February 2004
    Yeah, I think I'm gonna go back to single runs of 12 gauge wire just so I have less wire laying around.
    Never Forget
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  • PhantomOG
    PhantomOG Posts: 2,409
    edited February 2004
    Originally posted by steveinaz
    ...Hell no. I like the way Granite speaker cables sound.

    you know, maybe this whole passionate debate about cables all boils down to each person's philosphy about "sound".

    being an engineer and having a lot of faith in "science", I am a firm believer in the fact that EVERY aspect of "sound" can be absolutely measured and quantitatively characterized. does anyone on this board own the equipment to do this? nope. do all the manufacturers of exotic cables own this equipment? good question...

    if you believe that "sound" is some magical thing that mankind has not yet reached the ability to completely dissect and quantify, then don't bother arguing with the "science" crowd because the two views are completely incompatible.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited February 2004
    Although I am not a believer in bi-wiring per se, I support anyone who IS a believer as long as they obtained that belief via an objective test where they didn't know what they were listening to in advance but could fairly consistantly pick out the difference between bi-wired and not when the same cables were used for both tests. I haven't come across many who have gone to the trouble of testing that way and can identify which is which.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2004
    Of course, if believers ask you if you have participated in a double blind single/ bi-wire test and failed to discern a difference, your answer would be... ?
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited February 2004
    I have and for the most part I am unable to consistantly discern the differences between the two.

    My personal belief, right, wrong or indifferent is that an adequately amplified set of speakers using a good set of cables will not sound any better bi-wired, but then again maybe I'm just going deaf.

    However, I usually do hear differences between single wired speakers and those being passively or actively bi-amped although the number of speakers out there that were designed to be actively biamped without performing surgery on the speakers themselves are limited.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2004
    Originally posted by PolkWannabie
    ... then again maybe I'm just going deaf.
    LOL... I hear you, at least I think I hear something. :)
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited February 2004
    As cool and fun this might be.........

    Taking a blind test is all thats nessary.Listen and you'll see
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2004
    Dan,
    Agree. The only problem is setting up a double-blind test (the only statistically valid test) to take.

    PW is the first I've ever seen post here that he's actually participated in a double blind. And I can't recall any blind tests.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited February 2004
    Presactly. Nothing, nada, null, zippo ... But again that's just my ears ... and for the most part those that I've seen take blind tests.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • Violator
    Violator Posts: 20
    edited February 2004
    Im just gonna throw in my two sense here. I had my system bi-wired and i noticed more resolution to the music. It was more spacious and 3d sounding. Which is good. But then after some time listening to them I noticed that the voices of people singing almost kind of had an echo behind it. And it didnt sound like the real peoples voices like it does when i hook up one set of wires. But then there is the other issue of my wire quality and speed. Its so hard to say if it is better. It really just depends on what you prefer. But for right now im using just one set of wires. Im going to get Signal Cables Double Run bi-wire and then ill let you guys konw how i like that. But for now. My monstercable single run sounds best!
    Harman Kardon AVR 230
    Harman Kardon 400 Watt amp
    2 Polk RTI70's
    2 Polk RTI38's
    2 Paragon Pro Series
    1 Rockford fosgate car sub
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  • wlrandall
    wlrandall Posts: 440
    edited February 2004
    does anyone on this board own the equipment to do this? nope. [/B]

    I may not own it, but knowing it's right under my office....hmmm. Now I just need the time to play in here:

    sans.jpg
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