Dedicated power

eclypse

Today I finally got around to picking up enough power line to do 3 separate runs up to my loft where my setup is.. 250' of 10/2. Sure its gona be a couple of weeks before I get time for the big project so I have some questions..

Been looking into getting 3 PS power ports.. then I notice the PS Power Port Premier that cost more but says one would be able to wire up each outlet to a separate circuit. I only see one ground wire connection so how would I go about connection 2 separate lines to it ( 1 on the top and 1 on the bottom plug)???

www.musicdirect.com/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=3062&SEName=ps-audio-power-port-premier&source=igodigital

If I could do that then i'd only have to get 2 Premiums. Or just get 1 Premium and 1 port plus.

Other questions to follow no doubt.

F1nut

To use each connection separately you break the tab on the left and right sides that joins the top and bottom. You would run the ground wires to the ground screw, it's connected to the top and bottom, so both would be grounded.

disneyjoe7

But using 3 circuits with 3 outlets would give you the most options.... Read more outlets.

Glen B

F1nut beat me to it. Insert a screwdriver in the slot in the tab, and bend it back and forth. It should snap right off.



To connect the grounds of the two circuits, first attach a pigtail to the back of the receptacle box, then attach the two ground wires to the end of the pigtail with a wire nut like as shown here:



Also, because you will have two separate circuits attached to a single receptacle, the individual circuit breaker handles for both branch circuits will need to be tied together with an approved handle tie. This is a code requirement to ensure that power to both halves of the receptacle is shut off at the same time.

eclypse

One amp per circut is what i was thinking.. currently 2 amps im use and the other would be everything else off the power conditioner. If i later add a nice sub ill just use that on the 3rd circut and put everything else back on the 15 amp circut. Would be nice to have 4 20 amp runs bit i think the wife would freak on me.. already did when i came home with the 250' of wire hehe. Ea run would be around 65'.

Thanks for the info F1nut! So its do able then. Would be interesting to have 4 runs and only have to install 2 outlets in the wall.. i see 3 holes in my fuse box.. some more breakers are in there like atleast 3 that i have no clue.what there for as there not marked. New 13 year old house that we just bought 4 months ago..

What breakers should i ge? I thought 20 amp but read get 30?

F1nut

With your amps 20 amp breakers will be fine. Technically, you are not suppose to use a 30 amp breaker with a 20 amp outlet. I do, but if I ever move I'll swap a 20 amp breaker back in.

rpf65

10/2 wire you can use up to a 30A breaker. Wire can handle the load.

F1nut

rpf65 wrote: »

10/2 wire you can use up to a 30A breaker. Wire can handle the load.

Yes very true, but code says you have to use a 30 amp outlet....technically. If you're not having the job inspected, code be damned. Just make sure you buy a 20 amp breaker to swap in place if the need arises.

The fact is most amps are not capable of drawing more than 20 amps and for sure, those Emos don't, so there's no reason to use a 30 amp breaker.

eclypse

Sounds like i might just get the 20 amp breaks then.. even if i swap to mono blocks that request 600 watts??


Another dumb question thst i'll bare to ask.. is it ok to have the 3 power lines touch? Routing them threw the floor boards im the basement and up 3 floors i'd figure it would be easier to bundle them up. Each box should be up againt a stud i figure so prob 2-3 large holes ill have to make in the walls to bring them up.. good thing i find patching drywall relaxing.

F1nut

even if i swap to mono blocks that request 600 watts??

What is the maximum wattage draw per amp?

Another dumb question thst i'll bare to ask.. is it ok to have the 3 power lines touch? Routing them threw the floor boards im the basement and up 3 floors i'd figure it would be easier to bundle them up.

I don't know what the code is on that one. Personally, for audio purposes I wouldn't bundle them, but that might just be me.

Speedskater

[Another dumb question thst i'll bare to ask.. is it ok to have the 3 power lines touch? Routing them threw the floor boards im the basement and up 3 floors i'd figure it would be easier to bundle them up.]

Yes it's best to bundle all the cables from one location to another together. It reduces the ground loop type problems. But there are rules about bundling and overheating. so don't over do it.

eclypse

Thought it would make everything easier.. even getting a 3 gang box on one stud would be cleaner looking.. if not then id have to mount one box per stud so id like have to have one box on ea side of the stud and another box 16" away at the nearest stud and 3 sep runs up from the basement 2 floors up to the loft. Would that be the normal way to run it?

Speedskater

A 3 gang box should be fine, But this raises the question: why do you need three circuits to on location? Everything but real big power amps should do just fine on one circuit. In fact, they do better on one circuit at one location than on several circuits scattered about.

eclypse

One for ea amp and one for thr rest.

eclypse

I have placed my order for 2 PS audio power port premiers. That way i can run 3 or 4 circuits to them.

Now i just need to buy a couple of breakers and a 2 gang box that can handle the pressure of pluging cords into them as i've read they can be very tight.


Anything special i should be looking for in a the breakers? Brand/model? Any 20-30amp will do?

F1nut

The blue gang boxes that you insert into the hole you cut in the sheet rock, then tigthen the two screws will work perfectly.

Anything special i should be looking for in a the breakers? Brand/model? Any 20-30amp will do?

You have to use the breaker brand/model that is designed for your panel.

kevhed72

I was thinking the other day....if 10 AWG, why not bump it up to 8AWG? My thoughts were:

A. 8 AWG would be a complete pain to work with
B. Cost of 8 vs. 10 not worth it....

disneyjoe7

Well talking about a 20 amp circuit which is 12g wire, bumping it to 10g wire.... But 8g wire is well over.

czarodzi

couldn't you potentially be creating a ground loop if the preamp source and amps are on different circuits?

eclypse

czarodzi wrote: »

couldn't you potentially be creating a ground loop if the preamp source and amps are on different circuits?

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I might have some time to start drilling some holes to prep this job today and get it done this weekend maybe.

PS Power port premiers are coming today any minute.

Speedskater

It's best to have all signal voltage components on one circuit. But big power amplifiers may need to be on their own circuit. With XLR interconnects this is not a problem, but with RCA's it can be problematic. If you need to use long RCA cables, use a good cable like the Blue Jeans LC-1.

Glen B

eclypse wrote: »

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I might have some time to start drilling some holes to prep this job today and get it done this weekend maybe.

PS Power port premiers are coming today any minute.

Its alright to have gear on different circuits, but those circuits should be on the same 120V leg of the electrical panel. Breakers on the same 120V leg are those on the same horizontal plane across from each other, and every other one in a line going down in a vertical line (see diagram).

eclypse

Ok thanks for the info.. i could just move some stuff around for it.. though it might be impossable as ps audio states i need to use a double 20 amp switch since both outlets will be on its own circuit and have the switches tied together so they both shut down together. The other other power port i could space a slot away or across from the dual switch.

Ill have to check if a.dual slot would still be on one leg.. been watching many videos on youtube hehe.

DarqueKnight

czarodzi wrote: »

couldn't you potentially be creating a ground loop if the preamp source and amps are on different circuits?

eclypse wrote: »

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I might have some time to start drilling some holes to prep this job today and get it done this weekend maybe.

There is a potential problem with ground loops if you have gear in the same system on different legs. Different circuits on the same leg should cause no problem.

The audio and video gear in my home theater system is served by two dedicated 20 amp AC circuits, each on a different leg.

The gear in my two channel system is served by three dedicated 20 amp AC circuits, one circuit each for the monoblock power amps and another circuit for the source components and preamps. I initially had just two dedicated circuits for the two channel system, one for the power amps and the other for the source components and preamps. I read on the Audio Asylum forum where having monoblock amps on different AC legs could result in better sound, so I began to experiment:

1. Starting point: one dedicated 20 amp AC circuit for everything.
2. Two dedicated AC lines, both on the same leg - this was a moderate improvement over just one dedicated line.
3. Two dedicated AC lines, each on a separate leg, both power amps on one leg, source components and preamps on another leg - smaller improvement
4. Two dedicated AC lines, each on a separate leg, one power amp, sources, and preamps on one leg, other power amp on other leg - big improvement.
5. Three dedicated AC lines, each power amp on its own dedicated AC line, the third AC circuit for the sources and preamps on the same leg as one of the power amps - best sound - moderate improvement over case #4.

I could further reduce line noise by installing larger 30 amp wire, but I'll wait until the next house.

FTGV

F1nut wrote: »

.. Technically, you are not suppose to use a 30 amp breaker with a 20 amp outlet. I do, but if I ever move I'll swap a 20 amp breaker back in.

Why the 30 amp breaker?Were you getting nuisance tripping with the 20amp ?

eclypse

Number 5 is where ill go.. but i guess maybe try to get everythjng on one leg if possable.. only way to do that might be thst i use two seperate switches for the one outlet that uses two circuits insted of what pa audio states in using a dual breaker switch with the shutoff switches tied together. I dont see why i could just just label the switches in the box showing there for the same home audio outlet.

CoolJazz

Splitting between the two legs versus keeping it all on one will differ between locals, depending on how balanced the normal draw happens to be and whether components are DC coupled or not. DC coupled across legs WILL induce major hum.

I worked at my house at balancing each leg with the other, keeping noisier draws on the other leg while keeping more steady draw on the leg where I put the equipment. Super power amps might benefit from the each being on a leg, depending on the balance issue.

Keeping a good balance does lower distortion. It's measurable.

CJ

F1nut

FTGV wrote: »

Why the 30 amp breaker?Were you getting nuisance tripping with the 20amp ?

My amp is capable of drawing 1960 watts, slightly over the 20% safety margin and since I ran 10/2 I figured why not.

leftwinger57

If you did not already get those work boxes F-1 talked about here's the names of them. Since your in an exsisting house and your really not dealing w/ open studs then the kind you want are called "old work boxes" or wing boxes. New work boxes are just that, they have nails to drive into the open studs you find in a house that's being built and still has the studs exposed. Old work boxes need no studs but open area of sheet rock, you still should measure and either keep the outlets at code height or in the audio room the same height if your using more than one box. If you ever plan on moving in the future I would keep them at code height so not to attract attention or permit issues. Home Depot has multiple gang boxes both metal or plastic.
http://www.homedepot.com/s/old%2520work%2520box?NCNI-5

eclypse

Yeah i finally picked up a 2 gang thick plastic box "old work" yesterday at home depot. Debated grabing a metal box but they only had singles in the storemand thought it would look bad having two of them next to ea other as the area i have to route them up threw the floors will be like around 6 inches wide im guessing. Tuff route.

Knowing how firm its gona be inserting.and removing the plugs from the ps audio power premiers i'd like a strong box and mount.. prob will brace the drywall between the drywall and tab that secures the box with some strong thin wood so it dont break the drywall. Oh and just grab a metal face plate.


Thanks for the tip on box placement. Yeah doing it to code would be smart.. dont think were moving again but u never know.. theres been i believe 4 different people living in the house the past 13 years for some reason hehe.

Hermitism

When you guys refer to a separate leg or same leg, do you mean the left and right side of the breaker panel? Each side being a leg?