Paying attention ?

villian

wow!

recoveryone

Well put Tony

steveinaz

WastelandWand'r wrote: »

Steveinaz,

If you feel strongly about it, and your post would suggest that you are, lend a hand and volunteer to take in the cattle.

Of course, a thousand head of cattle usually takes thousands and thousands of acres to keep weight on, unless you are supplementing with feed, which is cost prohibitive, hence the use of Federal lands, which is why there are grazing fees in place for such a thing.

Yelling about someone using Federal lands for grazing private cattle without paying their way makes little to no sense to me.

Am I missing something here? Was he not given the last 20 years to pay the fees?
Nathan

Grazing fees were started to help "push" ranchers off the land that they were able to free range for over a century---because of a TURTLE. This is about the EPA. The man refused to pay the fees, because we was attempting to make a statement.

Imagine:
You buy property that sits on a lake, because you love to fish, water ski, etc. You build your home and enjoy this property for many, many years. The EPA discovers one day that a fish specie in the lake is endangered, and now charges you a fee for lake use, even though when you bought/built there many years ago, there were no such charges. The fees continue to climb, and the pretty soon the EPA puts the lake off limits.

Was the lake yours? No, but you and many others never imagined that one day you'd be denied use of it, and/or pay a fee to use it. This is how the EPA operates. God help you if a spotted owl lands on your acreage, the EPA will eventually sieze control of part or all of your land; because these idiots do not understand A) Owls have wings, and can find another tree to live in. You're not going to bother the owl, you're a cattle rancher, not a timber faller.

Get my point?

steveinaz

You should hear some of the rediculousness of the EPA (DIAPERS ON COWS THAT GRAZE WITHIN 40YDS OF STREAMS) and other looney tunes crap that ends up destroying generations old cattle families. It's ALL ABOUT ending ranching, because the EPA feels it knows better than us, how to manage land (sound familiar?).

Notice beef prices lately? As the EPA "murders" off ranch after ranch, prepare to enjoy higher prices. If this country doesn't pull our heads out of our butts, the entire nation will have a cost of living matching California. Micro-management cost money.

Just like legislators, who attempt to make gun regulation, yet don't have a clue as to how a gun even operates; the EPA is exactly the same. These people aren't scientists, they're HACKS that couldn't cut a regular job in the civilian world, and they are busy "empire building" and creating job security by sticking their f'ing noses in anything possible. I work for the government, 32yrs now, I know how it works.

Enjoy your Chinese steaks.

nooshinjohn

steveinaz wrote: »

Notice beef prices lately? As the EPA "murders" off ranch after ranch, prepare to enjoy higher prices. If this country doesn't pull our heads out of our butts, the entire nation will have a cost of living matching California. Micro-management cost money.

I spotted 7 bucks for freaking hamburger yesterday and 14 bucks a pound for T-bones! This is what happens when militant vegetarians are in charge of the food supply. How do you get people to stop eating meat? Price it our of existence of course. The more ranchers are driven out, the more expensive it gets, and thus the vicious cycle continues.

I have never seen the prices on vegetables so high either. God forbid that we have a major catastrophe here on the west coast or in the heartland, as famine is just that close with the AG policies we have in place. Unless their intent is to have us turn to the Government for food...

fossy

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/

a lot o wrong crap going on in this country

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/north-american-indian-artifacts/408605-fbi-pores-over-thousands-artifacts-indiana-collector.html

it's not just in the USA ... its all inclusive .... world wide .. we are the lucky ones that are allowed by our constitution to have weapons to defend ourselves ...otherwise u have rocks against guns ..

steveinaz

I often wonder how effective Dr. Martin Luther King, jr. would have been from within a "Free Speech Zone."

tonyb

steveinaz wrote: »

I often wonder how effective Dr. Martin Luther King, jr. would have been from within a "Free Speech Zone."

Funny you should mention that. A few select college campuses had set up free speech zones only to be challenged and knocked down by the courts.

Your other points are valid, and certainly worthy of concern, but how to tackle the many facets of these problems going forward is what troubles me. Sooner or later you get to the conclusion that your just spinning your wheels and the game is rigged. Then what ?

You can get hundreds of thousands of signatures on a petition, voice your concerns, write your congressmen or other state/local reps, and still they do what they want in the end. How does this system as it stands today favor the joe citizen ? The card game is rigged to keep you in a box. If your under that box, subsidies and freebies are available to move you into the box. Once inside though, they make it hard to get out of that box on the top side.

Back to ranchers and farmers....which will tippy toe around politics again. If anyone paid attention to the latest U.N. report on global warming, it states we all...as in Americans, need to eat less meat. Less cows...makes it hard to afford red meat, but not for the elite class. Also the EPA is considering a tax on farm produced methane gasses. Translation....cow farts....livestock such as pig farts too. What do you think that will do to the price of meats ? If they can't pass a law due to knowing of a public outcry against it, then they just authorize new agencies and regulations...taxes even, to force the outcome they want. Is that a definition of liberty ? Just to set the record straight here, I'm not against all taxes or all regulations, just those in excess and for political agendas. The people should be able to vote on such matters because we can't even depend on the elected officials to even read the bill they are voting on. Which then begs to question why we even need them in a full time capacity with great benefits and retirement.

Excessive taxation/regulation is a tool used to shape behavior of the masses. Whatever the whim of those in power be, taxation and regulations will represent those whims. Today, it's global warming and the evils associated with it. Livestock...over population...fossil fuels...carbon footprints...yada yada yada. Practically every government agency has been redirected to represent those whims. Our own kids are now taught in schools of the evil of our ways as Americans. Eating red meat...fossil fuels, secured borders..fast foods...all evils of which we Americans have been partaking in. Every new law, new regulation seeks to curb that behavior.

We have most certainly arrived on that slippery slope between constitutional authority and soft tyranny. My hope is that this sole rancher's story can bring some light to the matters that have troubled us for generations. Bring an alarm clock to those still asleep before they wake up and find America as once was, is no longer.

There also happens to be another story in Colorado of a couple who's land is being taken under eminent domain laws for the preservation of Breckinridge mountain. Look that one up too.

steveinaz

Yep Tony, excellent points...Agenda 21 driven. The "Evironmentalists" are becoming "Environmental Terrorist." Instead of using Conservation is positive ways, once again, someone has to make it a power grab, perverting the whole intention of an otherwise good program.

"Range" magazine will really open your eyes to why farmers and cattle ranchers are a dying breed, They've been regulated right out of business. The left constantly moans about "out-sourcing" well, stop over-regulation to the point that people cannot turn a profit anymore in the USA. Most cattle ranchers (Bev's father was one) are not some rich tycoons; quite the contrary, they lived paycheck to paycheck, and worked their asses off for that meager existence. It's unbelievable the amount of regulation there is in the simple task of raising cattle. Most small time ranchers simply can't afford to do business anymore---it's a loser right out of the gate. The EPA has made it nearly impossible for anyone BUT the very wealthiest cattle ranchers to survive/thrive. And they are suppose to be about the "middle class?" yeah, right. Ranchers, farmers, coal miners, and many others are quickly figuring out that the extreme progressives are putting them out of business, and there will be a shift in the politicial horizon soon.

steveinaz

The irony of it all? We end up with products from China replacing OUR products, because all of our guys have closed shop. Do you think those Chinese products get the same scrutiny as our home grown? Not a chance. So what has the EPA accomplished? They've ENDED US farming, brought in a lesser product, that is certainly less safe. We need the EPA for what, again?

pitdogg2

steveinaz wrote: »

. Do you think those Chinese products get the same scrutiny as our home grown? Not a chance.

Well it has already been proven that we cannot trust China to feed us safe food. If you recall they shipped bad baby formula that had VERY NEGATIVE results. Pet food again VERY NEGATIVE results and now most all fish as they tend to use the very banned chemicals that the EPA says will cause Cancer. They use these very same cancer causing chemicals right up to the day of harvest so yes you would get very high concentrations of these chemicals. These chemicals are not even allowed to be used in ANY FOOD ITEMS here in the U.S. but they can be used in the aquarium trade for "ornamental fish" only..

tonyb

We like to call everything a "war" on something Steve. Could this just be a war on cows ?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/14/regulation-nation-breweries-fight-back-against-new-government-grain-rules/?intcmp=latestnews

Brewers have been selling spent grains to ranchers/farmers for years....recycling at it's best, no? But now the FDA has to get it's nose involved and make it too expensive to supply that food to farms cheaply while also adding additional costs to brewers. Beer and beef...that's a mans world right there they are **** with.

tonyb

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Well it has already been proven that we cannot trust China to feed us safe food. If you recall they shipped bad baby formula that had VERY NEGATIVE results. Pet food again VERY NEGATIVE results and now most all fish as they tend to use the very banned chemicals that the EPA says will cause Cancer. They use these very same cancer causing chemicals right up to the day of harvest so yes you would get very high concentrations of these chemicals. These chemicals are not even allowed to be used in ANY FOOD ITEMS here in the U.S. but they can be used in the aquarium trade for "ornamental fish" only..

Well now...we can't supply food with such negative impacts, but it's ok if we eat it when coming in the door from somewhere else ? So this food safety thing is all B.S. then.....RIGHT ? That's the game bro, scare people into safety concerns while ripping apart liberties. It's always because of a safety issue....food...water...terrorist....healthcare...markets....auto....guns....smoking...internet..drugs, etc. You name it, it's in the name of safety that they must control or abolish it. Always a crisis...a safety issue....a security issue at hand to drive new taxes,new laws, and new regulations.

gimpod

Paying attention? Are you kidding me no ones paying attention and worse yet if it doesn't directly affect them no ones cares or is willing to do anything about it and that's the way those in control like it. Like I've said before I doubt if this country has 50 years left, The really sad part is I don't think it can be fixed or saved. Oh well by the time someone finely reaches up and pulls the toilet handle I'll be long gone.


BTW: I'm too old, seen to much BS, been lied to so many times by our so called leaders or those who would like to be that I just don't give a flying **** anymore, so I guess that makes me part of the problem "Apathy".

F1nut

A little revolution, now and then is a good thing.

gimpod

^^ Right on brother, but I think it might take more than a little revolution, but at this point I'd be happy with a big dose of common sense.

nooshinjohn

(In my best Obi-wan voice...)

"I think we better get indoors. The Feds are easily startled but they'll soon be back, and in greater numbers."


Harry Reid today said that things are far from over in this case...

Mikey081057

I thought Harry Reid was elected to represent his constituents interests.... just sayin

F1nut

Mikey081057 wrote: »

I thought Harry Reid was elected to represent his constituents interests.... just sayin

He'll be behind bars soon.

Mikey081057

F1nut wrote: »

He'll be behind bars soon.

Dirty Harry behind bars... That would make my day!

maximillian

This is about fish from China, and it's why I don't eat any foods from there. Many, many supermarkets have frozen fish that are a "product of China". I've already told my wife she can't buy the stuff. I will simply throw it away. The chemicals they use remains in the fish and I don't want it in my body. I can't imagine what's going to happen with beef. No thanks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/05/AR2007070502240.html

tonyb

steveinaz wrote: »

The irony of it all? We end up with products from China replacing OUR products, because all of our guys have closed shop. Do you think those Chinese products get the same scrutiny as our home grown? Not a chance. So what has the EPA accomplished? They've ENDED US farming, brought in a lesser product, that is certainly less safe. We need the EPA for what, again?

Everything is interconnected pal. Another U.N. driven idea is a reduction in world populations. So you get rid of the quality foods, import the crap stuff, while at the same time limiting access to quality healthcare. Notice I said "quality" healthcare. That spells death once your past your productive years of age. Karl Marx said it....your life belongs to the state. What you own belongs to the state also.

You indoctrinate ideals by way of a controlled education system, limit opposing voices by controlling media, and keeping vast amounts of people dependent on government for their survival. Also, the quality of the healthcare you receive is controlled, land use both private and public, and if your wallet is found to be too thick new ways of thinning it out will be thought up. Only a select few who work with and support governments shall be allowed to flourish.

Sound like liberty to you ? America...home of the free ? Not to me it doesn't.

I think many people feel as if something is seriously wrong in our country these days. They can't put their finger on it, can't seem to connect all the dots...and there's many to connect. They have little time and resources to even try and connect the dots so they live in 60 second sound bites while brushing their teeth in the morning or cruising the headlines on the internet. Many simply don't care unless all of this directly effects them personally. Well, it does....anytime you go to the grocery store, fill up with gas, your schools curriculum, cost of goods and services, taxes, etc. Everything is interconnected....controlled to an extent one way or another. Your simply a mouse on a wheel, constantly running.....turning that wheel until your tired and then left to die. You no longer are of any use to the state. Your a drag on society. Sound familiar ? To sum it up in my opinion anyway, everything that has made America unique in the world is being slowly destroyed.

Maybe now would be a good time to revisit an old book....I believe we call it a "dictionary". Look up the words liberty-freedom- U.S. constitution- and Leadership. Spend a couple nights in bed letting what you read soak in.

obieone

The 'Martial Law' experiment worked real well in Boston. Unfortunately, the 'fly-over states' aren't all of the same mind.

tonyb

Hate to bring this thread back to life, but this just keeps getting better and better.....not in a good way either.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/17/sen-reid-calls-supporters-nevada-rancher-bundy-domestic-terrorists/

I guess Mr. Harry Reid has now called all those supporters of the Rancher "Domestic terrorists".

See what I'm saying ? Terminology....anyone voicing their concerns about federal power will now become hunted down as domestic terrorists ? Reid and anyone like him, regardless of party affiliation, are the terrorists to our liberties. How about Reid himself go down there and talk to the Bundys. Probably afraid he'll get shot. So once again brute force will dictate law, right or wrong. Want to make that argument against an armed citizenry now ?

Obviously Mr. Reid is accustomed to getting what he wants. The state needs to get involved because it seems the rancher will only listen to the state....and that may be the ticket for a peaceful solution.

tonyb

Gadzooks....I just read the perfect solution for Mr. Bundy.

He should tell the Feds they are....Mexican cows, came here illegally to pursue better grazing opportunities on Federal land. It was a simply an act of kindness. The feds would turn tail and walk away....maybe even give Mr. Bundy free grain for the cows, HC, even a phone. LOL

F1nut

Harry Reid is a spineless putz.

tonyb

Eh, regardless of the pro's and cons, who's right or wrong, the political aspects of it all, we are talking about cows grazing in open desert here. Hardly worthy of 200 armed federal agents pointing guns at people. Can I expect an Army battalion on my door step if I jay walk on a federal road ? I'd say this thing is getting pretty blown out of proportion and Mr. Reid isn't helping the matters along to a peaceful conclusion.

Mr. Reid has basically challenged the citizenry to a show of force. Doesn't matter who's right or wrong, the use of force always determines that outcome, history tells us so.

I believe personally that the rancher may very well be on the wrong side of the law here, but the federal government and Mr. Reid have zero finesse in bringing about peaceful resolution.

stretchl

How can some cartoonists be so incisive?

"Flag waving white people with guns..."

ROTFLMAO

nooshinjohn

And the humor would be found where exactly?

tonyb

Let it go John. The dudes entitled to his opinion too...as misguided as it is.

Speaking of paying attention. Yet another rancher, this one in Texas, has the BLM looking to take a big chunk of his land which he owns...has the deed to. Also been in the family for 100 years. The BLM'S position....the state had no right issuing deeds for that size of property...80,000+ acres. State had no right ? Again the stage is set for a battle between state and federal powers.