Advice on RTiA9 Set-up with Pioneer SC-68?

Scooterp7

tonyb wrote: »

Advice ? Never, ever....crank the volume even close to the maximum regardless. No, you won't hurt the speaker by feeding it more power, and I wouldn't bi-amp them, just hook up one channel per speaker and that's more than enough. Use those other channels of the amp on the surrounds.

Like he needed that amp to drive those surrounds! If an SC-68 can't drive that center, fxi's and R50's, why even spend the scratch for it. Al he needed was a 2 channel amp for the mains. He would have been just as well served with the BOTL Elite if he was going to amp all his channels.

Weren't you the one that said something about a waste of money!

F1nut

You may be a cheap **** and that's fine, but don't try to push your problems on me or anyone else here.

Inspector 24

Late to the party, Sorry to parrot everyone here but get a bigger amp been there done that they need an amp to truly shine. Otherwise you may be more satisfied with some smaller speakers perhaps the A7 or A5.

No experience with pro amps but at least get the Emotiva. Parasound, B&K, and many others are more preferred for the RTi series because they tend to be a little warmer and tone down the brightness of the RTI series.

cfrizz

Congratulations, enjoy your system. Now that you know/hear the difference, it will be hard for you to ever go back to just letting a receiver power your gear.

Some will just convince themselves that the receiver is up to the job, but that's because they either don't want to spend the money or simply no longer want to have so many pieces of gear to deal with.

Brithon

Scooterp7 wrote: »

Like he needed that amp to drive those surrounds! If an SC-68 can't drive that center, fxi's and R50's, why even spend the scratch for it. Al he needed was a 2 channel amp for the mains. He would have been just as well served with the BOTL Elite if he was going to amp all his channels.

Weren't you the one that said something about a waste of money!

I am fairly savvy when shopping for prices on audio equipment. I picked up the SC-68 from a local dealer, a display model for $1200 CAN (full warranty, even had all the propaganda stickers still on it) and got the 5 channel Parasound for about $825 CAN. So for under $1800 US, which would have easily been the cost of a decent amp alone, I did pretty good (even figuring in currency exchange audio equipment is priced much higher up here in general). The A9's were also on-sale for $798 for the pair brand new during a boxing day sale.

I am always looking for deals on decent stereo equipment. There are always sales on. Both the AVR and amp are quality gear and should have a decent lifespan. I have blown several mid range amps in the past, 2 HK's, a Kenwood and a Denon (Denon has seriously gone downhill in recent years and I wouldn't touch them with a 10 ft pole anymore). I have been impressed with both Yamaha and Pioneer and have yet to have anything go wrong with either of those brands. The Yami was hard to give up for my HT room but is hooked up to my gaming rig which is now going to benefit from a new hand me down Csi30.

Now it appears I am going to need a better sub, the PSW202 now seems like squeaking mouse in contrast to the A9's. Need to pull out those sale flyers!

Anyone have a good sub woofer recommendation that would compliment the mix?

tonyb

Velodyne, SVS, HSU, Rel, Revel......many more too, depends on your budget.

cfrizz

Check out Polks DSW line of subs they rock!

Scooterp7

Brithon wrote: »

I am fairly savvy when shopping for prices on audio equipment. I picked up the SC-68 from a local dealer, a display model for $1200 CAN (full warranty, even had all the propaganda stickers still on it) and got the 5 channel Parasound for about $825 CAN. So for under $1800 US, which would have easily been the cost of a decent amp alone, I did pretty good (even figuring in currency exchange audio equipment is priced much higher up here in general).

I just don't understand buying an AVR with that D3 amp, that will, for all intents and purposes, just sit there, unused.

Brithon wrote: »

Anyone have a good sub woofer recommendation that would compliment the mix?

If you have the savvy/time, build your own. Best value ever.

http://tcsounds.com/product/drivers/lms-ultra-5400/

WLDock

Scooterp7 wrote: »

I just don't understand buying an AVR with that D3 amp, that will, for all intents and purposes, just sit there, unused.

Well, he did use the amps for awhile...and at $1200 CAD that is not crazy as given the average price of audio over there vs. here in the US. he very well, could sell the SC-68 (For a good price to someone like myself. LOL!) and pick up a pre and two channel amp, but what would that cost?

tonyb

You don't understand ? Have you priced out a HT pre pro lately ? Also, if an amp channel goes bad, or needs to go in for repair, your not totally without music/movies as the receiver can be used as a backup. Another is resale value, people with no need for additional amps will be looking at receivers, a wider customer base to buy used gear.

Scooterp7

WLDock wrote: »

Well, he did use the amps for awhile...and at $1200 CAD that is not crazy as given the average price of audio over there vs. here in the US. he very well, could sell the SC-68 (For a good price to someone like myself. LOL!) and pick up a pre and two channel amp, but what would that cost?

I would've thought a 2 channel amp would have been plenty. He could have used the AVR for the rest.

Even a beefier 2 ch amp. At 220 WPC, the A9's could've handled much more. At the very least, just to have comfortable headroom.

WLDock

Yeah, I don't think Scooterp7 has though about the cost of a HT pre/pro with the features of the SC-68...what $2500 and up?

4xoddic

I respect the opinions of cfrizz, tonyb, & F1nut in regards to their usual amp recommendations. But I give more credence to Inspector 24 as an A9 owner who has scaled the Parasound ladder a # of times; & plateaued @ the HCA-3500 (350 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 8 Ω, both channels driven). Geoff4rfc's Emotiva XPA-2 monoblocks proved that venturing over the rated 500 watt point was worthwhile.

For my own pursuit, I knew the WAF limit was the #1 criteria. Having never parted with any piece of audio gear since ~ 1990; I knew the acceptance of moving up the power chain in increments was nonexistent. I fell short with my first pro amp purchase with the QSC-GX7 (never witnessed any variation in the "variable" fan's dB levels = she had no tolerance from her listening position). She could agree that the A9s sounded better w/> 700W.

The Yamaha P7000s is a big improvement, as the fan has never come on (typical report from in-home users). The 31-step Volume control knobs are set back 3 dBs. The clipping lights have never lit up.

I did a great deal of Googling for comments of actual Yamaha owners using the P-S series in their home audio chain. Naturally, I had to wade thru the comments of non-owner audiophiles along the way. Having owned a Yamaha integrated amp from 1972-1990; and receivers from 98 - 2009; I was convinced of the company's engineering efforts.

Yamaha states of its EEEngine Topology:

"With the final output stage operating at Class AB, the output signal is of remarkably high sound quality. The signal remains analog from input to output, without being converted to a PWM signal. There is none of the deterioration of frequency response and damping factor found with Class D systems. Plus, EEEngine is designed to operate perfectly while keeping the power amplifier heat generation to a minimum, regardless of the load requirements. All together, you get Class AB sound quality with efficiency that matches Class D."

And I must admit that my next likely audiophile purchase will be hearing aids . . . . should I find fault with my P7000S, I will come back with my tail tucked between my legs.

Brithon

cfrizz wrote: »

Check out Polks DSW line of subs they rock!

How is the DSWPRO550 or DSWPRO660? Any owners with feedback?

Scooterp7

WLDock wrote: »

Yeah, I don't think Scooterp7 has though about the cost of a HT pre/pro with the features of the SC-68...what $2500 and up?

No....., I'm pretty sure my position on this is that an SC-68 should be up to the task of driving surrounds. (Especially those listed by the OP).

I just think that the 5-ch amp was not necessary, and a higher rated (WPC) 2 ch. may have been a better option.

Brithon

Scooterp7 wrote: »

No....., I'm pretty sure my position on this is that an SC-68 should be up to the task of driving surrounds. (Especially those listed by the OP).

I just think that the 5-ch amp was not necessary, and a higher rated (WPC) 2 ch. may have been a better option.

I shudder to think about what those speakers would capable of with more power. The HT is in a basement rec room and at 2/3 volume you can still feel bass throbbing up to the third floor bedroom. Must be window shattering at 300W+.

Scooterp7

Brithon wrote: »

I shudder to think about what those speakers would capable of with more power. The HT is in a basement rec room and at 2/3 volume you can still feel bass throbbing up to the third floor bedroom. Must be window shattering at 300W+.

Well with the decibel -- wattage rule, it might not be insanely loud, but you'd draw some attention to yourself.

Hermitism

Brithon wrote: »

at 2/3 volume you can still feel bass throbbing...

The general rule around here is that you shouldn't turn the volume up past 50%. If you have to, your amp isn't powerful enough. You always want clean power. At 2/3 volume you are probably getting close to sending a clipping signal to your speakers. The 50% rule is just a cautious safety tip to prevent distortion and/or damage.

HDTVAV

F1nut wrote: »

There isn't an AVR made that will drive those speakers properly, even the Pioneer Elite SC series. So, adding an amp isn't a bad idea, but not the one you mentioned. An inherently bright amp and bright speakers are not a good match.

Not only do you need active crossovers, you need separate amps, each with its own power supply not the shared power supply in ALL AVR's. Bottom line, you can't bi-amp with an AVR. Something you can do to improve the sound is to replace the stock plate jumpers with high quality speaker cable.

Now I was told that the RTi A series were NOT bright speakers...?

Reading quite a few posts on here that state otherwise...

Inspector 24

They're on the bright side, speaking of their tonal quality. Often described as very 'forward' sounding, not laid back. It's not a bad thing. Hell, I've had some people hear them and say they're not bright enough for their likes. That said, they calm down with lots of power from a warm amp like a Parasound, a warm pre/pro helps too. And room treatments. Lots of nasty reflections make them worse.

That said, I enjoy mine for what they are and look forward to upgrading to some LSiM's for music only use.

HDTVAV

Inspector 24 wrote: »

They're on the bright side, speaking of their tonal quality. Often described as very 'forward' sounding, not laid back. It's not a bad thing. Hell, I've had some people hear them and say they're not bright enough for their likes. That said, they calm down with lots of power from a warm amp like a Parasound, a warm pre/pro helps too. And room treatments. Lots of nasty reflections make them worse.

That said, I enjoy mine for what they are and look forward to upgrading to some LSiM's for music only use.

The LSiMs are more musical...?

Inspector 24

Generally yes. They're more defined, smoother, lots better things going on for them than the RTi's

That said, I REALLY enjoy my A9's for everything they are, and when I listen to other people's gear, I'm not usually very impressed, though it's likely because of poor amplification and setup.

If you want to jump in head first go for LSiM's and good amplification, if you want to get your feet wet start lower on the totem pole. RTi's are a good place to start.

Oh, and search search search, TONS of Info on the RTi's and the LSiM's. search my user name, I've posted a lot of experiences with the A9's. If you have more questions...start your own thread. :razz:

Inspector 24

I feel silly, I didn't read the thread and posted AFTER you purchased the Parasound, WAY TO GO! That's a fantastic amp! While I haven't owned it, the specs are VERY similar to the HCA-2003A which was the point where I REALLY noticed what the A9's could do, the thump in your chest, couch starting to vibrate, you realize these are not small speakers and with power they can sound pretty big!

Now it appears I am going to need a better sub, the PSW202 now seems like squeaking mouse in contrast to the A9's. Need to pull out those sale flyers!

Anyone have a good sub woofer recommendation that would compliment the mix?

I went from one, then two, PSW 505's, added a PSW650 and was never satisfied with the Bass they were putting out, I would never use the for music as they took away from what the A9's were doing so well. Sure, they'd put out some thump, but to do it they called attention to themselves more than I liked so I kept them turned down a bit, consequently on more than one occasion failed to notice the PSW505's were turned on as the A9's do so well on their own for movies! That all changed with the HSU-VTF-15h. Almost instantly I loved how it blended effortlessly with the A9's, and I no longer had subs that called attention to themselves, now it just sounds like the A9's are doing everything, I only hear music, and feel explosions, no longer do I 'hear' subwoofers!

It seems that with good power the A9's are so capable on their own that you need a big sub to properly compliment them. A little sub just can't keep up. Of course my room is quite large, 5,000+cuft, and I can't corner load the sub (results sucked) so in a smaller room with corner loading as an option YMMV. If you do go the big sub route, HSU VTF-15 is probably your biggest bang for the buck. SVS and Rhythmic are the next best options for a bit more money, though many people say for the price of one SVS PB-13 ultra, you can buy two VFT-15's, and two subs is almost always better than one.

So I bought two.

ZLTFUL

Scooterp7 wrote: »

No....., I'm pretty sure my position on this is that an SC-68 should be up to the task of driving surrounds. (Especially those listed by the OP).

I just think that the 5-ch amp was not necessary, and a higher rated (WPC) 2 ch. may have been a better option.

Aren't you the one preaching "overhead"?

Don't get me wrong, nobody *needs* 200+wpc for their surrounds, but when a plane flies from back to front of the scene, I always get a sense of satisfaction when my guests **** themselves because it sounds like a plane is coming through the walls.

Geoff4rfc

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Aren't you the one preaching "overhead"?

Don't get me wrong, nobody *needs* 200+wpc for their surrounds, but when a plane flies from back to front of the scene, I always get a sense of satisfaction when my guests **** themselves because it sounds like a plane is coming through the walls.

LOL, I can relate!!! with FXiA6's as surrounds paired with a pair of A9's in the rear.....you are in the middle of an explosion :biggrin:

cfrizz

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Aren't you the one preaching "overhead"?

Don't get me wrong, nobody *needs* 200+wpc for their surrounds, but when a plane flies from back to front of the scene, I always get a sense of satisfaction when my guests **** themselves because it sounds like a plane is coming through the walls.

LOL so true! It's a blast watching someone twitch & duck when a big boom goes off over their head, then turn around and glare at my back speakers! ROTFLOL!