My setup; upgrade sub or speakers??

Sweets10v8
Sweets10v8 Posts: 73
edited March 2014 in Speakers
My setup;
Onkyo 818 receiver
Monitor 50 fronts
CS2 center
Klipsch quintet SL surrounds
Klipsch sub-10

This is my first HT setup for my Epson 8350 projector with 120" screen, the room is 14 x25, main seating is 12-14ft from screen. I use it for almost 100% movies. I would like to get opinions on what would make a bigger impact.

1. Upgrade to monitor 70s for fronts, moving m50s into a rear surround. (From 5.1 to a 7.1)

Or

2. Upgrade my sub to a Klipsch sub-12 or PSW505 sub

Which option would make a bigger impact? Right now I'm only budgeting for 1 of the 2.

Would doing both over time be a big improvement as well?
Man cave:
120" screen
Epson 8350 projector
4 Tap Kegerator

Audio:
AVR: Onkyo 818
Sub: SVS 25-31 PCi
Fronts: RTi 8s
Center: CSi5
Surrounds: FXi 30s
Rears: Monitor 50s
Post edited by Sweets10v8 on
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Comments

  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,779
    edited February 2014
    3- Better sub than both of your choices. That's a pretty big room to pressurize. Save up for a better one and thank me later...
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  • drummer86
    drummer86 Posts: 441
    edited February 2014
    ken brydson wrote: »
    3- Better sub than both of your choices. That's a pretty big room to pressurize. Save up for a better one and thank me later...

    +1 especially if this is primarily a HT setup. Wait as long as you have to. It'll be worth it for sure.
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player
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  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    edited February 2014
    Also agree with sub upgrade.

    I'd go with either the HSU VTF-3 MK4 or SVS PB 2000.
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  • drummer86
    drummer86 Posts: 441
    edited February 2014
    I have the VTF-2 and imagine the VTF-3 would have you grinning ear to ear for a looooong time.
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player
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  • Sweets10v8
    Sweets10v8 Posts: 73
    edited February 2014
    drummer86 wrote: »
    +1 especially if this is primarily a HT setup. Wait as long as you have to. It'll be worth it for sure.
    So it seems everyone agrees on a sub next. What is the best bang for my buck in the $400 range? Is there a point of diminishing returns in the $500-600 range? Just trying to see how long I should save to buy a sub that will fit my needs.

    Any recommendations? I'm not afraid of a used sub either at this point. (ill look at subs already recommended and whats in others sigs)

    Im an automotive guy, and have many times said "Save for as long as you need, even a full year with no upgrades at all. Just so you can afford "these cylinder heads" and you'll be happy for years to come knowing you have the best parts for your combination." So I get what your saying, just don't have the knowledge base yet to know where I need to be.
    Man cave:
    120" screen
    Epson 8350 projector
    4 Tap Kegerator

    Audio:
    AVR: Onkyo 818
    Sub: SVS 25-31 PCi
    Fronts: RTi 8s
    Center: CSi5
    Surrounds: FXi 30s
    Rears: Monitor 50s
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  • drummer86
    drummer86 Posts: 441
    edited February 2014
    Sweets10v8 wrote: »
    So it seems everyone agrees on a sub next. What is the best bang for my buck in the $400 range? Is there a point of diminishing returns in the $500-600 range? Just trying to see how long I should save to buy a sub that will fit my needs.

    Any recommendations? I'm not afraid of a used sub either at this point. (ill look at subs already recommended and whats in others sigs)

    Im an automotive guy, and have many times said "Save for as long as you need, even a full year with no upgrades at all. Just so you can afford "these cylinder heads" and you'll be happy for years to come knowing you have the best parts for your combination." So I get what your saying, just don't have the knowledge base yet to know where I need to be.

    IMO, $500-600 is where the good subs start. Law of diminishing returns doesn't apply yet.
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player
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  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 2,467
    edited February 2014
    ken brydson wrote: »
    3- Better sub than both of your choices. That's a pretty big room to pressurize. Save up for a better one and thank me later...

    +2
    drummer86 wrote: »
    IMO, $500-600 is where the good subs start. Law of diminishing returns doesn't apply yet.

    +1
    Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2

    Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,779
    edited February 2014
    Some nice outlet specials at SVS. PB12NSD on closeout for $599.

    http://www.svsound.com/specials/outlet-specials
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  • aboroth00
    aboroth00 Posts: 1,106
    edited February 2014
    Look locally. Subs are much cheaper locally as sellers don't want to ship such a large item!
    2Ch Tube Audio Convert
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    edited February 2014
    Yep that SVS-PB12 will do the trick, this would as well, and might be a bit more musical with the extra tuning options that the fact that Dr. HSU does not install limiters in his sub amps: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

    I have owned older versions of both, and they are both kick a subs! Don't bother with the psw505, it won't yeild much improvement.

    I would also look used as well; I have bought all my good subs used and never had a problem. but I always buy through ebay or audiogon, that way I can use paypal and buy a squaretrade warranty and the purchase is protected.
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1     Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • drummer86
    drummer86 Posts: 441
    edited February 2014
    Buying used depends a lot on your location. My local CL is an embarrassment and I don't think I could trust an ebay seller shipping a 70lb sub correctly. The VTF-2 linked above would be my choice (obviously, since I own one). It's incredibly musical but can still rattle the foundation of my house during a movie.
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited February 2014
    Sweets10v8 wrote: »
    What is the best bang for my buck in the $400 range? ..........Im an automotive guy...
    So you like to get your hands dirty? Make it a true hobby and put something together. Could go the DIY route.

    Stereo Integrity HT 15" or 18" - $145-$162
    Yung SD500 500 Watt plate amp - $149
    DIY Sound Group Flat Pack - $80-$120 (Or build your own sealed or ported enclosure)
    $374-$431 + cost of S/H & other necessities

    Then... take the project up a level or two with DSP correction

    MiniDSP 2x4 - $105
    UMIK-1 measurement mic - $75
    REW software - free
    $180 + S/H

    So for about $554-$611 + S/H & other necessities one can have pride in DIY and a high price to performance sub system. Going this route myself. Just found a deal on 750 watts of power. A Behringer EP2500 amp with a blown channel for $75! Mono is all I need for now....can fix the channel later if I add a second sub. I'm also thinking about trying out an 818 AVR like you have myself. Been wanting to try XT32 for awhile...


    Links
    http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60
    http://www.parts-express.com/yung-sd500-500w-class-d-subwoofer-plate-amplifier-module-no-boost--301-512
    http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/sealed-subwoofer-flatpacks.html
    http://www.minidsp.com/
    http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=driver&id=46
    http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=90
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • Sweets10v8
    Sweets10v8 Posts: 73
    edited February 2014
    My CL is sucking for 200 miles even. There's a Klipsch reference rw-12II for $399 now to that interests me as we'll. I've never heard a superior sub, so it makes it hard to know what I really want vs what I need.

    DIY is very up my alley. I'd love to DIY it, I'm very mechanically inclined, and I can piece meal which will keep my wife at bay. I just don't understand enough to be confident yet. Is there a standard connection panel for the back? Let me check out links provided.


    Klipsch reference subs still walmart grade vs adding a few hundred?
    Man cave:
    120" screen
    Epson 8350 projector
    4 Tap Kegerator

    Audio:
    AVR: Onkyo 818
    Sub: SVS 25-31 PCi
    Fronts: RTi 8s
    Center: CSi5
    Surrounds: FXi 30s
    Rears: Monitor 50s
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  • Sweets10v8
    Sweets10v8 Posts: 73
    edited February 2014
    Just watched Avatar, again I'm new to this, but there were places I didn't feel the affect I thought was intended for the scene. For instance when they destroyed the super huge tree. It hit the ground and it was underwhelming with my klipsch sub 10.

    I don't want crazy uncontrolled bass like people in thier cars have that is annoying!! I just want the movies to come alive as they are intended!!!!!
    Man cave:
    120" screen
    Epson 8350 projector
    4 Tap Kegerator

    Audio:
    AVR: Onkyo 818
    Sub: SVS 25-31 PCi
    Fronts: RTi 8s
    Center: CSi5
    Surrounds: FXi 30s
    Rears: Monitor 50s
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  • ROHfan
    ROHfan Posts: 1,014
    edited February 2014
    Here's a vote for tactile transducers. Big impact, great upgrade to a system. Yeah, I know, broken record and such.
    TV: 65" Samsung QLED 4K
    Fronts: Energy RC70 --- Center: Energy RC-LCR
    Front Heights: Polk RC65i --- Rears: Polk RC85i --- Sub: Power Sound Audio XS15
    Pioneer VSX-1120K --- Parasound HCA-1000A --- Oppo BDP-103
    Vincent Audio SA31 preamp --- Teac UD301 DAC
    AIYIMA Tube T7 preamp --- Nobsound 12AX7 tube preamplifier
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  • Sweets10v8
    Sweets10v8 Posts: 73
    edited February 2014
    ROHfan wrote: »
    Here's a vote for tactile transducers. Big impact, great upgrade to a system. Yeah, I know, broken record and such.

    No idea what those are, more to research.... Shakers under your seat?
    Man cave:
    120" screen
    Epson 8350 projector
    4 Tap Kegerator

    Audio:
    AVR: Onkyo 818
    Sub: SVS 25-31 PCi
    Fronts: RTi 8s
    Center: CSi5
    Surrounds: FXi 30s
    Rears: Monitor 50s
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  • Sweets10v8
    Sweets10v8 Posts: 73
    edited February 2014
    Don't mean to hijack my own thread but this came up...
    Sweets10v8 wrote: »

    I have two Epik Legend subs for sale. These are dual opposed 12" subs, meaning each sub for sale have twin 12" woofers inside.

    The subs are both under 2yrs old and come with original boxes. Lowest I will take is $300ea or $575 for the pair. Two of these are perfect for nearly any sized room and absolutely slam. I am building twin 15's which is the only reason for selling. Contact me for pics.
    Man cave:
    120" screen
    Epson 8350 projector
    4 Tap Kegerator

    Audio:
    AVR: Onkyo 818
    Sub: SVS 25-31 PCi
    Fronts: RTi 8s
    Center: CSi5
    Surrounds: FXi 30s
    Rears: Monitor 50s
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  • aboroth00
    aboroth00 Posts: 1,106
    edited February 2014
    Sweets10v8 wrote: »
    Don't mean to hijack my own thread but this came up...

    Some Epik subs have issues with the amps. Epik has gone under mostly due to the amp issue so there's no warranty or service provider if your subs have issues. Epik was clearing out old inventory and seeing how many people were wronged by Epik (some guys still waiting for warranty claims), I've avoided even picking up their clearance items.

    If you want to pursue the Epik Legend route, ask the owner how old those subs are, how much heat those amps put out, and correlate it to when the bad batches of amps came out.
    2Ch Tube Audio Convert
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  • ROHfan
    ROHfan Posts: 1,014
    edited February 2014
    Sweets10v8 wrote: »
    No idea what those are, more to research.... Shakers under your seat?

    Absolutely. Attached to the underside of the sofa frame. Check out Aura Pro or Butt Kicker. I use Aura Pros and I love it. Real easy to drive, too.
    TV: 65" Samsung QLED 4K
    Fronts: Energy RC70 --- Center: Energy RC-LCR
    Front Heights: Polk RC65i --- Rears: Polk RC85i --- Sub: Power Sound Audio XS15
    Pioneer VSX-1120K --- Parasound HCA-1000A --- Oppo BDP-103
    Vincent Audio SA31 preamp --- Teac UD301 DAC
    AIYIMA Tube T7 preamp --- Nobsound 12AX7 tube preamplifier
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  • Sweets10v8
    Sweets10v8 Posts: 73
    edited February 2014
    Found an Svs 25-31 for $200. Seems reasonable for the $$$$.

    What's everyone think?
    Man cave:
    120" screen
    Epson 8350 projector
    4 Tap Kegerator

    Audio:
    AVR: Onkyo 818
    Sub: SVS 25-31 PCi
    Fronts: RTi 8s
    Center: CSi5
    Surrounds: FXi 30s
    Rears: Monitor 50s
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,779
    edited February 2014
    Sweets10v8 wrote: »
    Found an Svs 25-31 for $200. Seems reasonable for the $$$$.

    What's everyone think?

    If it's functional RUN DON'T WALK!!!!!
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  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 2,467
    edited February 2014
    ken brydson wrote: »
    If it's functional RUN DON'T WALK!!!!!

    Lol, Ken, you crack me up! Nice having you over the other day, great micro brew, thanks again!!
    Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2

    Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,779
    edited February 2014
    Geoff4rfc wrote: »
    Lol, Ken, you crack me up! Nice having you over the other day, great micro brew, thanks again!!

    Good times man, thanks for the invite.
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  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 2,467
    edited February 2014
    ken brydson wrote: »
    Good times man, thanks for the invite.

    Any time, in fact, I think you may have forgotten to get me that card for you lender. Looks like you'll need to come sample some more CD's to see if those A9's are really imaging as they appear :)
    Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2

    Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,779
    edited February 2014
    Geoff4rfc wrote: »
    Any time, in fact, I think you may have forgotten to get me that card for you lender. Looks like you'll need to come sample some more CD's to see if those A9's are really imaging as they appear :)

    Hehe. PM'd his info
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    edited February 2014
    ken brydson wrote: »
    If it's functional RUN DON'T WALK!!!!!

    Yessir that's a great deal. Even if the amp fails you can replace it and still have a great deal...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1     Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • Sweets10v8
    Sweets10v8 Posts: 73
    edited February 2014
    Ok, picking it soon! My wife isn't happy at all!! By the time I sell my klipsch sub 10, I'll have very little into this SVS sub. So since I'm so inexperienced;

    Can you rate rate 1 to 10 these subs just so I'll have a feel for what I'm getting and coming from??

    Klipsch sub 10

    svs 25-31
    Man cave:
    120" screen
    Epson 8350 projector
    4 Tap Kegerator

    Audio:
    AVR: Onkyo 818
    Sub: SVS 25-31 PCi
    Fronts: RTi 8s
    Center: CSi5
    Surrounds: FXi 30s
    Rears: Monitor 50s
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,779
    edited February 2014
    If its a 25-31 NSD it will crush the Klipsch. If it's a 25-31PCPlus it will pulverize it...
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited February 2014
    As far as the Epiks...$575 for two twin opposed subs? Not a bad deal but the amps are something to think about. Would for sure fill your room. However, think about why the guy is selling them....he's going with a DIY twin 15's project...hint :WINK:

    As far as the SVS...what are you waiting on? Get it! Is that the one posted on CL in OH? I just missed on of those on CL last month in the same town I work in. Was was looking for one of those for awhile before I gave up.
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited February 2014
    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_4/svs-25-31-pci-subwoofer-12-2002.html
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter