Does high quality digital cables matter?
Sumerian
Posts: 490
I am a strong believer of "Cables does matter" I use MIT Shotgun S3's both for my IC's and SC's.
I understand quality of cables make a lot of different wrt analog signal transfer. I hear the difference, I know the difference and there is no doubt about it.
But does this apply to digital cables like USB, HDMI etc.,?
No mater what the cable is , it just 1 and 0 's right? how does the quality of a cable effect in transferring this 1 and 0's
hope this is not a noob question but I am really curious.
I understand quality of cables make a lot of different wrt analog signal transfer. I hear the difference, I know the difference and there is no doubt about it.
But does this apply to digital cables like USB, HDMI etc.,?
No mater what the cable is , it just 1 and 0 's right? how does the quality of a cable effect in transferring this 1 and 0's
hope this is not a noob question but I am really curious.
Post edited by Sumerian on
Comments
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While digital audio does use a very robust system, once the cables get long (let's say about 40 feet) you should use a cable from a good manufacture like maybe Belden or Mogami.
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I would posit that a "good" cable from a brand like Audioquest is MUCH better than your standard USB.
The ONLY usb cable I have seen recommended that was from a computer manufacture was Belkin.
Otherwise just snag a Audioquest Pearl and know you haven't gone crazy price wise, but your better than your 2 dollar USB cord.
As stated length does matter.
What cables are you looking to know about (HDMI, USB) and what length are you looking at? That makes a difference.
There is a thing called "jitter" that can affect digital signals. Lots of reading up on it if you want to know more, I wont profess to totally know everything on this matter so I will let the others chime in."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Not as profound as the differences in analog cables, but they are there.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
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Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Yes I understand that with analog signal where amplitude varies and information should be preserved ... any variations wouldn't result in faithful reproduction at destination.
But with 0 and 1 it will be 0 and 1 at the destination as it cannot become 2 or 3
Anyways even I am not expert ... -
More to it than simple 1's and 0's being transmitted.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
There are a fair number of "discussions" about digital cables and digital transmissions here on the forum if you do a search.
OR, the short answer is "YES".
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
^^ I think the answer is maybe, or they could. Depending on gear and application.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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Just the quality of the build is a difference. The in-the-box generic cables such as USB/HDMI tend to separate at the connectors and you can tell the alloys used are sub par. At least do your system justice using a better quality built cable.
Don't have to spend an arm & leg but the effect can be noticeable as you move up the ladder.2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Yes I understand that with analog signal where amplitude varies and information should be preserved ... any variations wouldn't result in faithful reproduction at destination.
But with 0 and 1 it will be 0 and 1 at the destination as it cannot become 2 or 3
Anyways even I am not expert ...
I can not speak for audio,but for movies,better hdmi certainly makes no difference what so ever..It is 10101010 after all.As long as the quality is decent,and the cable it self is not broken,you should see no difference what so ever in terms of picture quality.
Tonyb-So what else is being transmitted?That is a very vague answer, and doesn't work as well as 'not all watt is created equal'which I concur.
Edit-I have tried the audioquest chocolate hdmi vs my no name amazon brand,so I'm speaking from that perspective. -
A wire is not just connection.
Different wire designs must be considered.
Cat5...not sufficient for 10GbE.
Cat5e and Cat6 yes.
Plug in an older Ethernet cable and expect connectivity just 'cuz its a conductor'...{eeeeee} annoying game show buzzer for wrong answer.....
You can say 'ones and zeros' and a piece of wire is all that matters for connectivity - and you are SO wrong....
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Erik Tracy wrote: »A wire is not just connection.
Different wire designs must be considered.
Cat5...not sufficient for 10GbE.
Cat5e and Cat6 yes.
Plug in an older Ethernet cable and expect connectivity just 'cuz its a conductor'...{eeeeee} annoying game show buzzer for wrong answer.....
You can say 'ones and zeros' and a piece of wire is all that matters for connectivity - and you are SO wrong....
How does bringing up wires with different specification relate anything at all to what I said?In this case I'm talking about DIGITAL hdmi cables as I have no say,nor any experience with different ethernet cable....Why are you comparing hdmi 2.0 to 1.0?I'm making a comparison between cheap hdmi 2.0 spec vs expensive hdmi 2.0.A little reading comprehension goes a long way.
Edit-I actually used them for myself,have you?Also just incase you still don't understand,ill repeat.This is only MY experience with HDMI cable. -
northernwind wrote: »How does bringing up wires with different specification relate anything at all to what I said?In this case I'm talking about DIGITAL hdmi cables as I have no say,nor any experience with different ethernet cable....Why are you comparing hdmi 2.0 to 1.0?I'm making a comparison between cheap hdmi 2.0 spec vs expensive hdmi 2.0.A little reading comprehension goes a long way.
Edit-I actually used them for myself,have you?Also just incase you still don't understand,ill repeat.This is only MY experience with HDMI cable.
Cuz everything matters....
We have done testing at our company for supposedly 'compatible' cabling within the same specification that doesn't work!!
Just cuz some company says they are hdmi x.x whatever compatible or equivalent means NOTHING.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Erik Tracy wrote: »Cuz everything matters....
We have done testing at our company for supposedly 'compatible' cabling within the same specification that doesn't work!!
Just cuz some company says they are hdmi x.x whatever compatible or equivalent means NOTHING.
Oh wow........I'm talking about QUALITY between 2 WORKING CABLES.Not crap cable that doesn't work,while comparing it to perfectly working cables..First you compare ethernet to hdmi,now you compare working cable to non working cable....I've compare no name WORKING cables vs EXPENSIVE hdmi,and they both still do WORK.Obviously spec mean NOTHING if the cables don't work....And plenty of cheap hdmi last...Sorry for the cap,I just don't want to throw off your reading. -
northernwind wrote: »Oh wow........I'm talking about QUALITY between 2 WORKING CABLES.Not crap cable that doesn't work,while comparing it to perfectly working cables..First you compare ethernet to hdmi,now you compare working cable to non working cable....I've compare no name WORKING cables vs EXPENSIVE hdmi,and they both still do WORK.Obviously spec mean NOTHING if the cables don't work....And plenty of cheap hdmi last...Sorry for the cap,I just don't want to throw off your reading.
Oh wow...one would think that in the 'pro' world that spec'd cables and interfaces would work.
Sorry..but that isn't the real world...contrary to internet wanking.
We found out that one vendors spec'd interface wouldn't work with another vendor...even though they claimed on paper they were...imagine that.
What the "F" is "quality"????
Try it and prove it - otherwise sit down and stfu.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Erik Tracy wrote: »A wire is not just connection.
Different wire designs must be considered.
Cat5...not sufficient for 10GbE.
Cat5e and Cat6 yes.
Plug in an older Ethernet cable and expect connectivity just 'cuz its a conductor'...{eeeeee} annoying game show buzzer for wrong answer.....
You can say 'ones and zeros' and a piece of wire is all that matters for connectivity - and you are SO wrong....
CAT5 isn't designed for 10Gbe....
He's not saying you can run 10GBe over a coat hanger. He specifically mentioned HDMI.
An $89 AQ Ethernet cable is going to do no better at transmitting data than a $4 patch cable that also exceeds spec. In this case it is guaranteed that digital is digital. -
There is an annoying buzz...as if....ignored member......
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
northernwind wrote: »How does bringing up wires with different specification relate anything at all to what I said?In this case I'm talking about DIGITAL hdmi cables as I have no say,nor any experience with different ethernet cable....Why are you comparing hdmi 2.0 to 1.0?I'm making a comparison between cheap hdmi 2.0 spec vs expensive hdmi 2.0.A little reading comprehension goes a long way.
Edit-I actually used them for myself,have you?Also just incase you still don't understand,ill repeat.This is only MY experience with HDMI cable.
All you need to know is there are some chumps here that are all talk. All bark no bite.
As a matter of fact I offered, while at the PETT GTG in Dayton, last summer to put together a computer with dual Radeon cards (that max out the HQV Blu-Ray benchmark) all going to a high quality display (with 2 HDMI inputs).
The display would be calibrated for both inputs. A $20 Belden HDMI and any HDMI cable they wanted to bring. I offered up a ~$600 AQ.
With that one could mirror the display and then simply A/B to their hearts content. -
The real reason is no one wanted to travel to Dayton, OH. Having been to Dayton a few times I can't blame them, so sod off with your lies.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
In retrospect while there were a lot of odd responses to the challenge, no one actually said they could do it (that is see the difference).
Very much at odds with all the other HDMI cable threads when it comes to VQ. -
...like a moth to a flame...Jay
SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0 -
Erik Tracy wrote: »Oh wow...one would think that in the 'pro' world that spec'd cables and interfaces would work.
Sorry..but that isn't the real world...contrary to internet wanking.
We found out that one vendors spec'd interface wouldn't work with another vendor...even though they claimed on paper they were...imagine that.
What the "F" is "quality"????
Try it and prove it - otherwise sit down and stfu.
For a 3k plus post member,you absolutely make no sense at all.Are you ADD by any chance?You change topic on the fly,and most of the time what you say does not even relate to the what I'm saying,yet you respond to me.Sry If I knew you were special,I wouldn't even try to debate.Lastly WTF are you talking about?Pro world?I was comparing cheap hdmi to expensive hdmi.also,why would I need to prove my experience to you?Get some help please. -
Is it troll week or something ?
Periodically a few villains tend to blow in with the northernwind
They travel with the monks and sometimes bring ravioli2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »Periodically a few villains tend to blow in with the northernwind
They travel with the monks and sometimes bring ravioli
LOL. On the other hand, there is some fun in watching them make fools of themselves. Especially the ones who take themselves seriously.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
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Three 20 amp circuits. -
txcoastal1 wrote: »Periodically a few villains tend to blow in with the northernwind
They travel with the monks and sometimes bring ravioli
Clever and witty!!!
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
txcoastal1 wrote: »Periodically a few villains tend to blow in with the northernwind
They travel with the monks and sometimes bring ravioli
Maybe I'm buzzed but this cracked me up. Well played... -
I knew this would turn ugly as most cable threads do.
For the posters who claim no difference in 2 cables both meeting spec.....who's specs ? The manufacturers claims of meeting spec isn't necessarily true and there are no steps in place to verify such claims. So starting right off the bat you may or may not be comparing apples to apples. We have a few links from independent labs that did research on these spec claims and they found that alot were not up to spec.
Assuming two different cables meeting spec, what else is there ? Quality of construction, metallurgy used...would you not say that can influence the sound ? How about the speed of the 1's and 0's ? Just a few suggestions that have something to do with the final sound. I do however still hold true to my thoughts that while sound differences in digital cables exist, they are not as profound as analog cables.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Assuming two different cables meeting spec, what else is there ? Quality of construction, metallurgy used...would you not say that can influence the sound ? How about the speed of the 1's and 0's ? Just a few suggestions that have something to do with the final sound. I do however still hold true to my thoughts that while sound differences in digital cables exist, they are not as profound as analog cables.
Tony here is another piece of the pie. We had ordered cables for LSAF (not mentioning the manufacterer tilll the show) one of which is a USB. They are sending an additional USB that has not been released to public but due to the metallurgy it has tested a lower noise floor.2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
I knew this would turn ugly as most cable threads do.
For the posters who claim no difference in 2 cables both meeting spec.....who's specs ?
IEEE.ORGThe manufacturers claims of meeting spec isn't necessarily true and there are no steps in place to verify such claims. So starting right off the bat you may or may not be comparing apples to apples. We have a few links from independent labs that did research on these spec claims and they found that alot were not up to spec.
We used Wavetek 8600. All runs exceed CAT6 sAssuming two different cables meeting spec, what else is there ? Quality of construction, metallurgy used...would you not say that can influence the sound ? How about the speed of the 1's and 0's ? Just a few suggestions that have something to do with the final sound. I do however still hold true to my thoughts that while sound differences in digital cables exist, they are not as profound as analog cables.
Spec is spec. You aren't going to get a cable that measures or exceeds spec and it not do it's job. Speed of 1's and 0's? I do understand you believe what you are saying.
Does anyone want to bet on a certified CAT6 cable vs any AQ Ethernet cable you care to pick? -
Your arguments are valid for simple computer data transfer, however....we don't listen to data on a screen. Simply stating once a cable meets spec....or does it's job, is the be all end all in what it sounds like simply means you have not listened to any other better cables.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Don't waste your time Tony...it's like arguing with a tree."Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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